Kosher shaver? Phillips One Blade

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  • This topic contains 28 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  Shmuff 2 months ago.
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  • #1599654

    Is the Phillips one blade a kosher shaver

    Link removed

    #1599723

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    I would suggest calling a store like “The Buzz”. They probably have up to date information. The Star-K has an old article about shavers so you may want to call them.

    #1599800

    wijnstokken
    Participant

    It’s a clipper, so it might be more “kosher” than the real shavers. “Someone I know well” has been using it for months and even though it does a decent job, it isn’t a competition to Norelco (even with the lifts).

    #1599804

    wijnstokken
    Participant

    It’s really a trimmer

    #1600040

    Has anyone asked a rabbi if it is kosher. Or know if a rabbi to ask

    #1602368

    HockPurposesOnly
    Participant

    I heard rabbi forscheimer says it’s not kosher, I don’t know why though. Does anyone know what the problem could be? (It says on the website it doesn’t cut as close as a razor)

    #1602399

    wijnstokken
    Participant

    hock,

    can you ask him?

    #1602525

    I emailed start k they said it is a kosher shaver and you can use it as long as you rely on the heter to shave

    #1605212

    Talmidchochom
    Participant

    Are there any triple headers out on the market currently that are not Lift n’ Cut, and therefore kosher for use? I need one desperately.

    #1605237

    ready now
    Participant

    : “f. In all the electric shavers, the cutting process is one of contact between a moving blade and the head (a metal screen). Thus, from the point of view of the action performed, these machines are scissors. And this is the basis of our current position.” FROM “zomet. org.il, certifications and guidelines, electric shavers” . Just copy this and google it, the top most result at the top of the page will give you the above information, amongst other information. Just click on the picture of the shaver when you get there!

    I read on another website some time ago that the saver should be dismantled in the “cutting section” and the
    B\blades” should be blunted with a metal object and then reassembled, but could not find that website today!

    #1605292

    ready now
    Participant

    CORRECTION!!!!!:
    Further to what I wrote above, the following are the last lines on star-k .org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/563/electric-shavers/
    “So too, in a similar manner, R’ Moshe would often test the sharpness of an electric shaver’s blades. He would take a beard hair and test the blades! The shaver would be acceptable if the hair was held taut and was not split in half.

    The only practical suggestion that can be given to one whose shaver failed this test is to dull the blades,…..done by taking a key or some other hard, flat instrument and running it along the sharp edge of the blade. Obviously, this shaver will not work as well; nevertheless, it is still effective and will transform a previously questionable shaver into one that is acceptable by the Poskim who permit the use of shavers. ”

    BUT I believe the “foils” in the electric shavers are also very sharp! As could be the case also with the “guards”.
    So it is not clear that even blunting the “blades” would be enough, as the presence of a sharp instrument in the form of a foil or a guard would not be “scissors”, but would be shaving with a blade, issur, prohibited!

    Keep your beard, just trim with scissors, but not the corners!

    #1605353

    Talmidchochom
    Participant

    As is often the case, this conversation is becoming too subjective. I WANT FACTS. Therefore i am requesting that someone kindly send me the citation in the Igros Moshe where this very subject matter is discussed. Thank you.

    #1605365

    wijnstokken
    Participant

    Which corners?

    #1605944

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Therefore i am requesting that someone kindly send me the citation in the Igros Moshe where this very subject matter is discussed.

    There is no teshuvah which discusses which shavers are muttar. Various talmidim of R’ Moshe’s have different opinions about which are muttar, probably based on which shavers they observed him approving and their interpretations of how it would apply to today’s shavers.

    #1605932

    Talmidchochom
    Participant

    I find it very telling that in over 8 hours nobody was able to show me an Igros Moshe on this issue. Everybody has their own comments, opinions, psak but no one can show me a psak from a true gadol b’Torah!

