January 23, 2012 3:50 am at 3:50 am #601744
We live in Lakewood where it seems quite acceptable for Jewish owners of certain bus companies to provide lady drivers to drive Mesivta boys to Yeshiva. Good way to start the day !
I was just wondering if other jewish communities have the same problem.January 23, 2012 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #846053
Why exactly is it a problem? There isn’t any yichud.January 23, 2012 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #846054
Whats the problem? Is it public transportation, or private?January 23, 2012 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #846055
I happen to agree with the OP that it is an issue. For a community that is trying to shelter their children, exposing the boys to a woman that they see every day is antithesis to what they are trying to accomplish. I’m sure that Chassidim in New Square & Kiryas Yoel would be up in arms if this happened in their cities. What should Lakewood be any worse?January 23, 2012 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #846056
why should it be a problem? Maybe they should just sit in the back, and then everyone will be happy….January 23, 2012 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #846057
Its a terrific idea. Think about it:
The bus picks them in the dead of winter, its still dark outside, and its freezing cold. You could be greeted by a grumpy, unshaven guy (smelling of stale ciggarette smoke) who would rather be anywhere else but hauling a bunch of (equally) grumpy, unshaven teens, who would also rather be anywhere else, but on the bus.
Or they could be greeted by a cheerful, song filled “good morning!”, with the smell of spring in the air.
Which bus would you wake up for on time?January 23, 2012 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #846058
When I lived in Europe, we didn’t even have buses. That was the way it should be.
You can see clearly that the purpose of technology is always only for pritzus.January 23, 2012 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #846059
OP- Looking for the chumra of the day……..January 23, 2012 5:59 pm at 5:59 pm #846060
popa, “You can see clearly that the purpose of technology is always only for pritzus.”
as always your obvious one-track mindednes outdoes itselfJanuary 23, 2012 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #846061
bpt-clearly youve never had the balding smelly flabby-and-showing-it female drivers. theyre no fun either.
For the record i do see it being a problem if the driver is too chatty. btu hey, im an extremist.January 23, 2012 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #846062
This is where problems start. There is nothing wrong with boys being “exposed” to girls as long as it doesn’t violate halachah. When we pretend that the opposite gender doesn’t exist, it causes problems when they are “exposed” down the road. Boys need to know that girls/women are out there, and that there’s nothing wrong with being around them as long as it’s done properly. By “being around them”, I mean things like having a bus driver, sitting next to a woman on a bus or train (which R’ Moshe Feinstein says clearly is allowed l’chatchilah), in the workplace, or in a grocery store.
I was in a store recently, and a frum woman asked me for help – there was an item on the top shelf that she couldn’t reach, and she asked me if I could get it down for her. I was in a different store recently in a more right-wing community, and I saw two girls shopping. They were actually climbing on the shelves trying to reach the top one. I asked them, “Would you like some help getting something from the top?” They just looked at me like I was crazy, and kept trying to reach things. They didn’t even say “No thank you”. This is what we get to when we think of stupid questions like the OP.January 23, 2012 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #846063
Bpt i never knew that men were grumpier than women thanks for the tip.January 23, 2012 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm #846064
Guess what? I actually agree with the OP.
To Feif, and everyone else talking about extra chumras. You mean well but you miss a crucial point. A woman hired by a bus company is not hired based on whether or not she is a prutza (a lascivious woman), but based on whether or not she is qualified to be a bus driver. Sitting next to a woman on the bus is one thing, but sitting next to the same woman every single day could lead to something, especially if she is a prutza. Did you ever think about the last kid to get off the bus, sitting and shmoozing with his bus driver every night? Did you ever think about how likely it might be for something to happen if she is indeed a prutza, even remotely attractive, and he is seventeen or eighteen (the OP is talking about mesivta, not elementary school)?
Let’s just say I know someone personally who was in that exact situation, and it led to something which would give you goosebumps. And I have no reason to think that this case was a freak incident. Hence my opinion.January 23, 2012 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #846065
“the balding smelly flabby-and-showing-it female drivers.”
