September 20, 2018 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #1595099
Chickens at a slaughterhouse are not fed before being slaughtered. You want their stomachs to be empty. Kaporas are no different.
Those claiming they’re all thrown out are lying through their teeth. It is just not true. Of course there are always some neveilos & treifos, which have to be thrown out; the same is true at slaughterhouses, or anywhere chickens are processed. But these numbers are obviously small; these are not the kaporos chickens, since if your chicken is neveila or treifa you are not yotzei and have to do it again.
With the kosher chickens, as many as possible are processed on erev yomtov and the day after. Of course any left over that could not be processed within 72 hours of shechita have to be thrown out, so probably you will see some in the garbage tomorrow. There is nothing else to do with them. (No, City Harvest will not take them.)
Of course it is the operators’ responsibility to clean up the site when they’re done with it, or to arrange for it to be cleaned up. But so long as the mess left behind is no worse than is routinely left by parades and other public events, there can be no talk of chilul hashem. In Crown Heights just before Rosh Hashana there’s always the West Indian parade, which leaves a lot more mess than kaporos does.
The poskim’s concern about the kashrus of the shechita is no longer an issue, because the rabbonim have taken it in hand. I have personally seen rabbonim at 4 or 5 in the morning checking the shochtim’s chalofim.September 20, 2018 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #1595097shimenParticipant
the chillil hashem is only to the rishay yisroel… PETA….etc .no gentile ever was bothered with this minhuk…like muslims and thier tradison….its the same kind of risay yisroel that give us tzaris with metzitze, mila , seprate seating, etc etc ‘ and your destroyers will come from within you’September 21, 2018 12:35 am at 12:35 am #1595149
Milhouse, I’d love to believe you. But none of the photos here on YWN show anything that indicates these animals are being processed for food. The films showing sanitation workers cleaning up show bags of dead chickens piled high and some exploding as the garbage truck mashes them down. None of the yiddin on the scene are doing anything about picking of the mess which is on a public street. I would love to see a well run kaparos stand. Do you have a website you can recommend?September 21, 2018 12:35 am at 12:35 am #1595145Bshtei_EinayimParticipant
I’m glad Amil’s agenda on this site is now clear for everyone to see. Wish people would be more honest and transparent instead of trying to fake it…September 21, 2018 1:23 am at 1:23 am #1595197Jersey JewParticipant
The עמי הארץ are out in full force here. May I suggest you learn some of Maseches Chulin to find out what tzaar baalay Chaim might be and what it isn’t.September 21, 2018 1:23 am at 1:23 am #1595195
Yes my agenda is clear. I expect adults to clean up the messes they make in public. Argue all you want, you can kill as many chickens as you like. Just clean up after yourself. That’s not so hard is it? We raise our children not to make messes and to clean up after themselves. Why is this so hard for adults to do?September 21, 2018 1:24 am at 1:24 am #1595193🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Oh please! Asking people not to be slobs, disrespectful or filthy is an agenda?September 21, 2018 3:30 am at 3:30 am #1595204
“The films showing sanitation workers cleaning up show bags of dead chickens piled high and some exploding as the garbage truck mashes them down.”
This is simply not true. There are no such films. These are bags of ordinary garbage, including some dead chickens.
There may be some small operations that can’t find anyone to process the few chickens they have, so they have to throw them out, but it is absolutely not the normal case. All the big operations have people working all night erev yomtov and all day motzei yomtov cleaning and kashering as many chickens as they can, so they won’t have to be thrown out when the 72-hour deadline comes.
Even if they were thrown out, though, I don’t see how that is anyone’s business, or why anyone would have a problem with it. Let’s suppose that the cost of processing the chickens in time is greater than their value; in that case it would make sense to throw them out. It would in fact be bal tashchis to spend so much money to salvage them that with the same money you could buy more fresh chickens when you need them. Usually that’s not the situation, but if for some reason it is then throwing them out would be the right thing to do.September 21, 2018 7:56 am at 7:56 am #1595221Bshtei_EinayimParticipant
Sorry Amil, but lying that every kaparos stand is messy and is unkind to animals shows that you have actual disregard for truth in order to achieve an agenda that is insensitive to a religious group that in general is using and treating chickens per normal standards is simply disengenous, dishonest, anti religious and shows a lack of understanding of people that are different then you.September 21, 2018 11:19 am at 11:19 am #1595230
“This is simply not true. There are no such films. These are bags of ordinary garbage, including some dead chickens.”
