April 29, 2011 6:42 am at 6:42 am #596532Spoiler86Member
I just recently graduated with an accounting degree. I have just received a job interview with one of the top firms and really nervous/excited about it. However, as we all know, its sefira and I have a beard growing.
What do people here think? Should I shave or not? Will it make a difference?
Also, if possible give me some pointers on how to go about on these accounting job interviews with large firms.
Thanks in advance to everyoneApril 29, 2011 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #762723☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
What do people here think? Should I shave or not? Will it make a difference?
I’m not sure how the good folks in the CR would have a better idea about the environment in some unknown accounting firm than you do! Since you’re not sure, go back to your rov, tell him that you don’t have a good way to gauge the environment there, and ask how to proceed!
I don’t know how to interview for a large accounting firm, but one universal pointer about interviews: project confidence!
Hatzlachah!April 29, 2011 1:29 pm at 1:29 pm #762724ClairvoyantMember
Can you hold the no shaving/no music for the last 33 days of the sefira, instead of the first 33? That might be a way around this issue.April 29, 2011 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #762725A23Participant
If you’re asking what I would do, I would shave for an interview with a non-Jewish firm.April 29, 2011 1:37 pm at 1:37 pm #762726
As someone who works for a major accounting firm, I think that unless you have a frum interviewer, the person will likely be put off by a not well kept beard. i know it sounds silly, but maybe ask your rav if he thinks its better to shape your beard rather than shave it off fully.
the most important thing to think about when it comes to these interviews is to show why you are different than the rest of the applicants who all have the same background and good grades.
good luckApril 29, 2011 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #762727SJSinNYCMember
Will your beard be a real beard? Or will it look like a bad version of 5 oclock shadow?April 29, 2011 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #762728
FWIW, I was job hunting a number of years ago and had a job interview during either Sefirah or the three weeks (I don’t recall which now). I asked and was told that I should shave — and that was in tech, where being clean-shaven is not nearly as standard as in accounting.
Of course, keep in mind that my rav then (who is not my rav now) is (probably) not your rav, my situation is not yours and my p’sak is not yours.
The WolfApril 29, 2011 3:42 pm at 3:42 pm #762729rescue37Participant
I work in a large accounting firm. 90% of your interview is graded on appearance (no matter that they may be business casual or even in jeans when they interview you) and your interaction with the interviewers i.e. how well they think you will fit in working with them. Your skills out of school are basically the same as the other 100 people they are interviewing. You need to keep in mind that you are entering the goyish velt and must abide by thier rules as silly as they sound. Make sure you are groomed properly and your suit is pressed and your shoes shined. Depending on how you got the interview you they may or may not be aware of jewish sensitivities. Make sure you know 100% before you walk in the door how you will deal with shaking hands and other issues. You cannot show hesitation in your actions.April 29, 2011 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #762730double standardMember
What about wearing a yarmulke to an interview? What about having a Goyish name?April 29, 2011 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #762731
What about wearing a yarmulke to an interview? What about having a Goyish name?
I can’t speak about accounting, but in my experience (in tech) I have always worn a kippah to interviews. I do use my secular name, but simply because that’s the one that’s on my birth certificate, social security card and all other important paperwork.
The WolfApril 29, 2011 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #762732double standardMember
Do people think that in the legal world conformity is more important (than in accounting)?April 29, 2011 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #762733
I personally think its really silly that many of the frum guys I work with (who all come from a large Jewish town in south Jersey) go by a goyish name at work. Its one thing if people can’t pronounce a “ch” but ppl can all pronounce Shmuly, Shlomo Ari…. The koreans, muslims and japanese dont all choose to go by a diff name at work and those names are impossible to pronounceApril 29, 2011 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #762734rescue37Participant
Wearing a yarlmuke may depend on where you are interviewing. In NYC it should not make a difference as they are aware that that is what ortodix jews wear on their head. A jewish name is no different than any har to pronounce chinese, indian or muslim name. I have a friend who had on campus recruiting from all the big 6 (at that time) firms. He wore a yarmulke to 5 of the interviews and was offered a position from the 6th interview where he didn’t wear a yarmulke. Each case is different but the interviwee needs to do his research on the firm and who he is meeting to make these decissions. There is no one answer for all.April 29, 2011 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #762735
I personally think its really silly that many of the frum guys I work with (who all come from a large Jewish town in south Jersey) go by a goyish name at work. Its one thing if people can’t pronounce a “ch” but ppl can all pronounce Shmuly, Shlomo Ari…. The koreans, muslims and japanese dont all choose to go by a diff name at work and those names are impossible to pronounce
True story… as it happened to me.
