Israel Elections 2015

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  • #614386
    barlev
    Participant

    So we go to the ballot soon, most likely just after pesach

    We have 4 months to bash our opponents, 4 months to gamble on who will win, 4 months to build coalitions, or 4 months to ignore the subject, what are you going to do?

    I will try to keep you a little bit up to date with what’s going on, at the same time try to keep away from internal frum politics

    #1061915
    monroeyidd
    Member

    Better not to vote at all

    #1061916
    147
    Participant

    monroeyidd:- Whom do you think you are? to advocate going against the Pesak of our Gedolim to vote @Israeli Elections. Plain & Simple:- The more religious votes, the more seats in the next Israeli Kenesset for the religious parties, and then the more improvement in edicts for we religious Yehudim.

    #1061917
    monroeyidd
    Member

    That’s the psak from my rebbe the logic being if you don’t take from them you don’t owe them anything like what’s happening with the draft they have a point if you’re benefiting then help out like this I have nothing to do with the government and that’s it I don’t owe them anything and they don’t owe me anything

    #1061918
    Joseph
    Participant

    Brisk doesn’t vote in elections.

    Elections are in 2016, not 2015.

    #1061919
    barlev
    Participant

    so the date the elections will take place is

    17th March

    still in chodesh Adar, shame they dont wait till end of Bien Hazmanim when pesach is over and all the yeshivah boys are on holidays, think it would help the frum vote

    #1061920
    Israeli Chareidi
    Participant

    monroeyidd

    I won’t tell you not to listen to your rebbe, and I hope he has the authority to pasken such shailos.

    Here’s two arguments to the contrary, a religious one and a social one.

    1) The Chazon Ish wrote that by casting a vote for a party that is shomer Torah and mitzvos one fulfills his obligation to protest chillul shem Shomayim.

    2) You may not owe them or they owe you, but you owe it to Klal Yisroel to do your part in limiting their ability to harm the Torah and its keepers.

    #1061921
    ED IT OR
    Participant

    Kahana Tzedek

    #1061922
    akuperma
    Participant

    Elections are good entertainment, even in this case when the results are probably going to simimlar to the last election (Nationalist parties in control, but forced to form a coalition with the hareidim and/or the centrist block consisting of ex-Likudniks).

    And at least the Israelis have elections. Many countries have other ways of picking leaders (see neighboring Syria for a popular alternative method).

    #1061923
    eek
    Member

    Hi voos epes!

    #1061925
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Here’s to hoping the Charaidim get in the coalition this time around.

    #1061926
    monroeyidd
    Member

    The best way to protest chillul sheim shamayim is with signs not participating in the elections

    #1061927
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    4 months to ignore the subject

    SiDi™

    #1061928
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    So where it is written in the Torah that to vote , Its a Chilul Shamayim

    #1061929
    Israeli Chareidi
    Participant

    monroeyidd

    “The best way to protest chillul sheim shamayim is with signs not participating in the elections”

    That’s your approach. The Chazon Ish disagreed. Why don’t you ask your rov what you should do?

    #1061930
    monroeyidd
    Member

    I have

    #1061931
    Joseph
    Participant

    I dont know about signs but the Brisker Rov didn’t vote nor do his talmidim and yeshiva.

    #1061932
    Israeli Chareidi
    Participant

    The Brisker Rov’s hanhogos do not obligate anybody besides his talmidim and those for whom he paskened. The majority of the gedolim disagreed with him.

    #1061933
    monroeyidd
    Member

    Toldos ahron doesn’t vote either

    #1061934
    Israeli Chareidi
    Participant

    monroeyidd

    Finding scattered minority opinions will not change the fact that the majority of manhigei Yisroel hold that anyone who can must vote in Israeli elections. Not doing so can only be justified if one is a talmid of one of the few sages alive TODAY who disagree (see mishna Eidiyos 5:7) AND he receives a specific psak from his rov, the same one to whom he turns for all other shailos of m’deoraisa and m’derabonon, that this is what he should be doing.

    #1061935
    monroeyidd
    Member

    Listen you want to vote fine but when they want to draft you in the army…..

    #1061936
    Israeli Chareidi
    Participant

    monroeyidd

    If they do, it just might be because some other people didn’t vote also. Do you think that if all the MKs were secular they wouldn’t want to draft the yeshiva bochurim?

    The frum parties are there to enforce shnayim ochazin, not to practice hashutfin sherotzu.

