December 3, 2014 12:54 am at 12:54 am #614386barlevParticipant
So we go to the ballot soon, most likely just after pesach
We have 4 months to bash our opponents, 4 months to gamble on who will win, 4 months to build coalitions, or 4 months to ignore the subject, what are you going to do?
I will try to keep you a little bit up to date with what’s going on, at the same time try to keep away from internal frum politicsDecember 3, 2014 1:35 am at 1:35 am #1061915
Better not to vote at allDecember 3, 2014 3:18 am at 3:18 am #1061916147Participant
monroeyidd:- Whom do you think you are? to advocate going against the Pesak of our Gedolim to vote @Israeli Elections. Plain & Simple:- The more religious votes, the more seats in the next Israeli Kenesset for the religious parties, and then the more improvement in edicts for we religious Yehudim.December 3, 2014 4:19 am at 4:19 am #1061917
That’s the psak from my rebbe the logic being if you don’t take from them you don’t owe them anything like what’s happening with the draft they have a point if you’re benefiting then help out like this I have nothing to do with the government and that’s it I don’t owe them anything and they don’t owe me anythingDecember 3, 2014 7:36 am at 7:36 am #1061918
Brisk doesn’t vote in elections.
Elections are in 2016, not 2015.December 3, 2014 10:34 am at 10:34 am #1061919barlevParticipant
so the date the elections will take place is
still in chodesh Adar, shame they dont wait till end of Bien Hazmanim when pesach is over and all the yeshivah boys are on holidays, think it would help the frum voteDecember 3, 2014 11:08 am at 11:08 am #1061920
I won’t tell you not to listen to your rebbe, and I hope he has the authority to pasken such shailos.
Here’s two arguments to the contrary, a religious one and a social one.
1) The Chazon Ish wrote that by casting a vote for a party that is shomer Torah and mitzvos one fulfills his obligation to protest chillul shem Shomayim.
2) You may not owe them or they owe you, but you owe it to Klal Yisroel to do your part in limiting their ability to harm the Torah and its keepers.December 3, 2014 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #1061921ED IT ORParticipant
Kahana TzedekDecember 3, 2014 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #1061922akupermaParticipant
Elections are good entertainment, even in this case when the results are probably going to simimlar to the last election (Nationalist parties in control, but forced to form a coalition with the hareidim and/or the centrist block consisting of ex-Likudniks).
And at least the Israelis have elections. Many countries have other ways of picking leaders (see neighboring Syria for a popular alternative method).December 3, 2014 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #1061923eekMember
Hi voos epes!December 3, 2014 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #1061925gavra_at_workParticipant
Here’s to hoping the Charaidim get in the coalition this time around.December 3, 2014 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #1061926
The best way to protest chillul sheim shamayim is with signs not participating in the electionsDecember 3, 2014 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #1061927SayIDidIt™Participant
4 months to ignore the subject
SiDi™December 3, 2014 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #1061928
So where it is written in the Torah that to vote , Its a Chilul ShamayimDecember 3, 2014 7:39 pm at 7:39 pm #1061929
“The best way to protest chillul sheim shamayim is with signs not participating in the elections”
That’s your approach. The Chazon Ish disagreed. Why don’t you ask your rov what you should do?December 3, 2014 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #1061930
I haveDecember 3, 2014 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #1061931
I dont know about signs but the Brisker Rov didn’t vote nor do his talmidim and yeshiva.December 3, 2014 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #1061932
The Brisker Rov’s hanhogos do not obligate anybody besides his talmidim and those for whom he paskened. The majority of the gedolim disagreed with him.December 3, 2014 11:04 pm at 11:04 pm #1061933
Toldos ahron doesn’t vote eitherDecember 4, 2014 12:14 am at 12:14 am #1061934
Finding scattered minority opinions will not change the fact that the majority of manhigei Yisroel hold that anyone who can must vote in Israeli elections. Not doing so can only be justified if one is a talmid of one of the few sages alive TODAY who disagree (see mishna Eidiyos 5:7) AND he receives a specific psak from his rov, the same one to whom he turns for all other shailos of m’deoraisa and m’derabonon, that this is what he should be doing.December 4, 2014 12:32 am at 12:32 am #1061935
Listen you want to vote fine but when they want to draft you in the army…..December 4, 2014 12:55 am at 12:55 am #1061936
If they do, it just might be because some other people didn’t vote also. Do you think that if all the MKs were secular they wouldn’t want to draft the yeshiva bochurim?
The frum parties are there to enforce shnayim ochazin, not to practice hashutfin sherotzu.
