Ivermectin…? Proofs, risks?

Home Forums Decaffeinated Coffee Ivermectin…? Proofs, risks?

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 101 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #2017176
    The Shady Charedi
    Participant

    I’m just curious. I’ve seen Ivermectin been mentioned in numerous Covid-related articles, but I’ve never bothered to look into it. I’m assuming that if I were to Google it, I would get a slanted, censored set of results.

    So, I’d be interested to hear/see from you first:
    What proofs or studies or support is there that it works for treating Covid?
    Are there any proofs or studies that it does not work?
    What are the risks of taking it?
    If there are any distinctions between different types or strengths of Ivermectin in the above studies, then please do highlight those.

    (And if you are feel that there is a significant positive advantage to taking it, then perhaps let us know what the doses and treatment regime should be, and how to obtain Ivermectin.)

    [Would it even make a difference if I ask people to please refrain from adding their off-the-cuff unsubstantiated opinions to this thread?]

    #2017252
    ujm
    Participant

    There are brand new drugs that treat Covid that were just released to the market by the FDA. As such, why would you even need to consider drugs like Ivermectin?

    #2017265
    philosopher
    Participant

    I don’t trust the FDA anymorr. They only care the big bucks or money-making positions they’ll get in these pharmaceutical companies eventually. They do not care whether a medicine is effective or not or dangerous or not.

    #2017268
    ujm
    Participant

    Philosopher, in that case, in the future how will you ever know whether a medication is safe or not?

    #2017267
    kollelman
    Participant

    Option 1) Take an vaccine made of new technology, never used before in mass populations, with absolutely no data on long-term efficacy and/or dangers. Lots of anecdotal evidence of dangers and serious issues/paralysis/death being encountered by vaccinated individuals. Vaccinated individuals are both getting and spreading COVID regardless of their vaccinated status, as well as being hospitalized. Stats of “unvaccinated” being hospitalized are skewed because they count anyone not vaccinated for 14 days as “unvaccinated” to cover up any injuries by the vaccine.

    Option 2) Do nothing. Possibly get COVID. Effective treatment is available with monoclonal antibodies. Risk of serious injury or death is very low (below 0.01%) for people without pre-existing conditions (overweight, diabetes mostly).

    Option 3) Do nothing. Possibly get COVID. Take a well-tested drug that has been used for decades such as HCQ (over 60 years old; so safe, it’s sold over the counter in many countries) or Ivermectin (for which the inventor was given a Nobel prize) which has been shown to quickly prevent replication of the virus.


    @ujm
    – what drugs are you talking about?

    #2017271
    ujm
    Participant

    Kollelman: Most importantly Molnupiravir, as well as Ronapreve and PF-07321332.

    Of course there’s also good ‘ole remdvisivr.

    #2017273
    kollelman
    Participant

    @ujm – Remdesivir has been killing people. And the rest have barely been invented, so once again, the side effects are unknown, as opposed to decades with HCQ and ivermectin. The newly announced Merck drug also seems to be ivermectin reformulated under a new name.

    #2017285
    ujm
    Participant

    Kollelman: HCQ and ivermectin don’t have “decades” treating Covid.

    #2017797
    Dr. Nat
    Participant

    My personal experience with Ivermectin:
    Since I caught Corona 1.5 years ago, my smell has not been the same. In the beginning, I could barely smell anything at all. As of a month ago, about 70 percent had returned, but there were also a number of things that I would smell incorrectly, meaning that I would register their smells as being different than before, and many things smelled bad, even though I enjoyed their smells pre-Corona. I got a doctor that I know to write me a prescription for Ivermectin, and after taking the two small doses that I received, my original sense of smell had returned. I could now smell things like Shabbos cooking in my home on Friday afternoon, paper (yes paper has a smell) and unfortunately the smell of other people’s body odor. You guys do the math.

    #2017845
    yaakov doe
    Participant

    I concur with Dr Nat’s endorsement of ivermectin. The dewormer worked quickly on my horse ans she’s back to her old self with the worms eliminated. A miracle drug.