    #1605447

    Miriamson
    Participant

    See “Why Electric Shavers Are Permitted” at: http://www.koshershaver.info/Kuntris_Magazine_Teves_%205776.pdf

    See also Meged Givos Olam (vol. 1, p. 96) where Rav Shurkin writes that he heard that the reason why Rav Moshe did not want to write this teshuvah permitting shaving machines in Igros Moshe is because while
    (according to the Igros Moshe) it is technically permitted to shave, the tzurah of a Yid is with a beard.This attestation why Rav Moshe Feinstein zt’l did not publish his heter regarding shaving machines is also recorded in the popular publication Daf Yomi Digest, a daily resource for thousands of Daf Yomi learners
    worldwide, compiled by the Ruben Shas Kollel and published by Chicago Center for Torah & Chesed, under the leadership of HaRav Yehoshua Eichenstein shlita and HaRav Pinchas Eichenstein shlita, Rosh Kollel. In their issue on Nazir daf 40, the following is documented as clarification of Rav Moshe Feinstein zt’l’s position:
    “It is well known that Rav Moshe Feinstein, zt”l, did permit the use of certain electric shavers. Someone once approached him and asked why he didn’t write a teshuvah outlining the parameters of which shavers are permitted and which are not. ‘After all, your teshuvos cover every subject under the sun!’ Rav Moshe explained, ‘Although I permit this practice halachically, I don’t want to write a teshuvah formally
    permitting this since the proper way is for a Jew to have a beard. Although this is not halachically prohibited, a Jew ought to grow a beard!’”

    In the most recently published volume of responsa Shevet HaLevi (vol. 11, Y.D. section 198), Rav Shmuel Halevi Wosner zt’l (referred to by many as the Posek Hador) wrote: “With regard to shaving machines…it was agreed by all the Geonim…that there is no difference between [using] them and [using] a razor… The Gaon R. Moshe Feinstein sought to make a distinction between today’s [shaving machines] and a razor
    and advanced a theory [in justification]…. That theory is not correct and has not been accepted ( אינה נכונה ולא נתקבלה aynah nechonah v’lo niskablah).”

    In addition, in the 5778 issue of Agudas Yisroel of America’s Am HaTorah journal (5:9), Rav Pesach Eliyahu Falk (Rov in Gateshead and author of responsa Machzeh Eliyahu and many other halachic works)
    testified that he personally heard from Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt’l how he rejected the reported reasoning of Rav Moshe Feinstein zt’l to be lenient regarding electric shavers.

    #1605980

    Talmidchochom
    Participant

    Thank you, Miriamson, for clarifying a lot of doubts in my mind

    #1752369

    Boca Raton
    Participant

    To clarify the position of Rav Moshe Heinemann shlita regarding this issue:

    In a Hebrew language letter dated 19 Menachem Av 5769 which was widely publicized at the time (and posted in many shuls and yeshivos), Rav Heinemann wrote that since there is a dispute between the poskim whether any shaving machines are permissible and those who prohibit their use consider them Osur Min HaTorah, therefore those who do not want to grow their beards should instead use a trimmer such as the Outliner which does not remove the hair entirely and leaves stubble. The letter is co-signed by the Roshei Yeshiva of BMG in Lakewood (Rav Malkiel Kotler, Rav Yeruchim Olshin, Rav Dovid Tzvi Shustal and Rav Yisroel Tzvi Newman) who add that regular shavers involved a “sefeika d’oraysa.”

    It seems clear from this letter that Rav Heinemann does NOT take the position that, based on the Igros Moshe being Posek Hador, the opinions of the Poskim who prohibit shavers should be dismissed or discounted. On the contrary, he advises that l’maasah, practically speaking, one who wants to shave should instead use a trimming machine (and not a regular shaver).

    In another Hebrew language letter dated Parshas Re’eh, 5736, Rav Heinemann confirms that “emes nachon hadavar” that his Rebbe Rav Aharon Kotler zt’l did not permit the use of shaving machines. Rav Heinemann added that Rav Aharon Kotler did not want to issue a heter even for the Outliner trimmer, out of deference for the Chofetz Chaim.

    #1752340

    shekerhachein
    Participant

    I emailed this question to the Star-K and received the following reply:

    “Hello,
    Some time ago Rabbi Heinemann checked a OneBlade shaver and concluded that it was not razor sharp, and therefore paskened that it could be used by someone who shaves. However, he recently checked another One Blade, and felt that this one was razor sharp. Possibly, there is some variation in the OneBlades. Due to these contradictory results, Rabbi Heinemann has said that each OneBlade needs to be tested individually to determine whether it is razor sharp. As testing a OneBlade will render it unusable, there is no practical way to test each OneBlade.
    Even if we could determine that a OneBlade is razor sharp, that does not necessarily mean that it is forbidden. Rabbi Heinemann has said that a razor sharp blade is forbidden only if it cuts close to the skin. If the blade leaves hair long enough that the stubble can be felt when moving one’s hand over the surface of the skin in the direction of the grain of the hair, it is muttar to use. It is not sufficient that the stubble can be felt when moving one’s hand against the grain of the hair. Tests with the OneBlade regarding whether stubble can be felt when moving one’s hand in the direction of the grain of the hair were inconclusive.
    Therefore, Rabbi Heinemann paskens that it is inconclusive whether the OneBlade shaver is permitted or not. As a result of this uncertainty, the OneBlade shaver should not be used.”

