August 9, 2012 1:07 am at 1:07 am #604484Flatbush DudeMember
1. Air traffic controllers
2. General and operations managers
3. Construction manager
4. Transportation, storage, and distribution managers
5. First-line supervisors of police and detectives
6. Radiation therapist
7. Administrative services managers
8. Nuclear power reactor operators
9. Elevator installers and repairers
10. Power distributors and dispatchers
Obviously, these jobs are not everyone. But we all know that many frum men lack the typical college degree and this list could be useful for those wanting good-paying jobs without getting a Bachelor’s degree. I think that #1, 4, 6, & 7 are very practical for the average Jewish man (or woman).August 9, 2012 6:16 am at 6:16 am #890464KozovMember
I wonder if 6(?) and 7 are permitted.August 9, 2012 11:05 am at 11:05 am #890465Ragachovers AssistantMember
1. Velgeren Matzos at the Shatser Matzah Bakery…….
5. Baal Koreh
6.a- Metizezh B’peh
6.b- Metizeh B’klei
7. Collecting at all Shuls at all times
8. Insurance Fraud
9. Real Estate Fraud
10. Ripping people off (of all sorts)
12. Stam a Tummler
etc.August 9, 2012 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #890466
A whole range of skilled trades and occupations is in desperate undersupply in the U.S. and (more important!) in Israel. Many are related to healthcare (Israel has the most overstrained hospitals in the developed world). Learn one of these occupations, make a good living, and do pikuah nefesh full-time.August 9, 2012 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #890467
And one more: become fluent in a foreign language. America is notorious for its lack of foreign-language skills and Israel isn’t far behind. You’ll qualify for all sorts of service jobs. I have the credentials to say this: I’ve made a great living in Israel for 30 years just by having mastered Hebrew, and the only course I took was a basic ulpan. Kollel men have presumably gone through this in Hebrew and Aramaic.August 9, 2012 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm #890468optimusprimeMember
You forgot Rosh Yeshiva or Rebbi.August 9, 2012 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #890469
So here’s another option: Fargo, North Dakota. There, anyone who shows up with half a mind gets hired for the energy boom. I’m not saying that an individual frustrated kollel man should move there without his family. I favor aliya. This aside, I think several thousand frustrated kollel men should move there with their families.August 9, 2012 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #890470WolfishMusingsParticipant
You may not have noticed it, but most of those jobs are managerial jobs. In other words, you generally have to have been working in the trade for several years before you can qualify for the job. You can’t walk in off the street with no experience in the construction business and say that you want to be a construction manager.* In this case, it’s simply replacing the years in college with years of work experience.
* Well, I suppose you can, but odds are well against you getting the job.August 9, 2012 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #8904712scentsParticipant
You might consider your self funny, however your post is inappropriate.August 9, 2012 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #890472Josh31Participant
Flatbush Dude, most of those jobs you listed involve being willing and able to work on Shabbos. Trucks, airplanes and elevators operate on Shabbos here in the US. Most legal and accounting problems generally can wait for Monday morning.August 9, 2012 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #890473shlishiMember
Josh: That’s incorrect. Almost none of the jobs require working 7 days a week. Once can choose Shabbos as one of their two off days.
IT systems also runs 24/7. Yet the tens of thousands of frum IT professionals do not work on Shabbos.August 9, 2012 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #890474popa_bar_abbaParticipant
President of the US pays 400k, and comes with a free house. No degree necessary.August 9, 2012 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #890475Sam2Participant
RA: Hal’vai that I could make a living as a Ba’al Korei.August 9, 2012 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #890476ItcheSrulikMember
Naftush: Israel has plenty of translators. Most of them are out of work, not because there is no need but because so many Israelis think they are fluent in whatever their grandparents spoke.
RA: If only I could make a living writing sifrei Torah during the week and reading them on Shabbos.
Shlishi: As a frum IT professional, I can say that you will find relatively few frum CTO’s because at a certain level of seniority the company will demand that you be on call on shabbos.August 9, 2012 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #890477Josh31Participant
IT professionals generally have at least a Bachelor’s degree; and they are harder to find than people for the 10 jobs listed above. Hence, when they ask to take Shabbos off, their request is more likely to be granted. A large part of the pay for these 10 jobs listed above comes from their willingness to work weekends.August 10, 2012 5:06 am at 5:06 am #890478
ItcheSrulik, I was told around 1980 that Israel has plenty of translators and I walked through an open door. Today there may be 20 people in the country who can translate academic/economic material into English properly and are available to do it. Israel has plenty of nothing except maybe yeshiva men (fine, go ahead and disagree). It releases terror suspects because it doesn’t have enough Arabic speakers to interrogate them. It discharges patients from hospitals because it hasn’t got enough beds and skilled workers to serve them, including doctors. On and on. I used to keep a Word file of occupations that are shorthanded; I stopped because it got to be too much trouble. I’m not referring to top-level managerial posts but to taken-for-granted things that require certification at the most but no degree. And it’s true for the US too.August 10, 2012 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #890479Ragachovers AssistantMember
Please remove my earlier post, 2scents is correct!!!
2scents commented on my comment;
“You might consider your self funny, however your post is inappropriate.”
I took another look at what I wrote and I agree with 2scents.
I wrote it in haste!
2scents Thank you!August 10, 2012 12:45 pm at 12:45 pm #890480akupermaParticipant
1. You don’t start as a manager (unless its a family owned business).
2. From a “frum” perspective, the same issues in a B.A. or B.S. arise in getting an associate’s degree, or even a training program at a college. Most of the problems for frum people also arise in a non-academic apprenticeship program if it is one run by and primarily serving goyim. Most of the jobs listed in the first posting require some form of academic training, or some form of apprenticeship – which are not available within our community.
3. With no formal academic training outside of yeshiva/seminary, one can often get an entry level job in the medical field (as an assistant to an assistant doing jobs professionals refuse to do – such as helping people use the bathroom). Retailing at the lowest level is usually an open field, and if you are good, you can rise (think Walmart’s, or a pushcart operator growing the business into a major chain) . The military requires no training or experience. Almost all the jobs taken by illegal immigrants since American citizens refuse to do them can be taken by anyone who has no training (manual labor, food service, gardening, house cleaning, child care).
4. If you don’t like the idea of going to “college” (or any other goyish school or trainng program), you probably don’t want to work with and for goyim. That usually means working solely within the Jewish community. In return for low pay, you don’t have to worry about Shabbos, Kashrut or being in an environmnt with widespread dubious sexual behaviors (some of which are illegal, some not). For much of the frum community, the hassles of working for the goyim aren’t worth the money.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.