- This topic has 12 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 10 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
I met a doctor from India (neurosurgeon) who told me that he would work harder to save the life of an 18 year old than a 60 year old. Ironically, I recently read something about a similar topic in R Twerski’s Gevurah book. I was tempted to tell him that we can never know what value a person’s life holds, so we learn that we’re not supposed to choose one life over another (but I held back). I was afraid it would fall on deaf ears and I’d be overstepping my bounds speaking with a non-Jew about this (lecturing about Torah topics). I wonder if I was supposed to say something and if this is what being an “ohr lagoyim” means?
I don’t think being an ohr lagoyim means we have to prove anything to them, or go out of our way to change most of their opinions, such as these. So I think what you did was right. I think the idea of being an ohr lagoyim is not something we really actively pursue, it is more that if we study the Torah and do the right thing, we will naturally be an ohr lagoyim. That’s what it sounds like from the pesukim too (read Devarim 4:5 and onward, you’ll see what I mean).
It is entirely possible that a goy is allowed to make that kind of choice when treating a fellow goy. I have no reason to think otherwise. The torah teaches that the value of the life of an 18 year old yid is not necessarily greater than that of a 60 year old yid. But the value of the life of a goy may very well be judged by an entirely different standard. The sheva mitzvos benei noach (or sevara) do not indicate otherwise. As for being an ohr lagoyim I agree with yitay. The source for ohr lagoyim in Yeshaya 60 (and other places) also seems to be speaking of something which will happen on its own.
mommamia22
I think it is human nature that one would try harder to save the younger person. He didnt say that one is at the expense of the other. You understand the distinction I am making?
Hope you never need that doctor.
Tov Shebarofim…
Longarkel, the Sheva Mitzvot do indeed imply that the life of an 18 year old Ben Noach is not necessarily greater than that of a 60 year old. The penalty for murder is the same. Not treating somebody might be different even for us. There are opinions to that effect regarding terminal patients where there is complete non-action (as opposed to “pulling the plug”).
Yit, Rav Leff holds that it is a mitzva to try to convince Goyim to keep the Sheva Mitzvot but kiruv among Jews comes first. He also cites dangrs and prohibitions involved in outreach among Gentiles (http://www.matityahu.org/RavLeffQA/viewquestions.asp?viewcat=15 [question 1247). On the other hand, The Lubavitcher Rabbi, Rav Morechai Eliahu and others encouraged people to do so and there are several rabbis who are involved with Bnei Noach organizations. It could be that Rav Leff would also not discourage dealing with these people as they have already accepted the Sheva Mitzvot and then letting them do kiruv among other Gentiles. Everybody agrees that someone who already deals with Gentiles has a mitva to be an exemplar.
I’m with yitaynig on this one. I never understood what the mekor was for this “or lagaoyim means I need to go out and do something”. From the pesukim it says that Hashem will make us an or lagoyim. We aren’t doing it, He is.
B’India??
Avi K – Sure it’s a mitzva to teach goyim the sheva mitzvos. What does this have to do with the sheva mitzvos though?
The fact that the penalty for murder is the same for killing an 18 year old and killing a 60 year old, doesn’t prove that they are equal crimes, because: Had the penalty been a prison term, and it was the same amount of months for both crimes, you would have been able to prove that the crime is the same, because had one been worse, it would receive more time. With the death penalty, obviously, it’s impossible to make this argument. The best proof is stealing. Do you honestly think that stealing a quarter is tantamount to killing him? Yet the same penalty is given for both. You must concede that with the death penalty – since it can’t get any worse – it doesn’t really show in any way that two crimes penalized with it are equal.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.