Herein lies the real problem.
Because of the motives of many (most? all?) of the anti-kapporas protesters correctly identified by akuperma
We are unable to acknowledge nay fault on our end, or any way that we can improve.
Amil is making what should otherwise be a normal request “But care for those creatures appropriately and knowledgeably. Clean up your mess,” gets attacked. How on earth is that statement even controversial?
I grant that the “activists” hate us, but have we lost our minds?
As for the garbage the vast majority of chickens end up in the garbage, arguably using them for kapporas is still a use and this isnt baal tashcis particularly if as millhouse points out the cost of processing is more than the demand for the chckens
Bu c’mon why deny it one poster says ” “This is simply not true. There are no such films” There are plenty google it they are freely available to see. (Eg see “Trash Bags Full of Dismembered ‘Kaporos’ Chickens Spill Onto Brooklyn Street”)
how often do you see a fridge at a kaporos center. It was 80 degrees last week. how long do people think the chickens shechted in the morning and sit around all day are still edible. cmon think a little
Just because they are anti-semites doesnt mean we have to stick our heads in the sandSeptember 21, 2018 11:39 am at 11:39 am #1595245DovidBTParticipant
The Jews who perform kaparos using chickens could team up with an organization that collects the “used” chickens as soon as the ritual has been completed. The organization would then “process” the chickens to prepare meals for homeless people or other people in need.
Maybe the same organization could also provide a “humane” storage area for the live chickens prior to kaparos.
If no such organization exists, one could be created for this purpose.September 21, 2018 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #1595325
Dovid I think your suggestion is admirable. It would be heartening to see Masbia benefit from these chickens. 4H is alive and well in NYC, they may be a good resource for assistance in caring for the birds. They also do outreach to schools, both public and private. 4H and their members (and the state Extension Service) could teach Jewish youth the proper care for these animals. Wouldn’t everyone be happier if the news coverage of Kaparos in NYC showed some positive improvements?
Will it eliminate PETA protests? Probably not since most of those folks are anti meat, but the general public could see that Jews practicing this ritual do care about the animals they sacrifice both before and after the ritual.September 23, 2018 1:54 am at 1:54 am #1595486
ubiquitin, it is simply not true that most of the chickens are thrown out. The vast majority are processed within 72 hours and then frozen for future use. If it made economic sense to throw them out then that would be the right thing to do, but most of the time it doesn’t make sense, so it doesn’t happen.
You don’t see a fridge at kaporos operations — but neither do you see piles of shechted chickens waiting to be dealt with. The shechted chickens are regularly collected and taken somewhere to be processed.September 23, 2018 9:08 am at 9:08 am #1595528
“but neither do you see piles of shechted chickens waiting to be dealt with. ”
Um yes you do if you care to look.
As I said you can still see them if you like.
Google is your friend.
How long do you think shechted chicken lasts in the sun?
How many times a day are these invisible “regular collections” taking them “somewhere” to be processed? That’s a lot of invisible refrigerated trucks you’re imagining driving around BrooklynSeptember 23, 2018 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #1595634shimenParticipant
you say ‘your religion’ so we know who we are dealing with…not that we did see with who by your postingsSeptember 28, 2018 7:43 am at 7:43 am #1596904
ubiquitin, what trucks? The chickens are collected and taken indoors to be processed. Why would you need a truck for that? You simply fill up a garbage bag and take it inside.September 28, 2018 8:31 am at 8:31 am #1596938
Millhouse are you trolling?
You are just making this up as you go along.
Aren’t you at least curious where all those chickens go? You first say “taken somewhere” now “taken indoors”
There’s no need to guess. Ask and also think. Years past i did it in front of munkatch on 47 st and 14th ave. I’m not sure where you think they went. Not into munkatch that’s for sure. I havent been to 770 though I doubt it gets converted into a shlacht hauz pre Yom kippur.September 30, 2018 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #1597301
Ubiquitin, the chickens are taken to a site, which of course is indoors, where people are working most of erev yomtov and all of the day after yomtov to process them. That is what happens. I know because I have seen it, but even without seeing it I would know simply because it makes no sense for this not to happen. How can you imagine that anyone would throw out valuable property when they are able to hire people to preserve its value? Any Econ 101 student knows that this is impossible, because the moment such an economic niche opens someone will move into it.
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