March 19, 2021 8:37 am at 8:37 am #1958782
Wondering if anyone shares the minhag to have a kitniyos cholent on Erev Pesach that falls on Shabbos? Also do you abstain from kitniyos the same zman of chometz and if not when and why. ThanksMarch 19, 2021 9:29 am at 9:29 am #1958870rationalParticipant
I eat kitniyot on erev pesach, but for taste reasons, not in the cholent. It’s ok to do that of course , but some are machmir. Why? Because some are machmir.March 19, 2021 9:30 am at 9:30 am #1958871
There is earlier minyan, so we eat liunch before chatzos being no problem.March 19, 2021 9:30 am at 9:30 am #1958882lowerourtuition11210Participant
if i remember correctly ashkenazim stop eating kitniyos the same time we stop eating chametz.March 19, 2021 10:23 am at 10:23 am #1958908commonsaychelParticipant
Do whatever your family minhag is, same old true for the egg at the sederMarch 19, 2021 10:24 am at 10:24 am #1958891
Ashkenazim should not be envious of rice on Pesach – and not just because of a month of Selichot.
Apparently, kitniyot is connected to new medieval agricultural practices developed in Northern Europe that involved growing beans same fields as grain in different years. That would raise a concern. This practivce was responsible for Northern Europe drastically increasing amount of available protein from beans, while Southern Europe relied on animal protein. Animal protein is limited by amount of grain you can grow. Total amount of protein determines the size of the population.
And that is how an obscure group that come from a 100 Jewish men now constitutes a majority of Jews, while lumping an incredible diversity of genes and minhagim as “Sephardim”. This is hinted in Hagada as it says Jews left “b’ yad RAMA” and, of course, by the enormous amount of protein in Karban Hagigah and Pesach that we consume!March 19, 2021 10:36 am at 10:36 am #1958910TGIShabbosParticipant
And what do you do with the leftover chulent? Once Pesach rolls around on Motzei Shabbos, is an Ashkenazic individual really going to be eating chulent with beans and rice in it on actual Pesach?March 19, 2021 11:00 am at 11:00 am #1958925
I always eat kitniyot on Erev Pesach. Even for seuda shlishit!March 19, 2021 11:00 am at 11:00 am #1958926
“That would raise a concern.”
Not a concern today, though. Monoculture agriculture. Rice isn’t a real concern either; while rice can be grown in dry fields all commercially available rice today comes from flooded fields. Any contamination with chametz grains for either would come in the processing, not from the growing.March 19, 2021 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm #1958938
>> Not a concern today, though
yes, but we acquired this minhag in return for having those beans for centuries that made us so numerous, rich, and smart. It is worth it.March 19, 2021 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #1958972
” but we acquired this minhag”
Never suggested dropping it, unless you move to a Sefardi community and need to abide by its minhagim. (Halachah actually requires that.)March 19, 2021 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #1958986
Thanks to both Ashkenazim and Sefardim who responded. Just one more point is not clear yet with Daas Hakahal. That is do you allow kitniyos on Erev Pesach just like fruits and vegetables ? Meaning that after the tenth hour you permit kitniyos? This is a shayla for both Sefardim and Ashkenazim,I think.March 19, 2021 7:26 pm at 7:26 pm #1958991
Charlie: Need to abide by its minhagim. (Halachah actually requires that.)
You might be required to shake Lulav Sephardi way, but do you have to eat kitniyot in private?
Maybe if you are invited to a seder and afraid to insult the baalat habait, you can say that you can’t stand spices and nuts?!
