October 11, 2012 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1169239
wouldn’t it be great to revive this thread!
Q. Why didn’t Odom or Chava eat from the eitz hachaim?October 11, 2012 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #1169240
Who says they wouldn’t have eventually? Thats why Hashem kicked them out of the Gan to stop them from eating from the eitz hachaim. Also, there was no attraction to it because they werent forbidden from eating of it and they would have gotten around to it eventually.
Lets look at the sequence of events, in the first hour, his [Adam’s] dust was gathered; in the second, it was kneaded into a shapeless mass. In the third, his limbs were shaped; in the fourth, a soul was infused into him; in the fifth, he arose and stood on his feet; in the sixth, he gave [the animals] their names; in the seventh, Eve became his mate; in the eighth, they ascended to bed as two and descended as four; in the ninth, he was commanded not to eat of the tree, in the tenth, he sinned. This all happened in a few short hours so really he may have eaten from the eitz hachaim eventually given the time to do so.October 12, 2012 1:06 am at 1:06 am #1169241
Alright, WIY, I’ll accept that ?????.
??? ??October 12, 2012 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #1169242
accoording to rashi the reason breishis is in the beginning instead of hachodesh hazeh is so that the goyi cant claim we “stole” eretz yisrael. If that is the reason what do the goyim care what OUR TORAH says and if you say the answer is for us I have a better answer canaan stole it from sheim so we are taking it backOctober 14, 2012 12:18 am at 12:18 am #1169243simcha613Participant
What’s pshat with the rakia separating the upper waters and the lower waters? Poshut pshat and the way Rashi seems to understand it is that the lower waters are the oceans and rivers and the upper waters is this (presumably floating) storehouse of water in the sky which is where rain comes from. From a scientific perspective this is not true. There is no storehouse of water in the sky. Rain is recycled from the oceans via the clouds. I’m okay with Rashi being incorrect about science, but how else can we understand this passage in the Torah?October 14, 2012 1:22 am at 1:22 am #1169244ShowjoeMember
WIY: there are those who say 1 day then isnt 1 day now (much longer) this would also apply by hoursOctober 14, 2012 1:46 am at 1:46 am #1169245
You are welcome. If you hear of another please share.
True but it doesnt change the pshat.October 14, 2012 4:04 am at 4:04 am #11692462qwertyParticipant
I like your question and here is another question on Rashi…
In Noach it seems Rashi is assuming that Ararat is the tallest mountain in the world?October 14, 2012 4:47 am at 4:47 am #1169247oomisParticipant
Well it certainly must have been the tallest in that region.October 14, 2012 6:58 am at 6:58 am #1169248CuriosityParticipant
Simcha613 – I also often have problems understanding the Torah and chazal literally, especially when it’s clearly contradicted by our reality, like in the case you mention. However, Chazal say that before the Mabul the atmosphere was completely different. Also, Gan Eden was not necessarily similar to the natural world that we live in today. Nonetheless, I’m sure there is a much more profound explanation to the Torah’s narrative of creation – one that we are not yet privey to understand.October 15, 2012 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #1169249
simcha613- i believe the gemora (chagiga) tells us that we don’t really understand/know pshat in the “Upper waters”.October 15, 2012 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #1169250gavra_at_workParticipant
Why was Hashem worried that Adam would eat from the Eitz HaChaim & live forever? After all, as the Ribbono Shel Olam, He could just kill off Adam whenever He felt it appropriate.
Thanks.October 15, 2012 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #1169251
As it is a new week I will start the next parsha, but we can still discuss any question that was posed on Bereishis
Q. Was the rainbow Hashem created (bein hashmoshos on the first erev shabbos -pirkei avos) as a sign for Noach, different than any other rainbow? If it was, how so? If not, isn’t a rainbow a natural phenomenon anyway, so surely this wasn’t the first rainbow to appear?? why was it so miraculous/special to create this with the other special list of stuff bein hashmoshos, if it was just a simple ordinary rainbow?October 15, 2012 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1169252
Who said anything about being miraculous? Of course it is natural but it depends on some circumstances that don’t have to be there. At that point the nature was tweaked to have the rainbow appear.
Check out the Ramban and the Gur Arye (among many others).October 16, 2012 12:29 am at 12:29 am #1169253Sam2Participant
GAW: I asked my father that. He said that one of the rules of nature that HKBH set up was that someone who eats from the Eitz Hachayim will live forever. Thus, even though He can abrogate that, He usually limits himself to the laws of nature that he set up.October 16, 2012 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #1169254
Rashi never said that the rains come from the waters above. If he says it somewhere please tell me where. Be very careful in learning and quoting Rishonim.October 17, 2012 5:03 am at 5:03 am #1169255
The Christians believe in the Old Testament which is our Torah so they believe that God gave EY to the Jews.
