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- This topic has 35 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 2 years ago by Always_Ask_Questions.
February 25, 2021 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #1952268
What’s this behavior going on in Israel? Releasing and publicizing names of those who haven’t been vaccinated and treating them as second class citizens banning them from living a normal life as others? It seems as if Israel has been compromised and is acting like prewar Germany or just showing their true colors.
This is a very dangerous world we are living in. The virus gave the governments of the world the greatest opportunity to usher in the new world order. It’s only getting worse and worse and all because of the horrible people who have played along with it. Other’s have to suffer due to the mask believers and government lovers.
When masks don’t even protect anyone! The proof is that people still get sick even with masks and the new guidelines are to wear 2 masks! It’s utter insanity.
Can anyone deny at this point that there is some sort of new world order being forced upon the world creeping slowly but surely day by day? Look how far we have gotten just in 1 year!
Masks are normal and expected by others, standing outside on lines to stores for hours is accepted, getting others int rouble for not following “guidelines”, being second class citizens and having to show covid green passports to go to a gym and so on.
At this point the People have been conditioned to accept anything and the world elite governments are ready to take advantage of that as seen up till now. Is it even possible to stop this madness or should we just expect to be more and more controlled as each day goes by?
“Pnei hador kipnei hakelev”February 25, 2021 9:40 pm at 9:40 pm #1952414
I know you don’t believe in vaccines, and maybe you don’t even believe in corona, but most people do.
They are trying to keep people from getting sick and dying.February 26, 2021 2:51 am at 2:51 am #1952435Sam KleinParticipant
Don’t expect any changes soon. Not before. WE ALL get our act together and wake ourselves up to reality to Hashems Wake up call for serious teshuva and achdus ASAP. Do you think this entire Coronavirus pandemic mageifa is just a coincidence? Hashem loves each and every one of his loving nation klal yisroel and is just waiting for us to accept his shocking wake up call of the coronavirus pandemic mageifa for us to start doing teshuva ASAP together as a nation towards the end of this bitter Golus so Hashem can bring Mashiach already.
Let’s wake ourselves up to reality and face life and act on it instead of living in denial like we’ve been doing all this past generation’s and could’ve avoided millions of deaths and tragedies if we just admitted to Hashem that we accept his call for serious teshuva and achdus ASAP and we will start as a loving nation together now just like klal yisroel did in the story of Purim when Mordechai and Esther requested them to get together for serious teshuva and fasting etc…..February 26, 2021 8:55 am at 8:55 am #1952424
“They are trying to keep people from getting sick and dying.”
Yes and forcing a vaccine with no long term trial is the best solution especially since it’s killed many people within a few hours but I guess that doesn’t count it’s just collateral damage.
Of course there is a virus you genius! But most people survive it and working on building people’s immune system or medicine cures is much more effective especially since people can still get sick and/or carry the virus and transfer it to others despite being vaccinated
Take your head out of the gutter. No one knows what issues can arise in the long run due to this untested vaccine. There has never been a vaccine released so early without years of trials. Oh the FDA approved it you say? Yes well it’s called an emergency approval due to circumstances and money being made, not an approval that it really is safe. Besides how many drugs have been approved over the years by the righteous FDA and been taken off the market due to serious adverse effects? Many.
There is a lot of money involved in this situation as you can see proof by the many people murdered via ventilators due to negligence and putting people on who didn’t need it, and you can also see how cuomo murdered 1000s with the nursing home scandals. The figures came out on a covid patient being admitted as a result hospital would make about 3000 but for a dead covid patient they would make around 8000. Do the math genius what patient is worth more? Oh but the virus doesn’t exist is that your best form of attacking someone due to your ignorance?
How did the world survive the spanish flu and all other pandemics. Did they mass vaccinate with an untested vaccine? You must be some good liberal citizen to not see that they are taking advantage of a bad situation in order to see how much they can control people and to change their lives.February 26, 2021 8:56 am at 8:56 am #1952439
The writer has a point. Maybe he could petition to open vaccine-free restaurants for non-vaccinated only. The food will be even cheaper as the chef does not need to care how the food smells, so he could use left-over from the other restaurtants.