    BTW logical reasoning is really worthless against the psak of the majority of gedolei Yisroel. Even if I was sure that my voting would bring calamity upon me I’m not competent enough to decide one way or the other. After a psak (in either direction), all discussion is only b’geder l’hagdil Torah v’yadir. Beis Shammai b’mokom Beis Hillel eino mishna.

    #1061937
    Joseph
    Participant

    Of course if one is following his manhig’s instructions TO vote, he must similarly follow his manhig’s instructions on WHOM to vote for.

    #1061939
    lesschumras
    Participant

    Monroeyidd, why do you feel you can define the limits of your interaction with the government? They’ll draft you wether you vote or not

    #1061940
    Letakein Girl
    Participant

    Oy, it’s painful to watch Voos epes/bp yidd/ I don’t even remember what else ruin yet another thread.

    #1061942
    monroeyidd
    Member

    It’s not ruined at all

    #1061943
    eek
    Member

    I enjoy it. Because it is really interesting to see how somebody can…..

    #1061944
    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    You would have done better with a different username. Like EIEIO, or EggplantSalad950.

    #1061945
    monroeyidd
    Member

    Lol

    #1061946
    tzviki16
    Member

    I don’t get the whole discussion. just vote who will be the best for you.

    #1061947
    Letakein Girl
    Participant

    Tzviki,

    The discussion is on whether or not frum Jews should vote in Eretz Yisrael.

    #1061948
    tzviki16
    Member

    why not vote?

    #1061949
    Letakein Girl
    Participant

    Read this thread and you’ll find out!

    #1061950
    ari-free
    Participant

    He’s from Monroe. The scattered minority opinion over there is probably TO vote, if such an opinion even exists there at all.

    #1061951
    monroeyidd
    Member

    I don’t think anyone would dare say that in monroe

    #1061952
    tzviki16
    Member

    if you don’t vote for the people you like then the people you don’t like will win. what am I missing here?

    #1061953
    kj chusid
    Participant

    What if you don’t like anyone or the government?

    #1061954
    BarryLS1
    Participant

    kj chusid: That’s a common issue if every election, including in the U.S. You choose the best of those running.

    The bottom line is if you don’t vote, you get the worst of the worst. Can you say Obama boys and girls?

    #1061955
    kj chusid
    Participant

    But we don’t want to cooperate with the tzionim

    #1061956
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    If you dont want to co-operate, Dont use their Roads, Their Money, Their Policeman , Their Airport etc

    #1061958
    charliehall
    Participant

    “we don’t want to cooperate with the tzionim”

    Yes you do, as long as they give you money!

    #1061959
    charliehall
    Participant

    “if you don’t vote, you get the worst of the worst. Can you say Obama boys and girls? “

    Obama’s election in 2008 was with the highest percentage turnout since 1968 and the highest numerical turnout ever.

    #1061960
    kj chusid
    Participant

    We don’t take money from tzionim either

    #1061961
    BarryLS1
    Participant

    “Obama’s election in 2008 was with the highest percentage turnout since 1968 and the highest numerical turnout ever. “

    Just shows you can fool most of the people, most of the time. What he said, his background and associations meant nothing. A good speech with a teleprompter, a leftist media and his race were the winning factors.

    #1061962
    BarryLS1
    Participant

    “We don’t take money from tzionim either”

    If that were only completely true. Do you use any government services that are either free or subsidized? Do you pay for your own trash to be picked up? Do you go into the grocery and say, “I want to pay the full price for those staples that the government subsidizes? What about health insurance? and on and on.

    #1061963
    kj chusid
    Participant

    I live In Monroe but the satmar chassidim in ey don’t take any benefits

    #1061964
    zahavasdad
    Participant

    If the Satmar in EY use a Road, Are protected by the Police, Have Running water or Electricity or use the airport thet are taking benefits

    #1061965
    a mamin
    Participant

    KJ Chusid: I don’t know if you really exist , when I click on your name it turns me right back to Yeshiva world? Anyway, the point I want to make is as follows:

    You seem to be new here? The atmosphere is not one of A Monroe upbringing, not too many Satmer Chasidim on here, so proceed with caution? Do I need to elaborate?

    #1061966
    kj chusid
    Participant

    No that’s not how it works ask some senior members about me for more info

    #1061968
    charliehall
    Participant

    “A good speech with a teleprompter”

    Other than California Gov. Jerry Brown, who ad-libs almost all his speeches and doesn’t employ speechwriters other than his wife, what other politician in America doesn’t use a teleprompter to deliver prepared speeches that someone else wrote? For example, the best speeches of Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush were written by Peggy Noonan.

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