October 19, 2011 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #600075
Was Jackie Mason really Orthodox once? Where/What kind of rabbi was he, if he was one? And how/why did he “frei-out”?October 23, 2011 12:52 am at 12:52 am #820635The FrumguyParticipant
His family went to Mesivta Tiferes Yerushalayim. I know that two of his brothers are musmachim of R’ Moshe, z”l. I believe he, too, went there and had several “shtellers” in the U.S. His mispalelim told him how hilarious his “droshos” were and he decided to make a better living at comedy, unfortunately.October 23, 2011 2:15 am at 2:15 am #820636metrodriverMember
The Frumguy; Unfortunately. Your story doesn’t check out. One doesn’t go from being a “Frum” rabbi to being a Mechallel Shabbos and “Ocheil neveilos U’treifos.” There are some missing links. Yes. He was born with a sense of humor. But he sure didn’t go straight from being an Ehrlicher Yid to lead the goyishe lifestyle that he leads today.October 23, 2011 3:47 am at 3:47 am #820637
I hate to be rude, but what exactly is being accomplished by discussing this? Can’t we stick to constructive/happy stuff?October 23, 2011 5:32 am at 5:32 am #820638
“…what exactly is being accomplished by discussing this?”
+1October 23, 2011 5:41 am at 5:41 am #820639
Isn’t someone who abandons Torah and frumkeit a rasha who we should make chozek of?October 23, 2011 6:14 am at 6:14 am #820640YW Moderator-42Moderator
“…what exactly is being accomplished by discussing this?”
Perhaps we can learn from him how not to go off the derech and how to keep people we know on it.October 23, 2011 6:30 am at 6:30 am #820641
Isn’t someone who abandons Torah and frumkeit a rasha who we should make chozek of?
IMO, one should daven for someone in that position. Making bad choices doesn’t automatically mean the person is bad, just mixed up.
Perhaps we can learn from him how not to go off the derech and how to keep people we know on it.
I think thats a great idea for a thread. (wanna start it?) Maybe its just me, but I don’t like the idea of pointing to one specific person to do that.October 23, 2011 6:40 am at 6:40 am #820642
I think there’s a specific rule that someone who was frum, and a rabbi no less, and became an oivorf by throwing it all out and becoming frei, and a mechallel Shabbos and eater of treif, is a rasha and not a tinok shenishba and its a mitzvah to make chozek of him.October 23, 2011 6:53 am at 6:53 am #820643bein_hasdorimParticipant
I happened to have met him many years ago and as far as i’m concerned, bein adam L’chaveiro he seemed a Mentch,
he wasn’t stuck up like most famous people I’ve met, and had time for everybody, I chapped a schmooze with him.
Bein Adom L’makom however… he obviously doesn’t seem religious.October 23, 2011 6:58 am at 6:58 am #820645
So maybe this is a question for a Rav. For right now, I don’t see the benefit to “make a chozek” of one specific person who lost his way. If your good friend (one who doesn’t exist) had a child who made the same decision, would you feel the same way?October 23, 2011 7:30 am at 7:30 am #820646ToiParticipant
the Chofetz Chaim says its a mitvza to speak bad about someone who went off the D and coulod be influential, in order to stop people from looking up to him. i got this psak from a rov when i asked about a family member in the same position and lchoirah it would apply here too.October 23, 2011 10:58 am at 10:58 am #820647lesschumrasParticipant
The original family name is Maza.October 23, 2011 11:37 am at 11:37 am #820648zahavasdadParticipant
Ive actually seen him at Selichos in a Young Israel and Ive seen him at at Mr Broadway (I had taken some out of town friends there and they were excited to see a real celebrity)
Unfortunately. Your story doesn’t check out. One doesn’t go from being a “Frum” rabbi to being a Mechallel Shabbos and “Ocheil neveilos U’treifos.
How about elisa ben avuyah?October 23, 2011 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #820649metrodriverMember
Zhavasdad; “Elisa” ben Avuyah; It’s Elisha. And there is a world of difference between “Elisa” and Elisha.
Kapusta; “Maybe it’s a question for a Rav”. With all the stupid trivia around, we would bother the rabbonim, they would never have time to learn Torah. I think it’s high time we should give the Rabbonim and Gedolei Yisroel a break and stop fardreying them a kup with our shtusim. Let’s leave the serious Sheilos for the Rabbonim and the rest we can discuss among each other.October 23, 2011 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #820650yitayningwutParticipant
Isn’t someone who abandons Torah and frumkeit a rasha who we should make chozek of?
??? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?????October 23, 2011 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #820651aries2756Participant
Since you don’t know his story, or his reasons and since you never hear him make choizek of frumkeit or yiddishkeit why would you think you would be allowed to make choizek of him? He happens to respect frum yidden. I have met him many times in Miami and he has tremendous pride in the Frum olam especially young people.October 23, 2011 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #820652HaLeiViParticipant
Fine. Let’s not make fun of him. Actually, nobody did. However, his story is interesting. What made him go off the Derech? (I’m not sure it took much to go off the Derech in earlier times.) That is a legitimate topic.October 23, 2011 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #820653HaLeiViParticipant
That story of him being a rabbi was one of his jokes. He said that he used to be a rabbi, and that when he would Darshen people would fall asleep. He therefore added some jokes. After seeing the great results he added more and more jokes, until he was left with just the jokes.October 23, 2011 6:17 pm at 6:17 pm #820654yitayningwutParticipant
He claims that he never wanted to become a rabbi and he just did it so not to disappoint his father. There are videos on YouTube in which he talks about it, I don’t know if the Mods will allow them but do a Google search.October 23, 2011 11:08 pm at 11:08 pm #820655Shticky GuyParticipant
He is nothing to look up to from a religious viewpoint, and I do not in any way respect him as a role model, but as a comedian he’s my sure favorite.
…You can swim in the ocean for nothing. But if you can see it from your hotel room, its an extra $100!October 23, 2011 11:56 pm at 11:56 pm #820656mik5Participant
Jackie Mason is very pro-Israel. Look him up on Wikipedia. He’s a Kahanist.October 24, 2011 12:00 am at 12:00 am #820657
Can the mods please remove lesschumras’ post, I highly doubt the family (who I know personally) in question wants such information made public.
i also know them, and it already is public. and they probably think its coolOctober 24, 2011 12:44 am at 12:44 am #820658
Just because it is fairly common knowledge doesn’t mean they’d want it publicized even more… but if you think they wouldn’t mind, forget it.
It’s also the first line on his wikipedia page “Born Yacov Moshe Maza in Sheboygan, Wisconsin, he grew up on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, New York City.
Mason graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree from the City College of New York. At age 25, he was ordained a rabbi (as his three brothers, father, grandfather, and great-grandfather had been) in Latrobe, Pennsylvania. Three years later he resigned to become a comedian.”October 24, 2011 1:59 pm at 1:59 pm #820659
Maybe one of you should invite him to a Rabbi Rietti lecture, who with his humor can bring him to do teshuva. Yes, he may not be interested but perhaps if exposed to what is available today he may change his mind.October 24, 2011 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #820660
Jackie Mason is the greatest wit out there. He still brings a yiddishe kupp to the world-at-large as a comedic genius while showing love for his heritage in the process. I can only assume he may have had some experience with something or someone either personally or spiritually which has temporarily turned him off, which can happen. We can only pray he finds his way back as soon as possible.October 24, 2011 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #820661GeshmakManParticipant
He is also a Kohen! Based on the fact that his nephew with the same last name is a Kohen 🙂October 24, 2011 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #820662chanieMember
BTGuy, While I agree with most of your assessment of Mason, 50 years of being off the derech can hardly be termed “Temporarily”.October 24, 2011 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #820663stuckMember
Mason can do teshuva until his dying breath.October 25, 2011 1:40 am at 1:40 am #820664mommamia22Participant
Just because something is posted on Wikipedia does not make it public knowledge in the frum world. Most people, presumably, would not spend their time searching the real last name of a comedian. I don’t believe there is any practical purpose to discussing this. If there is ANY shame brought upon this family by this thread, then all those who contribute partake in the aveira. It’s time to end this frivolous discussion.
If you truly want to spend your time being osek bemitzvos, please guide me with a problem I just became aware of, that can affect MANY (I will post, IY’H, on a follow-up thread).October 25, 2011 1:42 am at 1:42 am #820665
GeshmakMan – “He is also a Kohen! Based on the fact that his nephew with the same last name is a Kohen :)”
Maybe he isn’t because he hasn’t asked his Rabbi yet. Like the story goes -a guy went to an Orthodox Rabbi and said “Could you make me a Kohen? He replied “Of course not”. He went to a Conservative Rabbi and asked “Could you make me a Kohen? He replied “No, I can’t”. He then went to a Reform Rabbi and asked “Could you make me a Kohen? He replied -“For the right price. But why do you want to be a Kohen so bad for?” The guy answered -“Because my grandfather was one and my father was one, so I want to be one too!” Ta da!October 25, 2011 1:05 pm at 1:05 pm #820667gezuntheitMember
Old man: Someone not born frum might be a tinok shenishba. That excuse doesn’t apply here.October 25, 2011 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #820668
chanie T., your point is well taken. Perhaps once he gets back on, be”H, we can say his leave
was only temporary. Only he knows why he learned, dropped it to some degree, yet speaks
of Judaism proudly. Let’s pray he gets out of his quagmire.October 25, 2011 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #820670
old man -Couldn’t agree more. Until you have the capability like Bais Din Shel Maaloh, you don’t know e/o situation, so if he isn’t bothering you, why bother him? There are so many problems in the Frum community and e/o is busy sweeping it under the rug. If you want to busy with something, be busy with that. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, read some Goyishe newspapers.October 25, 2011 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #820672
Sometimes halacha tells us we should knock someone. Especially if that someone is influential. See Sefer Chofetz Chaim.October 25, 2011 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #820673
shein -“Sometimes halacha tells us we should knock someone.”
