Israelmany

I know you don’t believe in vaccines, and maybe you don’t even believe in corona, but most people do.

They are trying to keep people from getting sick and dying.

Simply releasing names of vaccine refusers is letting them off easily. They really should be quarantined until they come to their senses. They are basicallly rodfim.

Of course the virus killed people, but most people survived.

It certainly true that most people survived.

It is also certainly true that most people survived the vaccine.

It is most likely true that taking the vaccine is much more likely to save lives than not.

DY: I think they are wrong, but rodfim?

There might be several arguments why they are not currently rodfim:

1) If they take serious precaution measures, equivalent in effect to vaccination, they are not.
2) I believe there is no determination yet that vaccine sufficiently reduced transmission, although there are preliminary estimates. so, this would be sofek rodfim.
3) while there is a shortage of vaccines, someone else could use it.

Note that none of these justifications apply to those who are not taking precautions.

@rightwriter

Look, I’m also against the new rule and it’s okay to be critical of it, but please do not compare the Jewish State to Nazi Germany.

Even 1 person dying from a vaccine is too much since it’s meant to protect not kill.

Of course one person dying is tragic. But dying of Covid is no less tragic, and in all likelihood, the vaccine will prevent a lot more deaths from Covid than it will cause.

The fact that the vaccine is meant to protect is irelevant. That doesn’t make one death from the vaccine worse than a thousand deaths from Covid, which the vaccine prevents.

Besides as I mentioned in my posts, we are talking about the LONGRUN. Noone knows what side effects this vaccine has whether in a year or 2 or 5 or 10.

Nobody knows for sure, but there’s no reason to believe it will be so bad.. We do know, however, the the long term effect of dying from Covid. The person remains dead.

RW -“Take your head out of the gutter. No one knows what issues can arise in the long run due to this untested vaccine. There has never been a vaccine released so early without years of trials. Oh the FDA approved it you say? Yes well it’s called an emergency approval due to circumstances and money being made, not an approval that it really is safe. Besides how many drugs have been approved over the years by the righteous FDA and been taken off the market due to serious adverse effects? Many.”

I think you should take your head out of the Sand!
Pushing a vaccine in a Pandemic, is Not because we know it’s 100% safe. As a matter of fact, almost nothing Medical Practitioners do is w/o Side Effects.
Before you post Nonsensical posts – look into it.
The reason why we practice Medicine, is because the outcome of one is better than the other.
IOW, getting the disease is worse than the Therapy!

Worse? That’s insane.

DY – yes, the Israeli study is the first indicating reduced transmission. this is an early study with some caveats if you read reporting to the end. Even with this condition, there are two others that I mentioned. The next question is how to stop them. Anti-maskers are visible, so you can usually walk around them and exclude from the company. Maybe in the future non-vaxers would need to wear, indeed, special signs that people know to avoid them.

AAQ, and if they live normally,vas before the pandemic? Are they rodfim? Is it muttar to kill them?

I’ll bring up MadeAliyah’s question as well, perhaps a bit differently – if everyone else is vaccinated, why would they care if some weren’t?

>> Are they rodfim? Is it muttar to kill them?

Again, subject to previous conditions, you should use least extreme measures you can. Traditional measure is to isolate from the society. Frankly, this already happened. A lot of people who can do it moved recently out of big cities. So, if you or I live too close to people who do not follow the rules, we should maybe just move. Of course, there are people who, for various reasons, are not able to move.

>> if everyone else is vaccinated, why would they care if some weren’t?

If sizeable portion of population (20%) will not vaccinate, then pandemic will continue at reduced rates (20%?) level and will be endangering even those who are vaccinated. I hope it will be soon known whether one can rely on antigen tests to see who really acquired immunity, then at least we will know who should be more careful – or maybe take extra vaccines …

If sizeable portion of population (20%) will not vaccinate, then pandemic will continue at reduced rates (20%?) level and will be endangering even those who are vaccinated.

No, the vaccine is almost 100% effective at preventing serious illness.

DY >> Tongue in cheek much

no, very straighforward – I am arguing _these_ are issues that require more attention.

meta-question – whom would you ask? A posek is a democratically “elected” figure – it is a person who is being often asked by other deciders. Now, if most of questions being asked are not in this area, then we might not have a well-developed poskim in the areas we are not asking questions. “our fault”, as we discussed before. Maybe time to start is now.

Rightwqriter, No one is releasing names. They are being turned over to local authorities for private attempts to convince them. However, the lists may not be made public or used in any other way.

Hewalth, that is true of every vaccine before it comes out (although all must go through approval protocols). The present vaccines have been approved by all of the leading regulatory agencies. COVID-19 is a clear and present danger. אין ספק מוציא מודאי

Sure the gym owner has the right to refuse you entry. But if the gym owner wishes to permit you entry, is it the right of the government to deny entry where both parties (owner and patron) agree on permitting it?

Syag>> Some of your comments are very unusual

Not sure whether you direct this at me, rightwriter, or someone else, (or all of us), but it would more helpful for us if you were more precise with your diagnosis. As it stands, I would understand your polite words as a definite compliment and will try harder next time! (who would want to make “usual” comments, after all). It also may be that if you see something “unusual” or “disturbing”, it is a sign to look over what your assumptions are.

and I may add the slick CNN move. Truncating sentences to change the meaning. I did not say your comments are unusual. I said they are unusual for a shomer torah umitzvos. If my missing comma really threw you, I apologize. Commas have never been my friends.