Perhaps this is on purpose. To avoid situations the OP is concerned about. Her balding, smelly flabby-and-showing-it husband is driving the high school girls for the same reason.January 23, 2012 8:05 pm at 8:05 pm #846066
There are laws of discrimation in this country and unless its a job where you can say no females are allowed (Like say a Rabbi or mens room attendent) you HAVE to allow females to drive the buses if they are qualified.
If the Buses are paid for with Tax Dollars by the city of Lakewood (as opposed to private funding by parents) even more so as the buses are contracted by the City of Lakewood who must obey the laws of the State of NJ and federal laws.January 23, 2012 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #846067
I agree with OP. its not yiddish and not ‘ausgehalten’.
All of you ‘pros’..I dont think you would want your son perhaps to be chosen as the driveresses pet or any other name you want to give it..’Lifnei eever lo sitein michshol’.
or he should have the driveresses face disturbing his mind all day while learning.
Imaginations and ‘yetzer hara’ are all at work and they know there job all too well!January 23, 2012 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #846068
ED IT ORParticipant
yay let’s all lynch the lakeys.
seriously if you don’t like it don’t go on it or send your kids on it
this is pure incitement……January 23, 2012 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #846069
Is that the way you always respond to questions you don’t like. Some attitude you have. Your name is very fitting for your personality !!
The owner should use a bit of common sense and allocate the female driver to a route which has young boys and not 14 to 17 year old mesivta boys.
By the way, although there are meant to be up to 30 boys on this specific route, on average there are between 3 to 6 boys only.
Maybe the solution is for the remaining 3 to 6 boys to also find alternate transport if the haymishe owner doesn’t understand the issue.January 23, 2012 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #846070
OP makes a good point. While strictly speaking it may not be assur, why give the yetzer hara material to work with? There are plenty of male drivers out there. I might add that male non-jewish drivers also have a negative influence. The best option is torah observant drivers, and B’H’ there are those as well.January 23, 2012 9:04 pm at 9:04 pm #846071
I think special bus Rabbeim should drive the bus, this way, no bittul torah on the bus.January 23, 2012 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #846072
Chamira sakanta m’issurah!
I can’t believe all the cr poiskim are debating trivial points. Ladies should not be driving our bnei torah for one reason only. They are lady drivers! Safety first!
If anyone has to get on a bus that is driven by a woman, let it be girls, who don’t learn torah anyway.January 23, 2012 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #846073
I had such a good response, and all I got was one bite, and they thought I was serious!
Anyway, I agree with yitayningwut.January 23, 2012 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #846074
Squeak: Are you for Real???January 24, 2012 8:59 pm at 8:59 pm #846075
“the balding smelly flabby-and-showing-it female drivers.”
No doubt, you must be talking about Varsity buses <shudder>.
I would expect the drivers doing the Mesivta boy route to be,
Then again, if the shoe fits… 🙂January 25, 2012 12:46 am at 12:46 am #846076
Boro Park GirlMember
many boys chedarim have private transportatoin around here specifically to avoid this problem!January 25, 2012 10:35 am at 10:35 am #846077
The Beis Shemesh solution doesn’t look so extreme anymore.January 25, 2012 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #846078
Squeak, actually on average women have better driving records than men.January 25, 2012 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #846079
I know some women who work in a lunchroom/cafeteria in Yeshivos. Should this be viewed as a problem (if someone is hungry, what should they do). Many of these women are mothers of bochurim helping pay the tuition by working. Where is the problem.January 25, 2012 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #846080
on average women have better driving records than men.
1. Explain what you mean by driving records. We should not care about speeding or reckless driving for this purpose; we should only care about accidents caused, which is the bottom line.
2. How do those numbers change when you remove the drunk drivers from the mix?January 25, 2012 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #846081
ED IT ORParticipant
avi k, the lady drivers CAUSE the accidents which in itself is a wrong term as it suggests no one was at fault the correct term could be incident?January 25, 2012 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #846082
Yitai, how can you send a guy like that to work in the outside world? If one guy was nichshol in a such a matzav, it is not a raya.January 25, 2012 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #846083
crazybrit: so men don’t cause motor vehicle accidents, only women, huh?
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