    #2017844
    kollelman
    Participant

    @ujm – I didn’t say they have decades treating COVID. They have been safely used around the world for decades. Compared to a new vaccine with myriad reports of horrific outcomes, I’d take the former 1000x compared to a dangerous vaccine. Especially considering that 99.7+% of people survive COVID fine.

    #2017820
    The Shady Charedi
    Participant

    Before this thread gets any more side-tracked, may I please refocus:

    What proofs or studies or support is there that Ivermectin works for treating Covid?
    Are there any proofs or studies that it does not work?
    What are the risks of taking it?

    #2017863
    Dr. Nat
    Participant

    Yaakov Doe does not take penicillin because that is administered to horses, hence making it an animal medicine. For that matter he does not even drink water because that is a horse drink. He lives on Diet Coke. Just be careful, Yaakov, because it looks like all that caffeine has been getting to your head.

    #2017875
    kollelman
    Participant

    @Yaakov Doe – swallow more blue pills from CNN. I hope you’re just trolling, because if you believe that a nobel prize winning discovery in medicine is just horse dewormer, you have a long way to recovery.


    @The
    Shady Charedi
    You’re not going to find “real” studies, because those are being supressed. Doctors who know, and who are not “owned” by big pharma have been giving them out. People who take them are being healed. Joe Rogan just recently took it and was back to normal in 3 days. It’s mostly anecdotal due to the communist book-burning and censorship we’ve all been under.

    #2017892
    ujm
    Participant

    Kollelman: I’m comparing it to the new medicines specifically designed to treat Covid. Not to the vaccines.

    #2017976
    Health
    Participant

    Shady -“What proofs or studies or support is there that it works for treating Covid?”

    Go to C19early.com & click on Ivermectin.
    Then look at the studies yourself.
    The practice of medicine is an art, not a science.
    I can tell you one thing – the government isn’t doing a good job Stopping this Pandemic!

    #2017886
    Dr. Nat
    Participant

    There are more, but here’s one:

    https://zenodo. org/record/4065802#.YVriHCX3bDs

    Dangerous side effects of Ivermectin include nausea and vomiting IF YOU OVERDOSE. So basically, same as alcohol.

    #2018246

    Health > I can tell you one thing – the government isn’t doing a good job Stopping this Pandemic!

    A good point, but if let’s look at _developed_ countries that do it much better: some are remote AND used quarantines. Many European countries have somewhat better vaccination rates and using a different mix of similar vaccines. Some may be using smarter masking strategies and measuring antibody levels. Did any of them succeeded due to Ivermectin? I do not have that data. Please, examples, but from developed countries only please.

    #2018248

    My read of the studies is that Ivermectin might be helpful when used early after or even before exposure. Benefit increases with dose but so do side effects. If you use it every time you are exposed, you may end up overdosing indeed. Positive studies on the site are small, large ones are negative – claimed to be done under bad protocols.

    This is how it should work – after small studies show promise, you organize a large study that follows a promising protocol. People who are promoting this should focus on creating such trial. Given the cost of the drug, this would be an easy one to do.

    #2018274
    Health
    Participant

    AAQ -“People who are promoting this should focus on creating such trial”

    You’d be right if a Pharm company is looking to get a new therapy to the market.
    In this case, the people that believe in it have no interest.
    They usually are individual practioners, that just want to do what they think is best for the patient.

    #2018286

    > In this case, the people that believe in it have no interest. They usually are individual practioners, that just want to do what they think is best for the patient.

    On another thought – how is this narrow focus different from the pharma focused in developing their own medicines?

    #2018285

    Health, there are numerous organizations and country and state leaders, I am sure at least some of them are interested in this. Lack of proofs was not surprising a year ago, but it is suspicious now.

    To support somewhat your position – look at heterogeneous boosters. Every manufacturer organized trials for boosters using their own vaccine, but it was left to a university to test boosters between different vaccines. And all they were able to do so far is to test antibodies in the lab. So, yes, yetzer hara of profit and organizational biases are a big motivator. But what is the alternative? Note that Chinese and Russians vaccines are not doing better than Western.

