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I’ve always been troubled that it is said that when looking for a wife, one should first look at her brother(s). The problem that I’ve had with this is that the brothers could have had ‘problems’ altho’ they’re good-hearted, loving, & just possibly as someone else said: “FFB/TAB”- frum from birth/taking a break.” The girl can be a tzaddekes.
can the class please discuss?
i will be glad to address this issue. I have personal experience. Here is the problem. the brother may be a wonderful boy with issues you think you can deal with or dimsiss. However< and this is a big however, you must understand that the issue is that the children often come out with the middos of the brother. and often times it is very difficult for parents to interact with a child who has “foreign: middos, meaning they are not middos you have been raised with in your family, and have no experience dealing with. If you do not like what you see in the siblings and parents, remember that it is true you arent marrying them, but you WILL have a child with some or all of those middos. MOST LIKELY
i agree with jl. i think it is brought down in the gemora that a woman’s children will have the same middos as her brother(s). that’s why ppl look at a girls brother when considering marrying her.
always here, not a hard and fast 100% rule. but definitely one consideration amongst many.
There is a letter from the Steipler Gaon that the gamarah “roiv banim hoilchin acher achei haeim” was only relavent when girls used to be only in the house and their brothers were their only influence, but today girls can be influence from their freinds and teachers so even if she has a brother that is not the best baal middos she should not be judged accordingly.
So, bo this logic, no one would have married a sister of Yaacov because of Esov
what happens if the girl doesnt have a brother???
So, by this logic, no one would have married a sister of Yaacov because of Esov
Well, esav’s mother’s brother was lavan. And look how esav turned out.
pba- But she had Yaakov too!
As a brother who I’m sure is being looked @ the one thing I will say is that just because the sibling is not as “yeshivish” as the girl does not make them a bad person. i.e. just because a girl has brothers that are in college(gasp) and plan on working(gasp) but also daven with a minyan three times a day, have sedorim, wear a hat etc…doesn’t mean you should overlook her.
PBA. So its a 50/50 proposition at best. Yackov had the same “mothers brother” and he did ok for himself.
Either way, you shouldn’t judge the girls brother. You shouldn’t judge the girl either. In fact you shouldn’t judge anyone unless it is likaf zchus.
PBA. So its a 50/50 proposition at best. Yackov had the same “mothers brother” and he did ok for himself.
Whatever; if you want half your kids to be esav, go ahead. Even tay sachs is only 1 in 4.
Yitzchak didn’t mind the odds.
I asked this question to a rav who said that it depends on the family. If all the children are products of their home then yes, looking into their brother would be relevant. However, there are so many (if not most) families with children that are self-made to either extreme. I have a friend who’s brother’s going OTD but she is a terrific girl. In such a case, that one brother wouldn’t make a difference (she has many more good brothers).
wasnt the gemora written after eisev?? so obviously that was taken into account and stil written. and doesnt it say to take this factor into account?
Why ask others does it work in your own family? Are you the same as your mother’s brother. My kids are nothing like my brother. As far as OTD is concerned, the best of the best families, the most chashuv of Rabbonim these days are going through the same nisyonos in this area as any other parents who are on different madreigas. Would you use the same formula for judging a girl if she was the daughter of a very chashuv family or Rav even if one of her brothers were currently OTD?
Personally I would say check into the girl and her parents to see who her role models are. Check into her friends to see the crowd she hangs with. That is more important.
I was talking about middos not whether he is OTD or in college or not yeshivish, those are other issues you might want to take into considration. but middos are the things that come out in the children. and its not just the brothers its the parents and sisters too. I would look at a family you are considering marrying into and ask yourself if they possess qualities you are able to deal with. If the answer is no I think you are asking for trouble
i think that since middos are hereditary you can assume that the middos that the brother has, the sister has (if they are fromm the same parents). and since boys are usually more outgoing and loud, its easier to see what those middos are. Hpwever it is perfectly fine to go out with a girl that’s brother is otd because he might have a story which she doesnt.
Why stop at the brothers or even the parents? Why not demand that the entire mishpacha, aunts, uncle, cousins, grandparents on both sidea be available for a quick study of their middos, too?
Should a girl whose brother(s) are not up to your standards, not be good enough for you even if she herself is a prize jewel in every way? it’s time to stop over-analyzing everything, and start evaluating a person based on his/her own merits.
Should a girl whose brother(s) are not up to your standards, not be good enough for you even if she herself is a prize jewel in every way? it’s time to stop over-analyzing everything, and start evaluating a person based on his/her own merits.
See Rashi, Shemos, 6-23
i think that since middos are hereditary…..
What makes you think so? I cannot say that my sister and I are alike in any way, nor my brother either yet we come from the same home and the same parents. And although my mother and her sisters were alike because of their upbringing and life experience (not hereditary) my father and his brother were not alike.
Middos are not hereditary. Nobody is geneticly programmed to be a boor.
What if a girl has two brothers. One a walking mesilas yesharim, the other with the middos of a skunk, which brother he children be most like?
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