I am not sure Supreme court will allow back of the bus reserved for the vaccine-freeFebruary 26, 2021 1:59 pm at 1:59 pm #1952470charliehallParticipant
Simply releasing names of vaccine refusers is letting them off easily. They really should be quarantined until they come to their senses. They are basicallly rodfim.February 26, 2021 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #1952482charliehallParticipant
“it’s killed many people within a few hours”
That is a lie. COVID, however, has killed millions.February 26, 2021 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #1952486
Charliehall how is that a lie! It’s even been on the news except that good liberal citizens such as you feed in to the propaganda cover up of “they didn’t die from the vaccine”. Yes what a coincidence they were alive and well up until an hour or 2 after taking the shot. Definitely wasnt from the vaccine.
Look up hank aaron, look up the many in Israel who have died shortly after the shot. And look up the many nurses and people who have gotten palsy and other severe effects from the vaccine.
Of course the virus killed people, but most people survived. Does that necessitate everyone to take an untested potentially harmful vaccine?!
Especially since even with the vaccine people can still get the virus and even transmit it to others! Plus masking will still be required!
Get your head out of the sand in order to escape reality, it doesn’t even work for ostritchesFebruary 27, 2021 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #1952501MadeAliyahParticipant
>Simply releasing names of vaccine refusers is letting them off easily. They really should be quarantined until they come to their senses. They are basicallly rodfim.<
I wish you would tell us why:February 27, 2021 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #1952599
Of course the virus killed people, but most people survived.
It certainly true that most people survived.
It is also certainly true that most people survived the vaccine.
It is most likely true that taking the vaccine is much more likely to save lives than not.February 27, 2021 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #1952600
They are basicallly rodfim.
I think they are wrong, but rodfim? Would you literally kill them?February 27, 2021 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #1952608
DY: I think they are wrong, but rodfim?
There might be several arguments why they are not currently rodfim:
1) If they take serious precaution measures, equivalent in effect to vaccination, they are not.
2) I believe there is no determination yet that vaccine sufficiently reduced transmission, although there are preliminary estimates. so, this would be sofek rodfim.
3) while there is a shortage of vaccines, someone else could use it.
Note that none of these justifications apply to those who are not taking precautions.February 28, 2021 2:38 am at 2:38 am #1952633
Daas “It is also certainly true that most people survived the vaccine”
Even 1 person dying from a vaccine is too much since it’s meant to protect not kill. There would be much less of a chance for anyone to die from it if it was actually tested.
Besides as I mentioned in my posts, we are talking about the LONGRUN. Noone knows what side effects this vaccine has whether in a year or 2 or 5 or 10.
So In the long-run the risk of getting covid and likely surviving it might greatly outweigh the “benefit” of the vaccine.February 28, 2021 2:38 am at 2:38 am #1952634MadeAliyahParticipant
Look, I’m also against the new rule and it’s okay to be critical of it, but please do not compare the Jewish State to Nazi Germany.February 28, 2021 2:47 am at 2:47 am #1952637
I believe there is no determination yet that vaccine sufficiently reduced transmission
If you grant that I am correct, and they act the same as possible people who were vaccinated, is it muttar to kill them?February 28, 2021 2:50 am at 2:50 am #1952638
Even 1 person dying from a vaccine is too much since it’s meant to protect not kill.
Of course one person dying is tragic. But dying of Covid is no less tragic, and in all likelihood, the vaccine will prevent a lot more deaths from Covid than it will cause.
The fact that the vaccine is meant to protect is irelevant. That doesn’t make one death from the vaccine worse than a thousand deaths from Covid, which the vaccine prevents.
Besides as I mentioned in my posts, we are talking about the LONGRUN. Noone knows what side effects this vaccine has whether in a year or 2 or 5 or 10.
Nobody knows for sure, but there’s no reason to believe it will be so bad.. We do know, however, the the long term effect of dying from Covid. The person remains dead.February 28, 2021 10:11 am at 10:11 am #1952654
I believe there is no determination yet that vaccine sufficiently reduced transmission, although there are preliminary estimates.