    Still, organizing a test of very cheap treatments applied in mild cases seems to be (relatively) easy.
    I can’t believe there is nobody to do that.

    #2018296
    mdd1
    Participant

    Kollelman, stop spreading DESINFORMATION! Tons of people in NY, Israel, Canada took vaccines. Where are all the horrible injuries and deaths that you are talking about?!? (Aside from the Internet). Also, if someone takes a vaccine, and then gets into an accident, it is also because of the vaccine?

    #2018324
    Dr. Nat
    Participant

    The Mahmud study–a CRT that explored ivermectin as an early treatment for 363 individuals–concluded that “patients with mild-to-moderate COVID-19 infection treated with ivermectin plus doxycycline recovered earlier, were less likely to progress to more serious disease, and were more likely to be COVID-19 negative on day 14. And Niaee’s research team found that ivermectin can help even hospitalized patients. That group conducted a “randomized, double-

    blind, placebo-controlled, multicenter clinical trial” with 180 hospitalized patients diagnosed with COVID-19. They concluded that ivermectin “reduces the rate of mortality and duration of hospitalization in adult COVID-19 patients,” and the improvement of other clinical parameters showed that the ivermectin, with a wide margin of safety, had a high therapeutic effect on COVID-19.

    #2018380
    MDG
    Participant

    Do a web search on “ivermectin and India” and you can see it’s effectiveness. New cases and deaths drop precipitously.

    I also found an article from the NIH that mentions its efficacy.

    #2018384
    Health
    Participant

    Dr. Nat -“The Mahmud study–a CRT that explored ivermectin as an early treatment for 363 individuals, etc.”

    Don’t bother. The Government isn’t interested in easy, cheap therapies for Covid 19.
    They only approved Remesivir, that costs thousands per patient.
    They are probably getting a Kickback from the Pharm company?!?

    #2018390
    kollelman
    Participant

    @mdd1 numerous personal stories of women who have been niddah for months, women who advocated for the vaccine having miscarriages, and worse. Statistically, there is more danger in the vaccine than covid. Pure and simple. There is no reason to take a “vaday” dangerous vaccine to prevent a “safek” danger from treatable covid.

    #2018470
    FrumWhere
    Participant

    I think this conversation has largely missed the boat. As mentioned earlier, there are many small studies that show these drugs’ effectiveness against COVID, and the possible side effects are transient and not threatening. But what has not been mentioned earlier is the large success it has had in the field.

    Do we need a study to show that stopping at red lights prevents accidents? Ivermectin is currently used in a number of countries around the world with unparalleled success. Mexico has “ended the pandemic” (as reported here in YWN), and that happened with the introduction of Ivermectin as a kit sent to anyone testing positive and his/her entire family (that fact is not mentioned in YWN’s report, BTW). India (10-15% vaccination rate), which had a deadly surge early this summer, now has near-zero deaths, due to spreading Ivermectin among its people and cities. Peru has effectively beat the pandemic the same way. This is all documented and reported, but not on Google or in the Main-Scream-Media.

    So keep stopping at red lights, even though there is no scientific peer-reviewed “study” that will back you up!

    #2018467
    mdd1
    Participant

    Kollelman, being a niddah for months is not a horrible side effect. Severe health damage or death can be called horrible side effects or a danger. Plus, in all of these cases there has to be an ivestigation by proprerly qualified doctors proving that the problem was caused by the vaccine. Again, if someone gets vaccinated, and then walks out of the clinic, gets into a car and gets into an accident, so the vaccine caused the accident? On the other hand, people die from COVID.
    If all these non-vaccine treatments are so effective, why they did not stop the recent COVID surge in the under-vaccinated deep South? The people there know all about the great non-vaccine treatments and the horrible vaccines.

    #2018448
    2scents
    Participant

    kollelman,

    “Statistically, there is more danger in the vaccine than covid.”

    Can you objectively prove that?

    Or are you just setting the stage with your own made-up facts?

    ” There is no reason to take a “vaday” dangerous vaccine to prevent a “safek” danger from treatable covid.”