BTW logical reasoning is really worthless against the psak of the majority of gedolei Yisroel. Even if I was sure that my voting would bring calamity upon me I’m not competent enough to decide one way or the other. After a psak (in either direction), all discussion is only b’geder l’hagdil Torah v’yadir. Beis Shammai b’mokom Beis Hillel eino mishna.December 4, 2014 1:47 am at 1:47 am #1061937
Of course if one is following his manhig’s instructions TO vote, he must similarly follow his manhig’s instructions on WHOM to vote for.December 4, 2014 2:09 am at 2:09 am #1061939lesschumrasParticipant
Monroeyidd, why do you feel you can define the limits of your interaction with the government? They’ll draft you wether you vote or notDecember 4, 2014 2:15 am at 2:15 am #1061940
Oy, it’s painful to watch Voos epes/bp yidd/ I don’t even remember what else ruin yet another thread.December 4, 2014 3:47 am at 3:47 am #1061942
It’s not ruined at allDecember 4, 2014 4:05 am at 4:05 am #1061943eekMember
I enjoy it. Because it is really interesting to see how somebody can…..December 4, 2014 4:17 am at 4:17 am #1061944👑RebYidd23Participant
You would have done better with a different username. Like EIEIO, or EggplantSalad950.December 4, 2014 4:39 am at 4:39 am #1061945
LolDecember 5, 2014 12:19 am at 12:19 am #1061946
I don’t get the whole discussion. just vote who will be the best for you.December 5, 2014 12:47 am at 12:47 am #1061947
The discussion is on whether or not frum Jews should vote in Eretz Yisrael.December 5, 2014 1:02 am at 1:02 am #1061948
why not vote?December 5, 2014 1:33 am at 1:33 am #1061949
Read this thread and you’ll find out!December 5, 2014 1:49 am at 1:49 am #1061950ari-freeParticipant
He’s from Monroe. The scattered minority opinion over there is probably TO vote, if such an opinion even exists there at all.December 5, 2014 3:34 am at 3:34 am #1061951
I don’t think anyone would dare say that in monroeDecember 8, 2014 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #1061952
if you don’t vote for the people you like then the people you don’t like will win. what am I missing here?December 9, 2014 4:30 am at 4:30 am #1061953
What if you don’t like anyone or the government?December 10, 2014 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #1061954
kj chusid: That’s a common issue if every election, including in the U.S. You choose the best of those running.
The bottom line is if you don’t vote, you get the worst of the worst. Can you say Obama boys and girls?December 10, 2014 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #1061955
But we don’t want to cooperate with the tzionimDecember 10, 2014 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #1061956
If you dont want to co-operate, Dont use their Roads, Their Money, Their Policeman , Their Airport etcDecember 10, 2014 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #1061958
“we don’t want to cooperate with the tzionim”
Yes you do, as long as they give you money!December 10, 2014 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #1061959
“if you don’t vote, you get the worst of the worst. Can you say Obama boys and girls? “
Obama’s election in 2008 was with the highest percentage turnout since 1968 and the highest numerical turnout ever.December 10, 2014 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #1061960
We don’t take money from tzionim eitherDecember 11, 2014 9:02 am at 9:02 am #1061961
“Obama’s election in 2008 was with the highest percentage turnout since 1968 and the highest numerical turnout ever. “
Just shows you can fool most of the people, most of the time. What he said, his background and associations meant nothing. A good speech with a teleprompter, a leftist media and his race were the winning factors.December 11, 2014 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #1061962
“We don’t take money from tzionim either”
If that were only completely true. Do you use any government services that are either free or subsidized? Do you pay for your own trash to be picked up? Do you go into the grocery and say, “I want to pay the full price for those staples that the government subsidizes? What about health insurance? and on and on.December 11, 2014 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #1061963
I live In Monroe but the satmar chassidim in ey don’t take any benefitsDecember 11, 2014 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #1061964
If the Satmar in EY use a Road, Are protected by the Police, Have Running water or Electricity or use the airport thet are taking benefitsDecember 11, 2014 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #1061965a maminParticipant
KJ Chusid: I don’t know if you really exist , when I click on your name it turns me right back to Yeshiva world? Anyway, the point I want to make is as follows:
You seem to be new here? The atmosphere is not one of A Monroe upbringing, not too many Satmer Chasidim on here, so proceed with caution? Do I need to elaborate?December 11, 2014 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #1061966
No that’s not how it works ask some senior members about me for more infoDecember 15, 2014 7:43 pm at 7:43 pm #1061968
“A good speech with a teleprompter”
Other than California Gov. Jerry Brown, who ad-libs almost all his speeches and doesn’t employ speechwriters other than his wife, what other politician in America doesn’t use a teleprompter to deliver prepared speeches that someone else wrote? For example, the best speeches of Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush were written by Peggy Noonan.
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