Read Bloomberg: Pfizer-BioNTech Shot Stops Covid Spread, Israeli Study Shows
There are other sources as well.February 28, 2021 1:03 pm at 1:03 pm #1952680HealthParticipant
RW -“Take your head out of the gutter. No one knows what issues can arise in the long run due to this untested vaccine. There has never been a vaccine released so early without years of trials. Oh the FDA approved it you say? Yes well it’s called an emergency approval due to circumstances and money being made, not an approval that it really is safe. Besides how many drugs have been approved over the years by the righteous FDA and been taken off the market due to serious adverse effects? Many.”
I think you should take your head out of the Sand!
Pushing a vaccine in a Pandemic, is Not because we know it’s 100% safe. As a matter of fact, almost nothing Medical Practitioners do is w/o Side Effects.
Before you post Nonsensical posts – look into it.
The reason why we practice Medicine, is because the outcome of one is better than the other.
IOW, getting the disease is worse than the Therapy!February 28, 2021 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #1952726
@madealiyah-Look, I’m also against the new rule and it’s okay to be critical of it, but please do not compare the Jewish State to Nazi Germany”
Actually maybe worse. They are introducing ankle bracelets to ensure quarantine! Who can deny a new world order takeover at this point! People are being treated as prisoners confined to their own home with freedoms being taken away day by day. How can people be so stupid to accept all this around the world?!February 28, 2021 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #1952791
Worse? That’s insane.February 28, 2021 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #1952805
Dass not worse literally. But what they are introducing into the world as ideas for other nations to follow suit or capitalize on taking away people’s freedoms. So bad nonetheless.February 28, 2021 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #1952810
DY – yes, the Israeli study is the first indicating reduced transmission. this is an early study with some caveats if you read reporting to the end. Even with this condition, there are two others that I mentioned. The next question is how to stop them. Anti-maskers are visible, so you can usually walk around them and exclude from the company. Maybe in the future non-vaxers would need to wear, indeed, special signs that people know to avoid them.February 28, 2021 7:26 pm at 7:26 pm #1952811
may I ask you – did you have a chance to learn halakha and if you comfortable to disclose – where? and did you have a chance to run your questions by your Rav or Rosh Yeshiva?February 28, 2021 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #1952819
AAQ, and if they live normally,vas before the pandemic? Are they rodfim? Is it muttar to kill them?
I’ll bring up MadeAliyah’s question as well, perhaps a bit differently – if everyone else is vaccinated, why would they care if some weren’t?February 28, 2021 8:41 pm at 8:41 pm #1952822
Rightwriter, if you’re worried about losing you freedom, take the vaccine.February 28, 2021 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #1952841
>> Are they rodfim? Is it muttar to kill them?
Again, subject to previous conditions, you should use least extreme measures you can. Traditional measure is to isolate from the society. Frankly, this already happened. A lot of people who can do it moved recently out of big cities. So, if you or I live too close to people who do not follow the rules, we should maybe just move. Of course, there are people who, for various reasons, are not able to move.
>> if everyone else is vaccinated, why would they care if some weren’t?
If sizeable portion of population (20%) will not vaccinate, then pandemic will continue at reduced rates (20%?) level and will be endangering even those who are vaccinated. I hope it will be soon known whether one can rely on antigen tests to see who really acquired immunity, then at least we will know who should be more careful – or maybe take extra vaccines …February 28, 2021 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #1952864
You’re not answering the question. You keep avoiding the question.February 28, 2021 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm #1952865
If sizeable portion of population (20%) will not vaccinate, then pandemic will continue at reduced rates (20%?) level and will be endangering even those who are vaccinated.
No, the vaccine is almost 100% effective at preventing serious illness.February 28, 2021 10:40 pm at 10:40 pm #1952876
and did you have a chance to run your questions by your Rav or Rosh Yeshiva?