    Once again, this is based on your own facts. Unless you can objectively back those claims, there is no reason you should be taken seriously.

    #2018481
    kollelman
    Participant

    @mdd1 – why don’t you prove that people die from Covid? Most of the people – 76% IIRC had at least 2 co-morbidities. Why don’t you show how many people died from intrusive and unnecessary ventilation? Of being starved to death? Stop fear-mongering. People don’t die from Covid, they’re dying because health-care practitioners are not being allowed to treat them with effective medicines.

    The vaccine is causing untold injuries and they don’t prevent catching covid, or spreading it. There are people even getting sick with “super colds” now (google that), likely due to the vaccine taxing and destroying their immune system.

    India’s Utter Pradesh has eliminated Covid deaths, while a neighboring state with 85%+ vaccination rate has death through the roof.

    Anyone believing or taking the vaccine and still wearing masks has been sold a bill of goods. Get with the program. You’ve been duped.

    #2018482
    2scents
    Participant

    Dr. Nat,

    “Dangerous side effects of Ivermectin include nausea and vomiting IF YOU OVERDOSE. So basically, same as alcohol.”

    Just because they include otherwise relatively benign side effects does not mean they don’t have serious side effects such as seizures or coma. Given that those side effects are probably from very high doses and not common, they are there.

    Also, as a side note, alcohol overdose and toxicity are no laughing matter.

    This does not mean that Ivermectin or any drug is ineffective for Covid, nor that it has a relative safety profile, but as most things, they do have possible side effects.

    #2018484
    2scents
    Participant

    FrumWhere,

    “Do we need a study to show that stopping at red lights prevents accidents?”

    With regards to red lights, it may or may not require studies to implement traffic lights, but if you are going to recommend a treatment on a national level you do need data that produced positive results.

    Put it this way, if it is effective against the Covid virus, producing data shouldn’t be a problem. It may be that such studies are underway.

    #2018486
    2scents
    Participant

    MDG.

    “I also found an article from the NIH that mentions its efficacy.”

    The current NIH position is neither for or against Ivermecting and that more studies are needed.

    #2018488
    2scents
    Participant

    Health,

    “In this case, the people that believe in it have no interest.
    They usually are individual practioners, that just want to do what they think is best for the patient.”

    Unfortunately, this has become political with both sides of the debate saying they are using science. However, it seems to be politically slanted, with a lot of myside bias.

    #2018502
    Health
    Participant

    MDD1 -” all these non-vaccine treatments are so effective, why they did not stop the recent COVID surge in the under-vaccinated deep South? The people there know all about the great non-vaccine treatments and the horrible vaccines.”

    Ooh, Ooh pick on me.
    Because our Genocidal Government doesn’t allow any prescriptions that they don’t approve!
    But you can take Zinc, Quercitin, and Vit. D, which are OTC.

    #2018503
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Ask all the horses whose quality of life have been immeasurably improved with this miracle deworming drug. No real side effects other than more fleas. All those interested should line up at their local vet.

    #2018530
    Dr. Nat
    Participant

    2 cents,

    My point was that when disclosing side effects of a medicine, they are not “what happens when you overdose”. The side effects are real effects of taking actual prescribed dosages. My point was that they were taking a relatively harmless medication and trying to hype its danger by listing items other than side effects as side effects in an effort to scare people away from taking this otherwise harmless remedy. Got it?

    #2018613

    kollelman,
    there are several large studies showing that vaccines are not increasing number of miscarriages.

    There are also observations of effect on the cycle that seems to be affecting 1-2 cycles. Several studies just started in US abot it with expected results in Spring 2022.

    There are also studies showing increased number of miscarriages due to COVID disease.

    So, any family who is in this situation and is not taking a vaccine, should practice social distancing. hope you are advising this to your numerous contacts who report this to you.

