Is trump really immoral

Would you want him do be a role model for your children?

The only reason Trump is president is because of his fame or “persona”

For years he cultivated himself as a brash, say what you want to get it, bullying businessman who gets it done regardless of what it takes. In the Art of the deal he (or his ghost writer) brags about how he enjoys lying hype up the value of what he is selling . He doesnt believe in Truth the way most of us do. Sure Politicians lie, but Trump’s persona is built on repeating a lie often enoughand brazenly enough that people arent so sure anymore.
He ushered in the era of “alternative facts” and “fake news” as Trump explained ““You know why I do it? I do it to discredit you all and demean you all so that when you write negative stories about me, no one will believe you.” It isnt about truth if a story is negative he doesn’t want you to believe it it is “fake”

That is who he is, that isnt something that happened 20-30 years ago that is his very being.

To a lesser extent there is his objectifying women (including his own daughter on a radio show that isn’t worthy of mention) , demonizing those who fall from favor . Again these arent specific events from years ago that is who he is. People don’t change at age 70 .

But the main reason (in my view) is the first.

Every goy is immoral.

Reb Eliezer, you shouldn’t want ANY goy to be a role model for your children.

To elaborate a bit more

words have to have meaning in order for society to function.
for example when a poster says Democrats support “infanticide” When called out on that falsehood, its one thing to say “dont be such a stickler” I was exagerating/using hyperbole to make a point, of course it isnt true. Fine I m ok with that reasonable people can disagree on what falls in to acceptable hyperbole.

but when he doubles down and insists on the lie being true, THAT is the problem . not everybody is able to discern the difference .

Trumps’ entire persona is built on telling people what they want to hear. As his writer quotes him in The art of the deal “Truthful hyperbole”

Reb Eliezer – he let Rubashkin out of jail. That’s not embelmetic of someone “without empathy”.

I strongly disagree with Joseph. I believe that there are plenty of moral non-jews. Their standards might not be up to Joseph’s, but he shouldn’t demean people in a public forum.

Define immoral. Whereas once he was a (“borderline”) honest businessman, he has gone out and now associates full time with persons of known dubious ethics (Pirke Avos discusses this class of persons, they are easy to identify since they formally refer to themselves as “the Honorable …., with some title reflect their official position). His political positions are all very conventional (and many were Democratic positions back when he was a Democrat, such as opposition to free trade and immigration), and while his lack of derekh eretz in use of social media may be a problem, I would hardly call that “immoral.”

While in “intimate” matters he have done a lot of things (especially when younger) that would be unacceptable if he was a Yid, he is a genuine goy (half German, half Scots, no known Jewish ancestry). We tend to ignore what goyim do in bed if it doesn’t affect us (they don’t ask for our hecksher).

In terms of political leaders we judge them by their policies as they affect us, and in this respect, Trump is probably among the best American presidents, ever (from our perspective, I would put Washington first expanding the concept of religious tolerance to include Jews, and Trump tied for second with Truman).

Trump wants to please his family, so Israel, Rabashkin was all family influence but he personally has no empathy. The proof is the children at the boarder, removing children from CHIP and from SNAP.

KY

“immoral usually referrs to arayos related”
I’m not sure what limited definition you are using (though even in that regard he is guilty he bragged about trying to be with a married woman for crying out loud)

Oxfor defines Immorality as “not conforming to accepted standards of morality.”

and to avoid using a word in its definition
they define morality as “principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.”

It is in no way limited to arayos. That is the least of his problems (I agree with akuperma on this , though he is lacking there too more than the typical politician, and its not like it was once years ago, he has a decades long pattern of making depraved comments including about his own daughter)

If you are looking for morality then you wouldn’t be able to vote for any candidate in any election anywhere, and its been like this for years. R’moshe Feinstien had stated the importance of participating in democratic system therefor the question becomes choosing the lesser of two evils. Role model is a factor to consider however there other probably more important factors.

Funnybone and Reb Eliezer, please do not feed the troll.

klugeryid, I am refugee myself from Hungary who came here sixty years ago. We stayed in Austria for 2 1/2 years in wooden barracks until we were able to come here. I thank America and the president at that time, Ike and especially that Trump was not president. When people are desperate, they do desperate things.

You know what people coming across the border with children are doing?
Using their children as human shields
I believe that is a war crime

That’s a very unusual spelling of “I’m a total idiot or troll,” but I’ll accept it.

If I’m wrong show me how if I’m not then what’s your issue?

My issue is that you should know by yourself that you’re wrong. You asked for this.

I believe that is a war crime

Is your next question “Does it say anywhere ‘war crime’ is only if it’s part of a war?”

Geneva Conventions… civilians… armed conflict

“People coming across the border” are not involved in armed conflict (which is what the Geneva
Conventions apply to) and cannot be classed as non-civilians as opposed to their children.

Someone committing a crime, which he knows carries a certain punishment, who commits the crime while with his children so he can then say you can’t punish me because it will leave the children in a terrible predicament. That is classic human shield.

The classic use of “human shield” is as a military law term with a specific meaning. (It’s also come to
be used for any situation in which the tactic is used, but it has no legal ramifications outside war.)
Also, I disagree with the reason you give here for why people bring their children along
when attempting to move to another country (the alternative being what, exactly?).

Reb eliezer
Where in the constitution does it say that a president has to be a good role model to jewish children?

Reb eliezer,

Bill Clinton
Pete Buttigieg
Creepy joe

These are just as great role models as our president

You are not saying he is moral but the others are immoral two. Two wrongs don’t make a right. When I vote I wil pick simeone who is moral or don’t vote.

The Besht interprets the pasuk אנכי עומד בין ה’ וביניכם the ego, the self stands between us and Hashem. This president is always involved with himself personally caring very little about the natiion.

klugeryid, you did not answer my question, is midas sedom immorality?

I think midas sedom is not helping by training does that have no skills so they should not have to rely on welfare. and cutting SNAP and CHIP for the poor. I was educated through the CETA program abolished by Reagan.

NO I WASN’T GOING TO ASK THAT (“Does it say anywhere ‘war crime’ is only if it’s part of a war?”)

Well, you were talking about a war crime in a non-war situation, so…

SO YOU ARE FINE WITH SOMEONE ROBBING A STORE AT GUNPOINT WHILE HOLDING THEIR CHILD IN FRONT OF THEM BECAUSE IT’S NOT A WAR OR ARMED ”CONFLICT ”?

I’m saying they could not be charged with the war crime of using human shields by a body that deals with
war crimes. (They could face a child endangerment charge from a law enforcement agency, assuming such a law exists in their country.)

You didn’t respond about the relevant issue of migrant parents’ intent.