Tongue in cheek much?February 28, 2021 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #1952892
DY >> Tongue in cheek much
no, very straighforward – I am arguing _these_ are issues that require more attention.
meta-question – whom would you ask? A posek is a democratically “elected” figure – it is a person who is being often asked by other deciders. Now, if most of questions being asked are not in this area, then we might not have a well-developed poskim in the areas we are not asking questions. “our fault”, as we discussed before. Maybe time to start is now.March 1, 2021 1:53 am at 1:53 am #1952926
Some of your comments are very unusual, bordering on inappropriate for a shomrei torah umitzvos. I don’t know who your mentors are, or if you are new to it all, but if you are sincere and not just trolling it might be worth some serious consideration. That is not meant to be an insult, it is a concerning observation.March 1, 2021 7:55 am at 7:55 am #1952971Avi KParticipant
Rightwqriter, No one is releasing names. They are being turned over to local authorities for private attempts to convince them. However, the lists may not be made public or used in any other way.
Hewalth, that is true of every vaccine before it comes out (although all must go through approval protocols). The present vaccines have been approved by all of the leading regulatory agencies. COVID-19 is a clear and present danger. אין ספק מוציא מודאיMarch 1, 2021 1:48 pm at 1:48 pm #1953121ubiquitinParticipant
” …to go to a gym and so on.”
I don’t really understand the problem. There is no “right to go to gym” Not I Israel nor America. If Gymgoers (or the government” doesn’t want non-vaccinated people in the gym why isn’t that their right?
Or as DY said “if you’re worried about losing you freedom, take the vaccine.”
You have the right to refuse the vaccine. Why doesn’t a gym (or the government) have the right to refuse entrance to non-vaccinated?
why do only you get rights and not the rest of us?March 1, 2021 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #1953144JosephParticipant
Sure the gym owner has the right to refuse you entry. But if the gym owner wishes to permit you entry, is it the right of the government to deny entry where both parties (owner and patron) agree on permitting it?March 1, 2021 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #1953150ubiquitinParticipant
‘ is it the right of the government to deny entry where both parties (owner and patron) agree on permitting it?”
Yes. there is no “right of gym ownership” The government can not allow you to operate gym
We can think of many example where both parties agree on doing something yet the Government can prevent them. Certainly if said activities are deemed to pose a risk to public health
(That said I don’t think I agree with such a policy IF all involved are aware of the risks the gym should be allowed to operate , but as to whether the Government has the right to shut them down. certainly)March 1, 2021 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1953152
Syag>> Some of your comments are very unusual
Not sure whether you direct this at me, rightwriter, or someone else, (or all of us), but it would more helpful for us if you were more precise with your diagnosis. As it stands, I would understand your polite words as a definite compliment and will try harder next time! (who would want to make “usual” comments, after all). It also may be that if you see something “unusual” or “disturbing”, it is a sign to look over what your assumptions are.March 1, 2021 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #1953168
aaq – that’s an interesting tactic, to say you are complimented and throw in a joke and a smile, and then make sure to leave a pinch in your exit. If you are insulted, say so. If not, then no need to be rude as the door closes.
useless addendum – you can see there were no assumptions (that’s been your department). I was clear that I don’t know the source and was leaving room for different options.March 1, 2021 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1953172
and I may add the slick CNN move. Truncating sentences to change the meaning. I did not say your comments are unusual. I said they are unusual for a shomer torah umitzvos. If my missing comma really threw you, I apologize. Commas have never been my friends.March 1, 2021 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #1953210
Syag >> to say you are complimented and throw in a joke and a smile, and then make sure to leave a pinch in your exit.
I am not trying to pinch anyone, h’vsh. I am just saying that it is a possibility to consider: if you see something not fitting, maybe your measure is off. Need to analyze.
As you confirmed that this is directed towards me but did not specify the issue, I’ll try to guess: my previous comment was about who is a posek. Are you of the opinion that current poskim are ordained via urim v’tumim? I am mentioning the process of how one Rav gets recognized by others, and that there are also specialists in specific areas. All of that expanding on a remark from a Rav, who has many decades in official roles in a pretty mainstream community.
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