Where did you see that Canaan stole EY from Shem? As fas as I know he was king of Yerushalayim as long as he lived.October 17, 2012 1:04 pm at 1:04 pm #1169256
I asked my rav my question on Noach yesterday, and he pointed me to a fascinating Ya’aros Devash where R’ Yonosson Eibeschitz says that the Keshes in Parshas Noach is in fact a different type of rainbow. It is a rainbow completely of Techeiless color. And as a reminder, the word Techeiless is of the same root word as Kalei (destroy/destruction), which is what HKB”H would do to the world if not for this Bris HaKeshes.
My only problem is with this is, which I only thought about later on, is why then do we recite a brocho on our colorful rainbow that we see if it isn’t the authentic ??? of the Bris HaKeshes?
Out of curiousity, I googled ‘different types of rainbows’ and came up with a few different kinds, but none was a blue/green rainbow 🙁October 17, 2012 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #1169257gavra_at_workParticipant
GAW: I asked my father that. He said that one of the rules of nature that HKBH set up was that someone who eats from the Eitz Hachayim will live forever. Thus, even though He can abrogate that, He usually limits himself to the laws of nature that he set up.
WADR, that really makes no sense. If Hashem is willing to make the murderer walk under the ladder at the same time the Shogeg is going up, he can arrange that the eater trip on a rock and shatter into a gazillion pieces, or have his head chopped off, or fall into a pot of boiling water, etc. Unless you want to say that eating from the Eitz HaChaim changed the physical nature of a person (less biologic, more like a malach), then that doesn’t make any sense to me.October 17, 2012 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #1169258Sam2Participant
WIY: It’s a Machlokes Tannaim in Ta’anis. I don’t know if Rashi Paskens one way or the other anywhere, but it’s not ridiculous to think he would say that.October 17, 2012 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #1169259
But in chumash he makes no mention of it and from the pashut reading of Rashi it seems clear that the water above is way up there higher than the clouds.October 17, 2012 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #1169260
The Christians believe in the Old Testament which is our Torah so they believe that God gave EY to the Jews.
Where did you see that Canaan stole EY from Shem? As fas as I know he was king of Yerushalayim as long as he lived.
if Bereishis was meant for the Christians (which I don’t think it was, I think it was for the nations before Christianity, being that Christianity doesn’t have that tayna on us) then we still don’t need to start with Bereishis because of what I mentioned before
as to where do you see Canaan stole from sheim it’s in next weeks Parsha that when Avraham starts to move to Eretz Canaan (12:6) the passuk says “and Canaan was in the land” and Rashi says “Canaan was capturing it from the descendants of sheim…” I’m not going to quote the whole Rashi look at it yourself, however it seems like it was a davaar yoduaOctober 18, 2012 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1169261
1) Technically this isn’t a ‘kasha on the parsha’, because i’m gonna include a tirutz, but here goes:
?? ?? ????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??…
Noach was from those of Little Faith, he sort-of-believed…
Q: ?? was a ???? ???? – why didn’t he go in? And what is ??? in the fact that he was ????? ??????
A: You put the commas wrong in ??”?. Read it like this:
??? ?? ????? ????? ??? ?????–> Noach believed even in those of little faith (i.e. that they would do ?????
????? ????? ???? ????? –> And therefore did not believe that the flood would come
And therefore didn’t enter the ???? until the waters pushed him in!!!
(????? ?????, I think)October 18, 2012 10:22 pm at 10:22 pm #1169262
2) There is an apparent ????? in ??”? – First ??”? says that “Any place where idolatry or adultery is found, ?????????? ?? ?????…”
THE NEXT ??”?: The final verdict was given only after stealing.
???October 18, 2012 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm #1169263Rav TuvParticipant
The final verdict was for stealing but were also guilty of A”Z and G”A. No stira at all.October 19, 2012 5:03 am at 5:03 am #1169264
The ???? ???? was because of idolatry and adultery but the decision to act was because of Gezel.October 19, 2012 5:16 am at 5:16 am #1169265
Your Terutz on Noach is a cute Pshetl, but if the Kasha bothers you as it bothered me you would want a real answer as to how you can call someone who worked for 120 years in the face of ridicule and scorn, a Ktan Emuna.
The answer is that he obviously believed in Hashem and His abilities. However, he just couldn’t imagine it would really happen. He figured that in the last minute things would turn out, they’d get another chance, or they’ll all do Teshuva(, or it’ll turn out to be color war). Not unlike the way a child doesn’t take a parent’s threat seriously.October 19, 2012 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1169266
The final verdict was for stealing but were also guilty of A”Z and G”A. No stira at all.
So without stealing the Flood would have come or wouldn’t have come?October 19, 2012 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #1169267
So without stealing the Flood would have come or wouldn’t have come?
