October 10, 2011 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #599883
I heard from R’Shiffenbaur Shlita that there are a few factors:
1) The type of string your using (he said a shiur on this which I missed so I’m not sure exactly what type is ok)
2)The problem of the schach being kavua. If one ties it to poles its set in & succah must be temporary. I think that was from the Chazon Ish tz”l.
Therefore there is a machlokes as to how to go about this:
a) You can tie it loosely (which I believe actually defeats the purpose)
b) Halacha always has an alternative which is tie it in a bow so it can always be opened
May you all have a great Yom Tov & a Chag Kasher V’sameach!!!October 10, 2011 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #816113HaLeiViParticipant
Why are you tying it? If the Schach stays well in normal weather and you tying a string around it in case of strong winds, that is perfectly fine. Just don’t tie it down hard.October 10, 2011 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #816114LeiderLeider…Participant
Thanks YW for bringing up this subject.
I’d like to hear more about this from the Oilem, please. I personally tie it very loosely, only in order to prevent it from going flying in a super-strong wind. Otherwise it indeed doesn’t serve the purpose of holding the schach down.
Basically, it doesn’t hold the schach down in a “ruach metzuah”, but it does so in a “ruach she’aino metzuah”, and therefore is permissable.
Now, these were kind of my own conclusions. Am I correct?October 10, 2011 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #816115
Basically, it doesn’t hold the schach down in a “ruach metzuah”, but it does so in a “ruach she’aino metzuah”, and therefore is permissable
i had this shaila and asked a Posek
he answered as you yourself concluded
and as haleivi stated.
although he said if possible i should use lulav leaves to tie it down, which i was unable to do.October 10, 2011 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #816116bein_hasdorimParticipant
M-80 you took the words outta my mouth. You can use your extra
lulav rings for the s’chach.October 10, 2011 8:37 pm at 8:37 pm #816117Israeli ChareidiParticipant
The main problem is that there is a g’zeira not to support/hold (ma’amad) the schach with something that is itself not kosher schach because chaza”l were afraid you will come to rely on that item for schach itself. They did, however, allow one to support the supports (ma’amad d’ma’amad) with such an item.
In general, string, cable-ties, wire, etc. cannot be used to support the schach and therefore if one isonly concerned with an abnormal wind so he may loosely tie it as it is not actually doing the job of supporting the schach during normal conditions.
If one is concerned that a regular wind will blow off the schach then this would not be permissible. There are 2 solutions to this problem:
a) Use the “woody” string that they use for holding together the schach mats – sometimes sold seperately. It is a meterial that is technically kosher for schach. This is cheap but not that strong.
b) Place wooden supports directly on top of the schach in the same place as the supports under the schach with the schach sandwiched in between. Now you can tie the upper and lower supports together with whatever you want as this is ma’amad d’ma’amad.
P.S. According to the Chazon Ish, one should preferably not rely on ma’amad d’ma’amad. But it is kosher nevertheless. (He would have made a brocho in a “non-Chazon Ish” sukka.)October 10, 2011 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #816118LeiderLeider…Participant
Thanks allOctober 10, 2011 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #816119
Thanx all commentators.
HaLeiVi: You’re 100% right which is what i said.
Regards to the poles, I heard it’s better to tie it to the wood planks which hold up the schach.
I have a new shaila which I got asked today.
Someone got a psak that if one ties his succah to his house/garage its mutar. But if you put a stake in the ground and attach string from stake to succah that is assur. Why??? Isn’t it a kol shkein?
Also, if a succah is perfectly kosher in a house & you have a sliding roof. If anything thats more permanent? so then the stake should definitely mutar? to me it makes sense…October 10, 2011 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #816120
im totally guessing here
im an am haaretz in regard to these Halachos
maybe because the house is considered karka
and the stake is a cli?October 10, 2011 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #816121
i hear. also the stake is metal & house idk if whole problem is kavua…October 10, 2011 10:17 pm at 10:17 pm #816122
i dont think kavua is the problem, i think kavua is a problem in re to the Schach not the SuccahOctober 10, 2011 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #816123
my brother posted itOctober 10, 2011 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #816124Sam2Participant
AIC: Rav Schacther holds that everyone reads that Chazon Ish of Ma’amad D’ma’amad wrong and that it would be okay.
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