April 28, 2015 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #1075276apushatayidParticipant
The kol koreh issued to the flatbush community (and published on ywn) was as a result of a shayla posed by three flatbush rabbonim to those poskim. they published the response they received. the three rabbonim in question often work together on communal matters.
there was no conspiracy or desire to get anyone on their behalf.April 28, 2015 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #1075277cherrybimParticipant
I think a better name for this device is the Nisht Oif Shabbos G’ret Switch.May 1, 2015 5:57 am at 5:57 am #1075278newbeeMember
rabenu chananel says that the grama does not work if its the way its usually used. its intended purpose is to make something happen- thats what its made for- this is called meiseh, so I dont get the entire concept. Many times poskim will be meikel for cholim- how can you apply this to everyone when we are dealing with a chiuv kares according to rabenu channanel?May 3, 2015 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #1075279emunah613Member
so if you have an elderly parent being taken care of by a non Jewish carer, is it a good idea to install this kosher switch into the apartment? Does this absolve the parent of having to hint on Shabbos to turn off the lights or to open the lights, since it is all hooked up to Kosher Switch? What if the elderly parent needs to get up in the dark and the carer is still asleep on Shabbos? What if you are dealing with a seriously ill person who needs to be given meds, or adjustments on the machinery they are hooked up to? Can the person caring for the person use the Kosher Light Switch and feel good that they are not violating any of the hilchos Shabbos? We’ve been told that in any fear of danger to her life, we are allowed to open lights. Even without a kosher switch. But this upsets her immensely and I think that if this invention were improved, it would ease her discomfort immensely.May 3, 2015 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #1075280☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
You have to understand that according to many acharonim (Even Haozer, Achiezer, Chazon Ish, etc.), turning on a light, even using the KosherSwitch, would still be an issur min haTorah. At best, you would be reducing the issur to a d’rabbonon (Mogen Avraham, and possibly, according to Chasam Sofer). You’d actually be better off switching all the bulbs to LED.
This way, nobody thinks it’s muttar, and it would only be used by a non Jew for a choleh, or in a situation of pikuach nefesh, when you wouldn’t want the delay, and when it’s muttar anyhow.May 3, 2015 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #1075281newbeeMember
“Can the person caring for the person use the Kosher Light Switch and feel good that they are not violating any of the hilchos Shabbos?”
Poskim wont change the tzurah of shabbos in order to prevent people from being over a lav or to ease their emotional discomfort- better to tell them the right thing to do over and over again and hope they change- appose us changing for them. A rov needs to be consulted for the questions of hospitals and the like. From what I have learned and heard, there is essentially no place for the kosher switch in our homes.
We see that the rabonim created a tzurah of shabbos- we should have the table set nicely, light candles, drink the meal over wine, we cannot ride on a horse because we “may break a twig”- the underlying reason is the rabbis did not want people’s shabbos to look like a weekday and riding on a horse and the like would ruin the tzurah. Its not only what is technically permitted that matters. The kosher switch has both very real melacha issues and zilzul issues and I dont see it having any place in the Jewish home now or in the future.May 4, 2015 1:59 am at 1:59 am #1075282ubiquitinParticipant
I’m curious what people think the response would have been if the Kosher Switch people had been more honest.
In other words if instead of marketing it as a great addition to “Every home” and pretending that they had rabbinic backing for this, if they had said:
look we have this invention Some rabbonim say it is ok for everybody (R’ Ben Chaim, R’ Chaim Zvi Shapira (assuming his haskama wasnt edited)), some say it is ok mitzad melacha but may be a problem of zilzul Shabbos (R’ Oelbaum), some are ok with it in threory but never actually gave a haskama (R’ Steinberg, let’s be honest wishing “hatzlacha” means he doesnt (didnt?) view it as an issur, but it obviously isnt quite a haskama either, I doubt he would wish hatzlacha to my opening a McDonalds), some allow it for Cholim (R’ Neuwirth, R’ Harfanes)and every person shoudl discuss with their Rav of it is right for them
(Of course this is more theoretical than practical, since the above probably wouldnt be financially viable they certainly wouldnt raise over $50,000 in a few days)
Now obviously those who asser would still Asser, but lets be honest there are a decent number of Rabbonim who allow (allowed?) it (In practice or in theory) in at least a limited situation.
There is no way to know for sure, but do people think the opposition would be as strong?
Another question, I couldnt help but notice the conspicuous absence of this story in the yated, the closest they came to mentioning it was a strangely worded letter from zman switch describing how theyu are different than kosher switch, without actually mentioning kosher switch, any idea why?May 4, 2015 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #1075283ubiquitinParticipant
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