I hope you wrote that before seeing my response.October 21, 2012 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #1169268
Halevi – saw the answer – thanx. Just the answer from musser zoger didn’t answer the question.October 21, 2012 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #1169269oomisParticipant
In a shiur which my Rov gives early Sunday AMs on Rav Dessler’s writings), he told us that it was not that the people made fun of Noach because they didn’t believe a flood was coming. On the contrary, the DID believe, and therefor built strong homes and fortresses to protect themselves. But they laughed at that foolish Noach spending 120 years building an Ark out of the flimsiest wood and a little tar, thinking it could possibly withstand a torrential downpour. That’s where the derision lay. And boy were they ever shocked when his flimsy vessel held his family and all those thousands of species of animals safe from the Mabul, as their own reinforced “safe houses” broke apart and they all drowned.
It is very interesting to me, as my rov pointed out in R’ Dessler’s teachings, that Noach who was called “ish tzaddik” was not a baal chessed UNTIL he was forced to do daily chessed in caring for all the animals. A tzaddik will give tzedaka to whomever ask him. A baal chessed will go out looking for people to whom he can give tzedaka. That’s why Noach was not in the same league as Avraham Avinu, the paradigm of chessed. It also explains why Noach actually made a tikkun Olam through the chessed of taking care of the animals. His act was one of giving. The “chamas” (which is quoted as the ultimate straw that broke the camel’s back, resulting in Hashem’s decisiion to cleanse the world through the Mabul), were people’s repeated acts of rationalized “gezel,” of stealing from each other. That taking, was why the world needed to be destroyed. It merited being renewed through Noach’s act of giving on a daily all-day basis.October 21, 2012 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #1169270
“The ???? ???? was because of idolatry and adultery but the decision to act was because of Gezel.”
So which one is worse?October 22, 2012 6:13 am at 6:13 am #1169271
The first two.October 22, 2012 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #1169272
that was very nice. Perhaps you can even add, that Hashem purposely made Noach be busy in such a manner during this time because Hashem was now “starting over” again, and “Olam Chesed Yiboneh” was a vital principal in creating His world.October 26, 2012 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #1169273
PARSHAS LECH LECHA
I was always bothered how we really know so little about the avos, yet we must strive to attain their stature. we know so little of their every day normal life routines, their daily interactions with people, etc. All we are exposed to is their great, big, triumphs over the nisyonos that came their way, but not of the little ones. (Unlike the hundreds of stories we read about the Chofetz Chaim’s life or the Chazon Ish, etc.)
Just saying.October 31, 2012 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #1169275
ok, so here is a question which bothered me since laining on Rosh HaShanah. Please answer if you think you have an explaination. In this week’s parsha we read the story of the Akeidas Yitzchok, an historic event which is dramatic and gripping till the very end.
But what up with the ram??
I mean, it’s seems like a nice gesture on Avrohom’s part to offer up the ram, in place of his son, yada yada yada, but why is it SO CENTRAL to the story?! We blow shofar on Rosh HaShanah, zeicher l’ayil! Why a ram’s horn, why not take a knife as a zeicher for this nisoyon? IDK, it seems so much like just an afterthought, like a side note, a footnote for the epilogue of Akeidas Yizchok. Yet, the Ayil takes such an important role in the story. Why????October 31, 2012 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #1169276Rav TuvParticipant
Rashi says the ayil was muchan from sheshes yemei breeishis. Perhaps Avraham knew this and that it would later be a zechus for klal Yisroel. It was HKB”H that planned the exalted status of the ayil. Why the ayil? gemara says the horn is kafuf, so our hearts should be kafuf.November 1, 2012 12:53 am at 12:53 am #1169277
That’s not the whole reason of the Shofar, you know.
Anyhow, being Makriv the ram was materializing the will and determination that he built up to be Makriv his son. Rashi brings a Medrash that by each part of the Korban, Avraham Avinu said, “This should be as if I am doing it to my son.” He didn’t want to feel as if he is getting away with it. He therefore imagined the whole thing as if he was actually doing it to his son.
Chazal tell us that the ashes are placed in front of Hashem, and when we are in trouble He takes a look at it and remembers the Zchus of Klal Yisroel. The Korban of the ram was the tangible object of what Avraham Avinu wanted to do.November 1, 2012 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #1169278
Thank you so much musser zoger and HaLeiVi for your answers!November 1, 2012 2:16 pm at 2:16 pm #1169279
A) Rashi says once that Avrohom first got rid of the Avoda Zoro and then invited the guests in, whereas Lot wasn’t makpid and therefore let them in.
But later it says that Lot did that in order to save them from Sedom???
B) Did the story with the ?????? take place on ????? or ???? The ???? in ??? ???? ?”? says that it was on Succos, but Rashi says ???. Is this a ??????November 1, 2012 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #1169280
The Gemoro points out from this weeks parsha that Hacnosas Orchim is more important than ???? ?????? — Since when is there a ???? to be ???? the shecinah? Of course ????? would have to stop and go do the ?????
