Lady Bus Drivers for Mesivta boys

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  • #601744

    busdriveress
    Participant

    We live in Lakewood where it seems quite acceptable for Jewish owners of certain bus companies to provide lady drivers to drive Mesivta boys to Yeshiva. Good way to start the day !

    I was just wondering if other jewish communities have the same problem.

    #846053

    Abelleh
    Participant

    Why exactly is it a problem? There isn’t any yichud.

    #846054

    real-brisker
    Member

    Whats the problem? Is it public transportation, or private?

    #846055

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    I happen to agree with the OP that it is an issue. For a community that is trying to shelter their children, exposing the boys to a woman that they see every day is antithesis to what they are trying to accomplish. I’m sure that Chassidim in New Square & Kiryas Yoel would be up in arms if this happened in their cities. What should Lakewood be any worse?

    #846056

    LBK
    Participant

    why should it be a problem? Maybe they should just sit in the back, and then everyone will be happy….

    #846057

    bpt
    Participant

    Its a terrific idea. Think about it:

    The bus picks them in the dead of winter, its still dark outside, and its freezing cold. You could be greeted by a grumpy, unshaven guy (smelling of stale ciggarette smoke) who would rather be anywhere else but hauling a bunch of (equally) grumpy, unshaven teens, who would also rather be anywhere else, but on the bus.

    Or they could be greeted by a cheerful, song filled “good morning!”, with the smell of spring in the air.

    Which bus would you wake up for on time?

    #846058

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    When I lived in Europe, we didn’t even have buses. That was the way it should be.

    You can see clearly that the purpose of technology is always only for pritzus.

    #846059

    Bowwow
    Participant

    OP- Looking for the chumra of the day……..

    #846060

    yahud
    Member

    popa, “You can see clearly that the purpose of technology is always only for pritzus.”

    as always your obvious one-track mindednes outdoes itself

    #846061

    Toi
    Participant

    bpt-clearly youve never had the balding smelly flabby-and-showing-it female drivers. theyre no fun either.

    For the record i do see it being a problem if the driver is too chatty. btu hey, im an extremist.

    #846062

    Feif Un
    Participant

    This is where problems start. There is nothing wrong with boys being “exposed” to girls as long as it doesn’t violate halachah. When we pretend that the opposite gender doesn’t exist, it causes problems when they are “exposed” down the road. Boys need to know that girls/women are out there, and that there’s nothing wrong with being around them as long as it’s done properly. By “being around them”, I mean things like having a bus driver, sitting next to a woman on a bus or train (which R’ Moshe Feinstein says clearly is allowed l’chatchilah), in the workplace, or in a grocery store.

    I was in a store recently, and a frum woman asked me for help – there was an item on the top shelf that she couldn’t reach, and she asked me if I could get it down for her. I was in a different store recently in a more right-wing community, and I saw two girls shopping. They were actually climbing on the shelves trying to reach the top one. I asked them, “Would you like some help getting something from the top?” They just looked at me like I was crazy, and kept trying to reach things. They didn’t even say “No thank you”. This is what we get to when we think of stupid questions like the OP.

    #846063

    TheGoq
    Participant

    Bpt i never knew that men were grumpier than women thanks for the tip.

    #846064

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Guess what? I actually agree with the OP.

    To Feif, and everyone else talking about extra chumras. You mean well but you miss a crucial point. A woman hired by a bus company is not hired based on whether or not she is a prutza (a lascivious woman), but based on whether or not she is qualified to be a bus driver. Sitting next to a woman on the bus is one thing, but sitting next to the same woman every single day could lead to something, especially if she is a prutza. Did you ever think about the last kid to get off the bus, sitting and shmoozing with his bus driver every night? Did you ever think about how likely it might be for something to happen if she is indeed a prutza, even remotely attractive, and he is seventeen or eighteen (the OP is talking about mesivta, not elementary school)?

    Let’s just say I know someone personally who was in that exact situation, and it led to something which would give you goosebumps. And I have no reason to think that this case was a freak incident. Hence my opinion.

    #846065

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “the balding smelly flabby-and-showing-it female drivers.”