I know of a Sephardi Rav who tells his kahal to use Ashkenazi Eruv, but does not seem to carry anything himself. Maybe that is why he wears the mask properly? so it would not be considered carrying. CALLING ALL “HASIDIM”March 19, 2021 7:26 pm at 7:26 pm #1958990
שבט הלוי says someone who eats kitniyos on ערב פסח is a פורץ גדר.March 20, 2021 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #1959112
DY, does he mean eating kitniyos after chatzos?March 21, 2021 3:06 am at 3:06 am #1959140
Source for not eating kitniyos erev Pesach: חק יעקב תע”א
Quoted by שבט הלוי ג’, ל”א. He calls one who does a פורץ גדר.March 21, 2021 3:06 am at 3:06 am #1959141
Reb Eliezer, he doesn’t specify, but presumably he means after סוף זמן אכילת חמץ. He is obviously not talking about before סוף זמן אכילת חמץ.March 21, 2021 11:12 am at 11:12 am #1959254
What is worse to you? Gebroks or kitniyos. The k will never be chametz no matter what. But the g might? So wadr which is preferred? Is there any Rav that permits k on Erev Pesach for Ashkies after the zman?March 21, 2021 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #1959305
Kitniyos, legume we find the Rav Mordechai 588, who says tbat kitniyos is assur because flour can be made from it and mistakenly exchanged with chametzdig flour whereas gebrochs is a chumra because of matzah not baked well, touching water and becoming chametz. No rishonim asser gebrochs. It is a far consideration. See the RMA O’CH 453,1March 21, 2021 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #1959306lowerourtuition11210Participant
Benephraim: none that i know of.March 21, 2021 6:31 pm at 6:31 pm #1959399Shalom-al-IsraelParticipant
Same as #1958882March 21, 2021 7:44 pm at 7:44 pm #1959413
I really appreciate the discussion and thank all for participating in a respectful way with no ad hominem.Have an amazing Pesach.BTW I didn’t check the Shevet Levi zatzal but I think there is no issur to bake chametz on Erev Pesach. Bal Yiraeh starts on Pesach. The mitzvah of Tashbisu is at chatzos.And midrabanan before that. Therefore to forbid kitniyos because you may bake chametz on Erev Pesach is a stretch. Please correct me if I err.March 22, 2021 2:01 am at 2:01 am #1959454
If is most certainly assur to own chometz on erev Pesach after chatzos mid’oraisa. Most Rishonim hold it’s an asei, but there is an opinion that bal yero’eh and bal yimotzeh also start then.
As numerous posters have commented, and I showed you sources, the accepted minhag is to not eat kitniyos from the same time we stop eating chometz.March 22, 2021 8:09 am at 8:09 am #1959486
DE. Thanks. One more time I specify my query. Why doesn’t kitniyos before chatzos have the status of 2 derabanons which is most probably permitted. One derabanan is the minhag of kitniyos and the second one is before chatzos. Thanks for your patience.March 22, 2021 10:01 am at 10:01 am #1959515
Thats not a repeat. You originally asked why it’s a problem since you mistakenly thought it’s not assur to bake chometz on erev Pesach.
Now you’re asking a new question – why don’t we say it’s muttar because it’s two d’rabbanans.
The simple answer is that usually even two d’rabbanans is assur. In this case, they obviously accepted the minhag that way, as we find that people abstain from kitniyos at the same time as chometz.March 22, 2021 11:53 am at 11:53 am #1959553
“Is there any Rav that permits k on Erev Pesach for Ashkies after the zman?”
Yes. Prominent rav in response to a direct shilah from me. But since the rav has not published this I can’t out him.March 22, 2021 11:54 am at 11:54 am #1959554
“If is most certainly assur to own chometz on erev Pesach after chatzos mid’oraisa.”
That is indeed the halachah but as all of us who have just finished tractate Pesachim know, that was not a unanimous opinion.
“Why doesn’t kitniyos before chatzos have the status of 2 derabanons which is most probably permitted.”
Al pi halachah kitniyot is mutar both deoraita and derabbanan. It is a minhag. And what constitutes kitniyot isn’t even clear. The Rema has a list but we don’t seem to follow him.March 22, 2021 11:54 am at 11:54 am #1959557
“usually even two d’rabbanans is assur”
Correct. There is room to be meikel in the case of two safek’s — two doubts — but indeed usually two derabbanans are asur. However, in this case, there is no derabbanan, there is a minhag.March 22, 2021 1:16 pm at 1:16 pm #1959571
They say kitniyos is what is called legume including rice which should be mutar until chatzos. The shabbos lunch will be early this year, so cholent beans without barley should no be a problem.
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