I saw an answer that it was ?????/???, and there is a ???? of “??? ????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?? ??? ?” and that was the ???? Avrohom was ?????.November 1, 2012 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #1169281
I have a better question. The malachim are malachei Elokim they are spiritual and powerful beings with a shlichus from Hashem, why on earth would they need “Lots pritection?!”November 1, 2012 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #1169282on the ballParticipant
Yekke2 – arguably Avraham Avinu didnt do Hachnosas Orchim because it was an official Mitzva (it was after all before Matan Torah).
Maybe he did it because he understood it to be G-d’s will. And it is regarding this, that Chazal say it is greater to do Hachnosas Orchim than be Mekabel the Shechina – also a way of carrying out G-d’s will.November 1, 2012 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #1169283
Since when is it a Mitzva!? It’s the point of the whole Torah and the whole creation! If you need a ‘Mekor’ that it’s a Mitzva look at Rashi in tomorrow’s Daf, where he discusses the Navi having music.
Pesach and Succos is a Machlokes. If you can handle strange Terutzim we can say Eilu V’eilu. Being that Avraham Avinu’s Pesach and Succos were not a Zecher of a past event he could have kept them any other time. Pirkei D’reb Eliezer says the Bris was on Yom Kippur.November 15, 2012 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #1169284
Thought of 2 questions last night:
Q.#1 Why is Yaakov, the greatest of the Ovos, and one who lived a life of kedusha every second, called Yaakov (“he who holds the heel”) just because he held onto Esav’s heel when he was coming out of his mother’s womb?
Q.#2 Why was it necessary for Yitzchok to make a peace treaty with Avimelech, if Avrohom made one with him already for himself and their FOR THEIR CHILDREN?November 15, 2012 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #1169285longarekelMember
1)Yaakov will rise in the end (symbolized by grabbing Esav’s heel). This is of paramount importance. Also the name Yaakov (given by Hashem or Yitzchak) indicates that he will ‘trick’ Esav and take the bechora and the brachos, as Esav himself said later in the parsha. Agav, in future generations too, the goyim (esav) think they’re on top and controlling the yidden but in truth the yidden are taking the hashpaos from them. This is a deep subject.
2)Avimelech realized he may have violated the treaty by throwing Yitzchak out of Gerar. He therefore came to (renew or) reinforce the original treaty by saying how good he was. Palestinian faker. Also it is possible that the original treaty (that in fact included Avimelech’s children) was only with Avraham. Avimelech (the second, according to targum) came to add Yitzchak.November 21, 2012 7:37 pm at 7:37 pm #1169286
Q. Lavan switches the kallah Rochel and puts Leah under the chuppah. Very clever Lavan, indeed, very sly and slick. One problem about this whole scheme, Lavan. It’s a mekach ta’us. So Yaakov doesn’t remain married to Leah anyways, if his intention was to marry Rochel?! So from Lavan’s point of view, what was his cheshbon??
Q. From Leah’s perspective, how in the world did SHE get caught up in her father’s cunning ways and agree to go along with the plan, AT THE EXPENSE OF HER BELOVED SISTER, ROCHEL THE KALLAH?!November 21, 2012 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #1169287zaidy78Participant
In a similar Q to BaalHabooze:
Q. How was Rochel allowed to give the “secret password” to Leah? She was a traitor!
Imagine the story today. Some young BJJ graduate comes home from Israel, and gets engaged to a Lakewood bochur fresh out of the freezer. Ms. BJJ graduate has an older sister, with very sad eyes, at the grand age 27. After three months of palnning every last detail, the day finally arrives. At the chasunah the chosson goes and “badekt”s the kallah. They have a very moving and uplifting chuppah, and immediately after the chosson breaks the glass, the kallah lifts her veil and behold there stands the kallahs sister!!
Would the kallah be considered great for saving her older sister or would she be a traitor to her new husband??
And what needs further explantaion, how could it be that this very action gave Rochel her prestigious place in Klal Yisroel?!November 21, 2012 11:58 pm at 11:58 pm #1169288
To answer BaalHaBooze (and possibly zaidy) Yaakov wanted to marry both Rochel and Leah and Leah also didn’t know that Yaakov wanted to marry Rochel which was why she said “first you steal my husband and now my flowers?)November 22, 2012 12:34 am at 12:34 am #1169289zaidy78Participant
Did Yaakov know that HE wanted to marry Rochel AND Leah?
Did Rochel know that Yaakov wanted to marry Leah as well?
The possuk tells us that Yaakov told Lavan very clearly, in no uncertain terms, that he was willing to work seven years for ROCHEL, and only Rochel, not Leah?? How was Rochel allowed to give the simanim away??
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