July 18, 2011 3:49 am at 3:49 am #786535WIYMember
“It is a basic tenet of Judaism (and there are also scores of examples in Jewish history and literature) that ANY evildoer can repent and achieve atonement for his sins however many or degraded they are.
Except Acher, of course.”
Everyone can do Teshuvah and even Acher was able to do Teshuvah, the Bas Kol was a Nisayon for him and he was not supposed to listen to it. Had he done Teshuvah it would have been accepted. Even one who has done things that are Chayyiv Kareis can do Teshuvah and be forgiven. However we must remember that Teshuvah isnt as simple as saying “Im sorry.” We throw around the word Teshuvah not recognizing that it requires absolute sincerity and a real change in the person. Nobody can fool Hashem.July 18, 2011 3:54 am at 3:54 am #786536☕️coffee addictParticipant
the Coffee guy???
oh so now i’m Colombian? 🙂July 18, 2011 3:56 am at 3:56 am #786538☕️coffee addictParticipant
Wolf – “The bas kol said that Acher’s teshuva would not be acceptable.”
that’s what acher heard that doesn’t mean that’s correct (a person can interpret a bas kol however he likes and that’s how he interpreted it)July 18, 2011 5:06 am at 5:06 am #786539bombmaniacParticipant
idk where you people get your “facts” regarding this case…i can guarantee you my source is better than yours…July 18, 2011 6:30 am at 6:30 am #786540YW Moderator-42Moderator
A person who is told by 2 eidim, “don’t kill or we will put you to death” and kills anyway is the only case where beis din actually gives the death penalty. Would you consider such a person “sane”? Why couldn’t he at least wait until the next day when the eidim are gone? The Torah obviously considers such a person to be a rasha, not a shoteh. Everyone has a yetzer hara. Some people allow the yetzer hara to control them and they can do horrendous things. This makes them evil, not insane
That said, it still could be that Levi Aron is insane, but don’t use his crime as proof.July 18, 2011 6:34 am at 6:34 am #786541JamParticipant
He is NOT crazy.
He is Cruel, Evil, Wicked, Hideous, Repulsive, Ruthless and Monstrous.
I dont like when people refer to him as crazy, because a crazy person is not accountable for his actions- and this monster definitely is!
Someone who is truly diagnosed as psychotic is not capable of driving a car, paying a dental bill, responsibly coming on time to work, or disposing a body in an ORGANIZED fashion.July 18, 2011 9:08 am at 9:08 am #786542shev143Member
Mr. Aron was NOT CRAZY. He was a sad and lonely individual.
Those who knew of him are responisble for not befriending him and inviting him to a shabbos meal.July 18, 2011 11:38 am at 11:38 am #786543mikehall12382Member
What about needing to have teshuva accepted by the parents/family since the crime robbed them of their child. This component of teshuva would probably never be attained.
I’m sure he will be punished beyond the scope of any our imagination and deservedly so..he is a hanious monster and there is nothing redeemable about him. His savage act goes beyond human itelect.
The heavenly court will see to his punishment and I hope it is the most severe yid or not…July 18, 2011 11:58 am at 11:58 am #786544on the ballParticipant
Wolf – ok so Acher’s Tshuva may have not been accepted but he did attain atonement. The point I had been trying to make still stands: No Jew is ever beyond hope completely.
So please no more ‘Yimach Shmo’s and suchlike. If Aron was sane then his act was pure evil (and in the time of Chazal with witnesses, Sanhedrin etc. he would be executed). But he’s still a Jew.
He is obligated to perform mitzvos like any Jew.
He can marry a Jewish woman like any Jew.
If he is a Kohen then his sons can serve in the Beis Hamikdosh.
And if he does proper Teshuva – then we are commanded to love him like any Jew.
Everything else is between him and G-d.July 18, 2011 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #786545BabishkaParticipant
Is he “crazy”? There is legally insane and then there is being diagnosed with a mental illness. Many people with a mental illness are nevertheless considered competent to stand trial. There is no doubt that Levi Aron will be examined by a team of expert forensic psychiatrists who will determine his competence.July 18, 2011 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #786546bombmaniacParticipant
by the way the criteria for not guilty by reason of insanity is basically that he genuinely did not know that what he did was wrong at the time of the crime. its remarkably hard to prove. the only reason people get so hung up on it is because of the media. news…movies…TV…etc…overhype the idea of not guilty by reason of insanity.
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