    Perhaps this is on purpose. To avoid situations the OP is concerned about. Her balding, smelly flabby-and-showing-it husband is driving the high school girls for the same reason.

    #846066

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    There are laws of discrimation in this country and unless its a job where you can say no females are allowed (Like say a Rabbi or mens room attendent) you HAVE to allow females to drive the buses if they are qualified.

    If the Buses are paid for with Tax Dollars by the city of Lakewood (as opposed to private funding by parents) even more so as the buses are contracted by the City of Lakewood who must obey the laws of the State of NJ and federal laws.

    #846067

    mom12
    Participant

    I agree with OP. its not yiddish and not ‘ausgehalten’.

    All of you ‘pros’..I dont think you would want your son perhaps to be chosen as the driveresses pet or any other name you want to give it..’Lifnei eever lo sitein michshol’.

    or he should have the driveresses face disturbing his mind all day while learning.

    Imaginations and ‘yetzer hara’ are all at work and they know there job all too well!

    #846068

    ED IT OR
    Participant

    yay let’s all lynch the lakeys.

    seriously if you don’t like it don’t go on it or send your kids on it

    this is pure incitement……

    #846069

    busdriveress
    Participant

    Feif Un

    Is that the way you always respond to questions you don’t like. Some attitude you have. Your name is very fitting for your personality !!

    zahavasdad

    The owner should use a bit of common sense and allocate the female driver to a route which has young boys and not 14 to 17 year old mesivta boys.

    By the way, although there are meant to be up to 30 boys on this specific route, on average there are between 3 to 6 boys only.

    Maybe the solution is for the remaining 3 to 6 boys to also find alternate transport if the haymishe owner doesn’t understand the issue.

    #846070

    longarekel
    Member

    OP makes a good point. While strictly speaking it may not be assur, why give the yetzer hara material to work with? There are plenty of male drivers out there. I might add that male non-jewish drivers also have a negative influence. The best option is torah observant drivers, and B’H’ there are those as well.

    #846071

    apushatayid
    Participant

    I think special bus Rabbeim should drive the bus, this way, no bittul torah on the bus.

    #846072

    squeak
    Participant

    Chamira sakanta m’issurah!

    I can’t believe all the cr poiskim are debating trivial points. Ladies should not be driving our bnei torah for one reason only. They are lady drivers! Safety first!

    If anyone has to get on a bus that is driven by a woman, let it be girls, who don’t learn torah anyway.

    #846073

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I had such a good response, and all I got was one bite, and they thought I was serious!

    Anyway, I agree with yitayningwut.

    #846074

    ZeesKite
    Participant

    Squeak: Are you for Real???

    #846075

    bpt
    Participant

    “the balding smelly flabby-and-showing-it female drivers.”

    No doubt, you must be talking about Varsity buses <shudder>.

    I would expect the drivers doing the Mesivta boy route to be,

    Then again, if the shoe fits… 🙂

    #846076

    many boys chedarim have private transportatoin around here specifically to avoid this problem!

    #846077

    Loyal Jew
    Member

    The Beis Shemesh solution doesn’t look so extreme anymore.

    #846078

    Avi K
    Participant

    Squeak, actually on average women have better driving records than men.

    #846079

    winny1
    Participant

    I know some women who work in a lunchroom/cafeteria in Yeshivos. Should this be viewed as a problem (if someone is hungry, what should they do). Many of these women are mothers of bochurim helping pay the tuition by working. Where is the problem.

    #846080

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    on average women have better driving records than men.

    Two points:

    1. Explain what you mean by driving records. We should not care about speeding or reckless driving for this purpose; we should only care about accidents caused, which is the bottom line.

    2. How do those numbers change when you remove the drunk drivers from the mix?

    #846081

    ED IT OR
    Participant

    avi k, the lady drivers CAUSE the accidents which in itself is a wrong term as it suggests no one was at fault the correct term could be incident?

    #846082

    mdd
    Member

    Yitai, how can you send a guy like that to work in the outside world? If one guy was nichshol in a such a matzav, it is not a raya.

    #846083

    computer777
    Member

    crazybrit: so men don’t cause motor vehicle accidents, only women, huh?

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