When I got my first job, it was at a place owned and operated by frum Jews. As such, I used my Jewish name (which is what I use socially as well).
About three months, I got called into the office because the IRS came back to them and said that the first name attached to my social security number is different than the first name I gave them. It took some paperwork to fix the problem.
Since then, I’ve found that it’s much simpler to just use my secular name at work.
The WolfApril 29, 2011 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #762736CharlieSmallMember
I agree with your first post about appearance as you don’t get a 2nd chance to make a 1st impression, and I do believe that he should shave.
However, I disagree regarding your second post, as a lot of the Asians, Muslims etc change their name for work purposes only. I am an accountant also and I have worked with a “Bob” from Pakistan and a Jay from China and believe me those were not their legal names.April 29, 2011 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #762737YW Moderator-80Member
similarly i worked with a guy with a name pretty close to budawahadra, dont recall exactly. he always introduced himself as “bud”
i think those with names difficult to pronounce by others usually do this, it is very annoying and even problematic otherwise for themselves.
i suspect those that dont do so use their difficult name either out of pride or obstinacy.April 29, 2011 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #762738
At my firm I work with tens of Koreans all of whom go by their real names. Also, the Indians go by those names. I am not saying that you have to officially use your real name as your email, you could still put your legal name on that but is Shaindy and Shlomo so hard to pronounce?April 29, 2011 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #762739popa_bar_abbaParticipant
What doesn’t he know? We all know what the environment in an accounting firm is. And besides, it would be crazy to show up for an interview at starbucks unshaven.
He should either allow you to shave or not, depending on what he thinks the halacha is.
I would shave.April 29, 2011 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #762743Bar ShattyaMember
Why do you first suggest the OP should get clarity from the rav and then say you would just do it?!April 29, 2011 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #762744☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Why do you first suggest the OP should get clarity from the rav and then say you would just do it?!
I guess he would pasken for himself.April 29, 2011 8:09 pm at 8:09 pm #762745Ctrl Alt DelParticipant
Unfortunately I have to shave for my job And I always feel guilty about it during sefira and other times of the year. So I kind of made my own compromise. I shave with a beard trimmer without the plastic length selector cover. Its a panasonic model and without the cover it shaves pretty close. So I look shaved but if you were to touch my face it would feel rough. Its kind of my way of shaving but not taking advantage and going completely “clean”. Who knows? Try it maybe it will be sufficient.April 29, 2011 10:01 pm at 10:01 pm #762746Spoiler86Member
The firm I’m interviewing with is Grant Thornton if that helps in terms of anyone here knowing the environment there.
I think I’m going to shave for the interview but definitely wear my yarmulke.
Thanks everyone for the help/suggestions/comments.April 29, 2011 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #762748zahavasdadParticipant
Grant Thorton is a prestigious firm.
I would not show up there unshaven.May 1, 2011 2:30 am at 2:30 am #762749
I also work for a large accounting firm. You certainly should shave, no question about it. You should try not to flaunt your jewishness (obviously don’t hide it)May 1, 2011 2:32 am at 2:32 am #762750
Ctr Alt Del, once you are shaving, what does it matter? There is no difference from a halacha perspectiveMay 1, 2011 2:33 am at 2:33 am #762751
Mods – why is Popa blocked? I like to see his pearls of wisdomMay 1, 2011 2:39 am at 2:39 am #762752
OP – why don’t you ask you rav to figure it out. it is not such a difficult questionMay 1, 2011 3:06 am at 3:06 am #762753boredinofficeParticipant
I have started my career in accounting and have since moved on to private and can tell you that you should with fair certanty shave ( I am not a rov but am familiar with the firm) it is not a heimeshe business and thus you do need to look your finest. With regards to the yarmulkah, most industries in NY have no issues with yarmulkahs. Some lawyers do not wear them but otherwise most people in mmost industries do.
With regards to an english name, I use an english name as it is might simpler to introduce to people regardless of whether there is a “CH” in the name. I do not shave now but if I have meetings then I will shave depending on who I am meeting with including people that i work with. You need to find a level that you are comfortable with and try to stick to it.May 1, 2011 3:40 am at 3:40 am #762754s2021Member
(disclaimer: I am not a rabbi)May 1, 2011 3:49 am at 3:49 am #762755ShrekMember
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