ipod touches.

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  • #595609

    i am here
    Member

    What do you think of a high school kid having an ipod touch!and why?

    #757575

    mewho
    Participant

    i play scrabble with a cousin that is in high school.by the way , she is winning the present game we have going.

    long as things are controlled there should not be any harm in having it.

    #757576

    i am here
    Member

    just wondering bec of all the apps

    #757577

    pumper
    Member

    I was wondering the same thing- except I am not a high school girl anymore! I have an old ipod nano, which I just use for songs, but an ipod touch opens a whole new arena of possibilities… I am trying to decide if it is something that is inappropriate for a frum girl.

    Any ideas?

    #757578

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Doesn’t an ipod touch have wifi, and therefore unfiltered internet?

    #757579

    LemonySnicket
    Participant

    You can have someone set up a password that blocks you from downloading apps or accessing the internet.

    #757580

    i am here
    Member

    Its possible to get past the internet through the app store with different apps to other things besides for locking the internet. By connecting to someones else’s wifi.

    #757581

    BasYisroel94
    Participant

    LemonySnicket, you beat me to it!

    I don’t have internet on my iPod touch, because I, personally, don’t like the idea of having constant internet ‘On The Go.’ And, if truly necessary, you can download apps via iTunes off the computer, no need for iPod wifi 🙂

    But if you find it an issue, block it!

    Otherwise, I’d also be interested to hear what others have to say on the matter 🙂

    #757582

    ZachKessin
    Member

    I have an ipod touch, it does have wifi, you can put a filter app on it (I think, never tried). Use mine mostly for music and podcasts and some streaming radio as well.

    #757583

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Can you have it set up to block most internet but allow certain sites?

    #757584

    ZachKessin
    Member

    Honestly I have no idea. Never tried.

    #757585

    I have an ipod touch and I use the extended password option. My wife has half the password and I have the other half. Under the restrictions option you can turnoff wifi. You can also block turn off you tube and the internet browser app called safari. You can download the free k9 filtered browser from the app store. You can also set restrictions on apps, tv shows and movies, or turn them off totally.

    All of these protections are the minimum for a frum person. That being said why should a teenager have their own device, it is such an incredible time waster.

    On the other hand it can be a very useful and powerful tool when used properly. For the music and shiurim, you can get many other mp3 players. Even if all of the internet issues were taken care of, I think the temptation to waste too much time is too great.

    #757586

    I have an ipod touch. You can lock it down really well through the parental controls. I have Safari turned off, which is the basic (unmonitored) browser and I have a browser called Mobicip installed which tracks every site that is visited. You can log into their website and see what was visited on the ipod. It also blocks sites that you would want blocked by category and also any specific ones you whitelist or blacklist. But that’s only if you want internet use like that, if you don’t want it at all just block Safari and it’s gone.

    Aside from internet use, you can turn off the app store if you wish, or require a password to install programs. A new feature I like sets it so you need a password to DELETE applications. Which could be good for someone who likes to install games/apps regularly but still wants the accountability. There also rating restrictions that can be enabled for both apps, music and podcasts.

    I was surprised at just how much you can lock the device down if you wish to. Hope that helps!

    #757587

    Grandmaster
    Member

    The better question is how quickly can a tech savvy kid (like so many are or have friends that are) beat or even remove any or all of the above restrictions?

    Even if the parent can determine ex post facto that the kid messed around with the settings, who knows what terrible dangers the kid already exposed him or herself to. And then they may be able to cover their tracks (i.e. resetting what they disabled or reinstalling what they removed) altogether, and the less tech savvy parent may never even know.

    #757588

    @grandmaster – There’s no way around the parental controls. I work in tech and keep up with these things. The only thing you could do is reset the ipod to factory settings, but it would be obvious that you did so.

    #757589

    PapaBear
    Member

    The “Touch” is the biggest distraction cause of all the possible games etc. Get the “Classic” instead.

    #757590

    Grandmaster
    Member

    Sean, and if he resets to factory settings are parents constantly checking it to notice that occurred? And if they do and the child excuses it with a lame excuse (i.e. it stopped working properly), will all the parents take it away? And if they do, what about the irreversible danger that occurred until then?

    #757591

    guy-ocho
    Member

    sean: i hate to be so blunt. But i know many kids, who at the age of 12-15 who have bypassed every single restriction on the ipod touch. it took them less than a week to figure out. Don’t be fooled into thinking you can block anything on it.

    #757592

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    someone in BP, Sean Ben Noach,

    Thanks for the info. I was wondering about Grandmaster’s issue as well, regarding resetting to factory settings. Will that reinstall the browser, or can you totally uninstall the browser so that even resetting won’t leave an internet enabled device?

