January 22, 2012 12:12 am at 12:12 am #601731
One of the blogs i follow posted about the following question. i firgured i’d ask it here to see a variety of opinion.
Are the scientific parts of the gemara (ignoring the controversy of their accuracy) or any other sefer still considered Talmud Torah? In regard to chiyuv talmud torah, or whether its assur to take sefer of the Rambam on medicine into the bathroom etc… things like that.
any ideas?January 22, 2012 9:10 am at 9:10 am #865868sam4321Participant
Yes it is(see Sefer Nefesh Hachaim Shar daled).January 22, 2012 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #865869
Shar 4 doesn’t address teh second question, which I believe is muttar.January 22, 2012 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #865870yahudMember
are you doubting if a part of gemara is torah!!??!!January 22, 2012 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #865871oomisParticipant
If it is in the Gemarah, it is Talmud Torah.January 22, 2012 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #865872☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
If it is in the Gemarah, it is Talmud Torah.
That’s what I told my 6th grade rebbe when he caught me with a Batman comic inside my Bava Metziah. He didn’t buy it.January 22, 2012 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #865873
yahud: shaar blatt?January 22, 2012 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #865874
I am inclined to paraphrase Saul Lieberman here.January 22, 2012 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #865875lebidik yankelParticipant
My humble opinion is that what you call science is not so. In many things Chazal did not know the truth, yet the Torah was intended to be codified and fashioned into a practical Torah, halkacha lemeisa, which is impossible unless one takes a stand about the scientific truth of what is happening. Hence we have treifos that live just fine, and others, that die, yet are not considered treifos. This ought not to be considered an error; it is the effect of Hashem telling fallible humans to codify the Torah. Such is Hashem’s will. (Chazon Ish. He elaborates that there was even a certain period to do this codifying; the two thousand years of Torah, he calls them)
So I would say that there is no science in the gemara; it is instead “halachik science”, an auxiliary to Torah.
The Rambam on health, however, is not Torah.January 22, 2012 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #865876
yitayningwut: Please do.January 23, 2012 12:02 am at 12:02 am #865877
Itche – Lol, do you know which quote I am referring to?January 23, 2012 2:50 am at 2:50 am #865878
lol +1 for daas yochid.
and yahud: if its purely scientific than its a just a saying from someone, albeit a very great someone, who lived over a thousand years ago. Why is something kadosh just because Ravina/Rav Ashi decided it should be published in Talmd Bavli?January 23, 2012 4:15 am at 4:15 am #865879Sam2Participant
Yankel: We don’t hold like that Chazon Ish on “2000 years of Torah”. We hold using a microwave on Shabbos is Bishul D’Oraisa.January 23, 2012 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #865880
Sam2 – Who’s “we”?January 23, 2012 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #865881lebidik yankelParticipant
Sam2: That’s because the criterion for bishul was formulated as anything that is standard bishul, derech bishul (although many achronim still feel that only fire is truly derech bishul, and microwaves are not d’oraisa…)
However about other things like bugs in fruits and treifos and killing lice on shabbos, chazal used contemporary knowledge and that is what is binding even today.January 23, 2012 9:09 pm at 9:09 pm #865882longarekelMember
gubbish: if ravina/rav ashi decided to include something in the gemara, it is kadosh. period.January 23, 2012 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #865883
longarekel: Define kadosh.January 23, 2012 11:44 pm at 11:44 pm #865884
why? (this is especially applicable to those rationalists with the belief that the gemara could be misinformed on certain issues, but even according to non-rationalists, it is still a question)January 24, 2012 1:38 am at 1:38 am #865885
Itche – The one about mysticism.April 4, 2012 9:39 pm at 9:39 pm #865886KozovMember
Shu”t Tzafnas Paneach Chelek 1 S 14: “The remedies mentioned in the Gemara (though nowadays not applicable) are a part of the Torah Shebal peh.”
As opposed to his medical books (you could read them in the bathroom), the specific instructions in Hilchos Deios Ch. 4 come from the Gemara (migdal oz, malbim, hagahos bnei binyomin, tzaf”p).
(But thats besides the point because even if not it still is bigeder Torah that you can’t read in the bathroom. See Lechem Mishna Hilchos Talmud Torah 4:1 and the end of the Rambam’s hakdomo.)
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