And who decided this is the case here?October 25, 2011 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm #820674AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
It is tragic where he has gone in his (lack of) observance but I did hear him say (and i can’t vouch for the truth of the statement) but he himself said that he has smicha from Rav Moshe.October 25, 2011 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #820675
That would make it much worse, if that be the case.October 25, 2011 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm #820676YW Moderator-42Moderator
I find it repulsive that a random person is publicly vilified on this site for no apparent reason
Where has anybody “vilified” him? They just mentioned that he was once frum and is no longer and want to know how/why that happened.October 25, 2011 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #820677ToiParticipant
old man- the Chofetz Chaim says its a mitvza to speak bad about someone who went off the D and coulod be influential, in order to stop people from looking up to him. when halachah calls for it then thats what youre supposed to do. your feelings dont make it wrong.October 25, 2011 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #820678October 26, 2011 12:34 am at 12:34 am #820679apushatayidParticipant
“the Chofetz Chaim says its a mitvza to speak bad about someone who went off the D and could be influential”
Is there such a concern with Mr. Mason?October 26, 2011 1:22 am at 1:22 am #820680
People are prone to be influenced that what Mason did — throw out the Torah and go for the glamour — was a good thing for him. After all, now he is world famous and full of glitz, and made a killing too financially. And one might C”V think, hey… maybe if I was a low-key rabbi in a little town that hardly anyone knew about, and I could suddenly turn myself into a superstar and make it big on the world-stage, I too would C”V do the same thing Mason did. So, yes, there is that danger. So we have to belittle it as much as possible and point out all the fallacies and evil in it.October 26, 2011 2:44 am at 2:44 am #820681
shein – Stop with your Narishkeit that you can curse out any Frei person just because you feel like it. If you read Arie’s post – “He happens to respect frum yidden. I have met him many times in Miami and he has tremendous pride in the Frum olam especially young people.”, you see clearly he isn’t trying to influence people to go off.
You’re just looking for excuses for your behavior. Futhermore, if by ranking him out -you are causing embarassment to his Frum family -you definitely don’t have any Heter to do so!October 26, 2011 3:02 am at 3:02 am #820682
Health: I’m sorry that you disagree with the Chofetz Chaim.October 26, 2011 3:44 am at 3:44 am #820683
shein – Wrong! I disagree with you that it applies here. Go ask a Rov, esp. since you can be Mevazeh his Frum family. Do you know what Chazal say on s/o who embarrasses others? Or do you only learn Chofetz Chaim (but he probably mentions the Chazals on this also)?
I originally posted against talking about him after the Old Man’s post. This Old Man has claimed and most believe him that he is an old time Poisek in EY. Don’t you think he knows this Chofetz Chaim? What leg do you have to stand on? A few anon. posters/mods that agree with you? You’re playing with fire!
B’ichvasah D’meschicha Chutzpah Yasgee!October 26, 2011 4:19 am at 4:19 am #820684MiddlePathParticipant
shein, I don’t think Health is disagreeing with the Chofetz Chaim. I think he is simply saying that such a “mitzvah” wouldn’t apply to Mason, as he showed from aries’ post. And I think Health is right.
Now, about this ruling of the Chofetz Chaim, I have a question. Instead of spending the time speaking badly about an influential “OTD” person to prevent others from following, wouldn’t it be more beneficial to spend that time trying to help such a person find their way back to Judaism? And even if that would be impossible, and someone is being influenced by such a person, wouldn’t it be better to show why such a lifestyle would be unsatisfactory instead of speaking negatively about the person himself? Also, if one gets accustomed to speaking badly about people, even in situations where it may be a “mitzvah”, it can G-d forbid possibly lead to making them more comfortable with speaking badly about people when it definitely isn’t a miztvah.October 26, 2011 5:20 am at 5:20 am #820685msseekerMember
“He is also a Kohen! Based on the fact that his nephew with the same last name is a Kohen :)”
That’s right. Mazeh (name of Moscow rav, BTW), spelled ???”?, stands for ???? ????.
Jackie Mason, a rabbi, a yachsan, a Kohen… Reminds me somehow of The Prince and the Pauper. Sad.October 26, 2011 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #820686
MiddlePath – I think if you see the Chofetz Chaim inside, this would clear up all your questions. Please look it up.October 26, 2011 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #820687
msseeker, The Prince and the Pauper analogy is excellent. Good one!
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