    #757593

    i am here
    Member

    why would someone then want an ipod touch once all these things are disabled?

    #757594

    Grandmaster
    Member

    Get him a plain MP3 player. Not an iPod.

    #757595

    s2021
    Member

    Warning. Warning. Danger. Danger. Danger.

    #757596

    I had to comment on this. I tried to refrain,but I’m sorry,I couldn’t.

    Where is the trust you all have,in yourselves,and in your h.s.kids?

    Must you block yourselves out of your own ” toy “? Then don’t buy the toy to begin with. My kids are all not h.s. Age,and each one has thier own computer and cell phone. They are all unblocked. But I TRUST THEM. and they know that if they mess up,they will lose my trust,and it will take very long to get it back,not to mention,to get back the device that I would take away if they mess up with it.

    People,have faith in the kids you are raising,and in yourselves. It’s not good to totally shelter yourselves and kids. Allow freedom,within reason. It’s a known fact that if you stifle and ” choke” your kids,then it is much easier for them to rebel.

    Let’s just be normal!

    #757598

    s2021
    Member

    esther

    I would not give out free matchboxes (we can do so many mitzvos with fire!! wow!! baruch hashm!!) to my children and call setting up boundries “stifling them”

    U may have faith in ur kids, but please dont have faith in the internet.

    #757599

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    have faith in the kids you are raising,and in yourselves

    ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????

    #757600

    shuli
    Participant

    ester hamalka, i compltely agree with you. my parents r like that and i am in high school. i have access to the internet on my laptop. noone checks the history because i have a password. my parents TRUST ME!

    i also agree with what you said about “choking” kids. it all backfires.

    #757601

    guy-ocho
    Member

    I think giving unfiltered internet to anyone is a crime and assur mideoraisa. This is sort of hypocritical of me , as i have unfiltered internet on my iPod touch, but my comment still holds true

    #757602

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    shuli and estherhamalka,

    So do you think Chazal were wrong?

    #757603

    grada
    Member

    guy-ocho

    everything that Hashem created has a good side and a bad side. Giving someone internet isn’t asur deoriesah bc there is so much good that can come fromthe internet, there are many ‘toradick’ sites that are very useful for a jewish person, so dont be so quick to say asur

    #757604

    grada
    Member

    i agree with you COMLETELY eastherhamalka. there is trust that has to exist between a parent and a child or the child will always feel like he/she is being disciplined whenin fact they never did anything

    #757605

    Pashuteh Yid
    Member

    No kids should have unfiltered internet. Everybody thinks my kid is such a little angel, and won’t do anything wrong. Unless your kid has something physically wrong with him r”l, he or she will have a yetzer hara that can easily get out of control.

    There is plenty for them to do without being on an unfiltered device. They will not die of boredom. Try books, hobbies, sports, chesed projects, etc.

    #757606

    Where is the trust you all have,in yourselves,and in your h.s.kids?

    Must you block yourselves out of your own ” toy “? Then don’t buy the toy to begin with. My kids are all not h.s. Age,and each one has thier own computer and cell phone. They are all unblocked. But I TRUST THEM.

    You should trust them! But make sure they not to trust them to ever spend a minute out of your house. Not at their grandparents, not in camp an no sleepovers. Just bring the unfiltered street/world to them!

    #757607

    Certain filters can be downloaded unto “smartphones” even though the connection is through wifi or the phone company. Matzav is on mine

    #757608

    Grandmaster
    Member

    Children can “factory reset” the phone or disable the filters. By time you realize, anything could have happened.

    #757609

    grada
    Member

    none of you have any respect or trust in your children. If I didnt know any better id think ur talking about a bunch of convicted felons. “By the time you realize, anything could have happened”. like what they gonna rob a bank. come on have a little trust in you kids.

    #757610

    Grandmaster
    Member

    To reiterate Daas Yochid’s citation from Pirkei Avos:

    ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????

    Don’t trust in yourself, until the day of your death.

    #757611

    bezalel
    Participant

    So do you think Chazal were wrong?

    Chazal mean that I shouldn’t trust myself, not that I shouldn’t trust someone else.

    #757612

    grada:

    Can you believe this scene. I saw parents not allowing their toddlers to play outside by themselves. And you know what, well, these are my thoughts to them:

    none of you have any respect or trust in your children. If I didnt know any better id think ur talking about a bunch of convicted felons. “By the time you realize, anything could have happened”. like what they gonna rob a bank. come on have a little trust in you kids.

    #757613

    Grandmaster
    Member

    Chazal mean that I shouldn’t trust myself, not that I shouldn’t trust someone else.

    Are you kidding? You can’t trust yourself with the danger, but Chazal would say you can trust your children with it?