    #1752370

    Shmuff
    Participant

    Firstly it is a trimmer. Secondly, I asked one of the Poskiem in BMG and he said it’s fine. So, it would essentially be better alternative than the peanut for “non shavers” as it’s a cleaner shave.

    #1752398

    too geshmak
    Participant

    Shmuff,
    2 questions. Who did you ask? And did you show it to the Rav or explain it to him?

    #1752427

    volf
    Participant

    Rabbi Blumenkrantz’s 2019 Pesach Sefer page 415 has an updated list of permissible Norelco triple head Shavers. He also quotes the psakim from Rav Moshe Feinstein Zatzal earlier in the same chapter 27.
    It states the following:
    Based on a conversation with Hora Dovid Feinstein Shlita, he has advised that, in his opinion, Norelco now produces shavers without lifts that are Kosher to use straight out of the box. The following shavers are considered the best shavers available on the market as off this time: Phillips Norelco 6945XL, 6948XL, 6955XL, 1100, 2100, 2300, 3100, 3500, 3600 with Closecut or Comfortcut blade system and all other Norelco Shavers which say Closecut or Comfortcut on the blade heads.

    #1752417

    volf
    Participant

    Rabbi Blumenkrantz’s 2019 Pesach Sefer on page 415 has an updated list of Norelco brand Triple head shavers that are accepted. It states: The following shavers are considered the best shavers available on the market at this time. Phillips Norelco 6945XL, 6948, 6955XL,1100, 2100, 2300, 3500, 3600 with Closecut or Comfortcut blade system and all other Norelco Shavers which say Closecut or Comfortcut on the blade heads.
    Rabbi Blumenkrantz quotes Rav Moshe Feinstein Zatzal regarding shavers earlier on in that same chapter 27

    #1752458

    anonymous
    Participant

    Both Rabbi Heineman and Rabbi Forcheimer hold each Norelco has to be checked by am expert in the field. Until they are checked, they are prohibited. And they seem to be basing this on Reb Moshe zt”l.

    Rabbi Heineman says one blades are prohibited, and Rabbi Forcheimer said it is a “taar mamash’.

    Rabbi Blumenkrantz is no longer alive to ask, and the children who put out the sefer never spoke to Reb Moshe ztl.

    #1752788

    Shmuff
    Participant

    Too Geshmak,

    It would be different than a standard shaver as it uses two blades (despite the name) with scissor action. As far as closeness, i was under the impression that would be a problem with a one bladed machine as it’s “דומה לתער “. But if you have a scissor that gives a close cut then it wouldn’t fall under that category despite its closeness.

    I showed the one blade trimmer to rabbi felder. He seemed to think to was ok.

    #1752792

    Shmuff
    Participant

    @anonymous how can you say R Heineken holds its prohibited? The star Ks response is posted above from “shekerhachain”. In that email it explicitly says he did not determine if it was problematic or not.

    #1756440

    What’s up with OP’s screen name?

    #1760883

    Redleg
    Participant

    I don’t understand what is accomplished by dulling the cutting blade. If the issue with the shaver is tarr, than all you have is a dull tarr, Maye nafke mina? For that matter, what is the specific issur of tarr? Is it the blade against the skin? Is it the closeness of the shave? If the latter, why was samm (depilitory powder) ok? How about a razor cut haircut? The razor is just used to trim the hair, not shave the head. The blade never touches the scalp. In fact, the action of the razor against the comb is not unlike the action of an electric shaver. How about a trimmer (Note 2) with a guard. A #2 would give you that stubble look I mentioned above.
    It seems to me that all psak, especially psak that dealing with technology, needs a detailed explanation . Just saying “assur” is insufficient.
    Note 1: If the specific issur is removal of the beard, then all of the questions above about shaving are moot.
    Note 2: A trimmer works exactly like a scissors, blade against blade.

    #1761004

    Shmuff
    Participant

    @redleg
    Here is a detailed expose on the subject that should address your issues. https://www.star-k.org/articles/kashrus-kurrents/563/electric-shavers/

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