    #2018598

    Could you guys PLEASE tell us what are you information sources? I really want to understand

    > Mexico has “ended the pandemic” (as reported here in YWN)

    Mexico daily deaths are increasing from July and are currently gradually decreasing and are 2x below US, and 2x over UK, Israel, Canada. Not ended

    > India
    Indeed, Indian medical commission had HCQ and IC in their COVID protocol. They took them out in August 2021 due to low effect. Cases and daths did not increase after that.

    Note that using results from such countries to project to USA is anyway questionable. Say, people in India are missing in Zinc. Then, having a vitamin would help them a lot. Does not answer that it will help in US – maybe yes, maybe no. The fact that you can’t show one developed country, tells a lot. Just think about it.

    IC effects:
    Sep 2021 review from Italy of 11 RCTs finds slight improvement using IC stressing very low quality of data. So, it is potentially something to add to other methods, but not a substitute.

    #2018626

    Nat, there is a clinical trial that finished a month ago with 100 people
    Studying the Expected Effect of Ivermectin Nanosuspension as Nasal Spray Upon Post covid19 Persistant Anosmia. PI: Zaky Aref . No results published yet.

    #2018638

    > My point was that they were taking a relatively harmless medication and trying to hype its danger by listing items other than side effects as side effects

    It seems that many ignorant people are literally taking horse portions and so public health people are trying to prevent it. You can also probably get to the horse does by taking it repeatedly as vitamins. This is not a vitamin.

    #2018641
    Dr. Nat
    Participant

    I posted a study earlier that showed success using Ivermectin with Acetylsalicylic acid. I also posted first-hand anecdotal evidence, i.e., that I personally took 2 doses of Ivermectin and had dramatic improvement in my altered and weakened sense of smell.

    #2018644
    Dr. Nat
    Participant

    Always Ask Questions: Sorry, but that’s a bunch of baloney. Joe Rogan has already called out CNN on the carpet in an interview with Dr. Sanjay Gupta where he asked him why CNN reported that he was taking horse de-wormer when in fact he took a prescribed dosage of a medication whose inventor won the Nobel Prize. The good doctor had no reply.

    #2018651

    Nat, between us Drs, I have no idea who Joe Rogan, Gupta, CNN are exactly, and what it has to do with the price of cholent in China.

    I have no problem researching various medicines. I just don’t understand how a couple of possible medicines became a part of a call to forgo all other protection layers – vaccines, SD, masks, other medicines. You seem to be listening to crazy right arguing crazy left and trying to figure out who is right. This is insane. I smell a rat here, hope you will too.

    #2018659
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    AAQ – “between us doctors” Really? since when?

    #2018662
    Dr. Nat
    Participant

    Always Ask Questions: Thank you, but I really have no interest in getting into that deeper discussion (although I personal bend is certainly against the Covid Vaccines in general). I was just responding to the original poster’s question about whether or not there was any evidence of effectiveness of Ivermectin, being that I had personal anecdotal evidence of its success to share with the Tzibbur. And I definitely also have reason to believe that the effectiveness of Ivermectin is being covered up by the vaccine industry as well as the mainstream media. That’s all. I’m not responsible for this discussion getting sidetracked.

    #2018669

    Syag, I said Drs, not doctors! since last millennium

    #2018675
    kollelman
    Participant

    Side point, if it’s not a conspiracy to force people to vaccinate, why has N-ACETYL CYSTEINE (NAC) been pulled from shelves around the country? It’s been over-the-counter forever, but suddenly some people are taking it to boost their immune system and it’s pulled from the market?

    #2018696
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    “Between us Drs, I have no idea who Joe Rogan, Gupta, CNN are exactly, and what it has to do with the price of cholent in China”
    Perfect inverse relationship.
    Chinese hospitalizations in September 2021 from COVID are DOWN over 88 percent compared with September 2020…..While I don’t have hard data, I suspect if you asked Rebbitzen Dini Freundlich who runs Dini’s restaurant in Beijing (and who I can personally attest makes an outstanding chulent) she will tell you her costs have skyrocketed in the past year. (P.S. she is the wife of Reb Shimon Fruendlich, the chabad shaliach in Beijing) .

Viewing 50 posts - 1 through 50 (of 101 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.