    #757614

    bezalel
    Participant

    Are you kidding? You can’t trust yourself with the danger, but Chazal would say you can trust your children with it?

    Actually when it comes to others Chazal say “Judge all men favorably”.

    I never stated my position on teenagers having an iPod touch (although if you look through the archives you might find my opinion on the matter).

    #757615

    Grandmaster
    Member

    A. We are not talking about judging; we are talking about trusting. The Chazal cited by DY discusses trusting.

    B. We are not talking about men; we are talking about children.

    #757616

    shuli
    Participant

    this is going so back and forth. maybe we should just agree everyone has their own things to go by.

    #757617

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    this is going so back and forth. maybe we should just agree everyone has their own things to go by.

    I agree. I go by the Torah, and you go by your yetzer hora.

    I know I’m being sharp here, but my point is that the “back and forth” here has really been about some people’s own thoughts vs. Chazal’s clear dictates (as applied by our contemporary gedolim).

    #757618

    Grandmaster
    Member

    this is going so back and forth. maybe we should just agree everyone has their own things to go by.

    You mean some people go with Chazal and some folks do their own thing?

    #757619

    guy-ocho
    Member

    Grada: i specifically said “unfiltered” Internet is assur. I never said I think there is a problem if there is a filter

    #757620

    it is completely assur!!!!!!!!!! if you know whats good for your child dont do it!!!!!!!!!!!! it has the potential to ruin him and his marriage!!!!!!!!

    IM WARNING YOU! ITSNOT A JOKE!!! DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    and if you think that you r a bad parent for not giving it to your kid, you r a MUCH WORSE PARENT if you give it to him

    #757621

    I know this thread is going nowhere quick but I was involved in the beginning and wanted to follow up as I was away for the weekend.

    You can’t disable the ipod restrictions if they are properly set unless they reset the ipod, or they figure out your passcode. If you have proof otherwise, I would love to see it, but I’m confident it doesn’t exist. If you know what you’re doing locking it down, internet will absolutely be restricted as much as you want it to be.

    Would I know if my child reset the ipod? Absolutely I would, but I realize not everyone is as technologically inclined. And if you wanted to take it one step further, have your ipod sync to an itunes on a computer username that only you have the password to, so if they tried to sneak on the computer and reloaded all the programs back on to a fresh install, they wouldn’t be able to.

    #757622

    pumper
    Member

    If you seriously think that by giving your kids free access to the internet, you are showing them that you trust them, and all will be well, you are sticking your head into the sand. Do you know what is going on out there? Kids from good, frum families are going off the derech because they had access to unfiltered internet. Don’t tell me that they would have found a way to go off either way. By giving them internet in the comfort of their own home, you are inviting them to stray. It is true, they may go to friends houses or the library if there is no internet in your home, but at least it is not so accessible to them!

    Kids crave boundaries and stability. They test the rules to see what they could get away with, but if there are no rules, they feel lost. Having filtered internet or no internet at all is not telling your kids that you don’t trust them. It is showing them that you are a family that listens to the words of the gedolim, because they know better than us. If you think that by going against the psak of the gedolim, you are giving your children a feeling of trust, you are sorely mistaken and I feel very sorry for you.

    #757623

    Pashuteh Yid
    Member

    I wanted to clarify that when I said no kid should have an unfiltered internet device, I mean that on a personal computer the internet should be filtered.

    But as far as portable devices, THE KID SHOULD NOT HAVE ONE AT ALL.

    Which parent is going to monitor his kids device everyday to see if he reset it or installed something that will bypasss the filter?

    Why on earth does a kid need one? Aside from the obvious problems of issurim, he will never develop a proper cheshek for learning and Mitzvos. One needs to concentrate on learning and schoolwork with a full heart and mind and with no distractions in order to succeed.

    I don’t give my kids cell phones until after they graduate HS and go away to an out of town Yeshiva or Seminary where they really need one.

    #757624

    guy-ocho
    Member

    You can bypass every single filter and restriction on the iPod touch without reseting it to factory conditions. One way is if you upgrade to a newer firmware, it is impossible to know it was upgraded. Another way is to go into parental controls and put a temporary restore for Internet. It does not require the password for this, and you can put it back exactly how it was before without anyone (no matter their tech. skills) being able to know about it. Sean Ben Noach: I am also a tech. advisor and senior computer programmer. I have written and decodified hundreds of programs and am proficient in HTML, c++, .NET, Java and many other operating platforms. I can honestly tell you, that there is no fool-proof way to restrict Internet on an iPod touch. I own one myself and constantly play around with the parental controls. I an giving you the benefit of the doubt by saying you are uninformed and not naive. Feel free to tell me if you think

    I’m wrong.

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