May 12, 2017 8:51 am at 8:51 am #1274531rebshidduchParticipant
What is there to do in Lakewood? As in resteraunts and shopping stores like Junees? Supermarkets? Please let me know names of places.May 12, 2017 10:44 am at 10:44 am #1274656
That’s like asking what there is to see in NYC. Or what store can I shop at on 13th Ave
Who is shopping? And for what occasion? And what sort of food are you looking for? Dairy? Meat? Takeout?May 12, 2017 11:45 am at 11:45 am #1274722JosephParticipant
Lakewood is kuloy Torah.May 12, 2017 12:51 pm at 12:51 pm #1274781MenoParticipant
Lakewood is kuloy Torah.
Tell that to this guy:May 14, 2017 8:23 am at 8:23 am #1275189rebshidduchParticipant
streekgeek, not everyone goes to Lakewood so often. Some have not been in a few years. Just in general good resteraunt suggestions and nice clothing stores for women.May 14, 2017 9:53 am at 9:53 am #1275296takahmamashParticipant
I thought there are English speaking tours of BMG for those interested. Maybe you can do that. I don’t know how much the tour costs.May 14, 2017 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #1275793
rebshidduch- you’re right, there are just so many places to shop and eat here. Was wondering what kind of place you’re looking for.
Re women’s clothing, as you said there is Junee’s. Right around the corner is probably the biggest clothing store, Brooklyn South West – it can get very busy there. Your best bet is to go on a weekday morning.
Girls on Glen is nice, as is Periwinkle.
Re food, Entree is my fave by far. Nice elegant affordable meat restaurant.
Ottimo is an upper scale dairy restaurant. It’s in the same shopping plaza as Junee.
Pizzano and Circa are both “nicer” pizza stores.
Four Corners Bagels has three locations, great food and even better iced coffee slush if you’re in to that kind of thing.
Let me know if you need any other recommendations or addresses. Been living here a while…May 15, 2017 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #1276889JosephParticipant
This is a bit like asking when being oleh regel where can one find the hot dog vendors and liquor stores in the Beis Hamikdash vicinityMay 15, 2017 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #1276873iacisrmmaParticipant
Supermarkets: Gourmet Glatt (where Shoprite used to be on Rt. 9); Season’s on Cedar Bridge Ave.;May 15, 2017 4:52 pm at 4:52 pm #1276634misteryudiParticipant
If you’re looking for Jewish/ kosher options, there isn’t much in Lakewood. Maybe like 1 or 2 supermarkets that have kosher options, and possibly a small book store. If you are looking for lots of options, better to try Cassville or Atlantic City.May 15, 2017 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #1277007tobsParticipant
Yapchik and Carlos and Gabbys are both excellent restaurants. Also, they have Sprinkles there in the same shopping center as Gourmet GlattMay 16, 2017 3:46 am at 3:46 am #1277016WinnieThePoohParticipant
No it’s not. And RebShidduch would not be welcomed into the mekomos of Torah in Lakewood; those are reserved for men.
Nothing wrong with shopping and eating. It is often hard for OOTers to find tznius clothing in their hometowns, esp the summer. So they go to the nearest large frum community on shopping sprees. They may get hungry too while they are shopping all day. I bet RebShidduch needed to be in Lakewood and is taking advantage of the opportunity to shop for things she cannot find at home.May 16, 2017 11:52 am at 11:52 am #1277191
Yapchik and Carlos and Gabbys are both excellent restaurants
Carlos and Gabby closed. There is a new dairy place there, haven’t tried it (yet).May 16, 2017 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #1277230
When I lived in Lakewood, for clothes shopping I went to Kohl’s in Howell (just outside Lakewood).
Disclaimer: I’m not much of a shopper.
For ice cream, there is:
1. Yismach – across from the library on Lexington between 4rth and 5th
2. Sprinkles – already mentioned by Tobs -in the Shoprite shopping plaza (which is now the Gourmet Glatt shopping plaza)
3. California Swirls – 214 Clifton (it’s actually frozen yogurt, not ice cream).
For bagels, I liked Four Corners Bagels (already mentioned by Streekgeek).May 16, 2017 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #1277232
Warning for anyone posting on this thread: Please note that it is assur according to halacha to say anything negative about any stores or products, etc. (no one has so far, B”H, just want to make sure that no one does, because not everyone is aware of that halacha).May 16, 2017 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #1277238
For shoes, I always went to a store on Clifton whose name I no longer remember. It was on the same side of the street as KFS and I think it was nearby.May 16, 2017 1:27 pm at 1:27 pm #1277253👑RebYidd23Participant
It’s not that simple. For example, if someone has a terrible dog allergy and a clothing store sells clothing made from dog hair, you have to warn them or they could get a severe reaction.May 16, 2017 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #1277258–Participant
What’s wrong with that? Are hot dogs and liquor excluded from Maaser Sheni?
What happened to my signature line?May 16, 2017 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #1277264
RY – while it is true that most things are permissible when said under certain conditions, I don’t think your example is the best example since it is not negative in any case.
I would think that a better example would be if someone asked you if the clothing in a certain store is good quality or if they asked you which of the ice cream places in Lakewood has better ice cream, etc, and since it is l’toeles you may be allowed to respond (although it may not be so simple, so one should ask first).
The problem in this case is that since it’s a public setting, even if it’s l’toeles to tell Rebshidduch something, it would still be assur to post it online.May 16, 2017 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #1277266
On second thought, it probably would be loshon hora to say that clothing is made from dog’s hair, so it probably would be assur to post it online even if someone has allergies to dog’s hair.
If it comes up, ask a sheilah first. Maybe you could pass on the message through the moderators.May 16, 2017 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #1277274👑RebYidd23Participant
Clothing made from dog hair would be seen as a negative by some people.May 16, 2017 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #1277280
I guess my afterthought hadn’t yet been posted when you wrote that.May 16, 2017 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #1277284lesschumrasParticipant
LU, bad businessmen, contractors, store owners etc all hide behind accusations of lashon harah to rip off customers.
Again, you never answered where you received your Smicha so please refrain from issuing blanket psaks assuring things based on your opinionMay 16, 2017 3:59 pm at 3:59 pm #1277324
same place you did – at Har Sinai. Apparently, I’ve done more reviewing than you have since then (at least of certain halachos). Go read through Sefer Chofetz Chaim and you will see that I had an obligation to write what I did.May 16, 2017 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #1277330
The Mitzvah of הוכח תוכיח applies to all Jews, not just ones with semicha. It is incumbent upon women as well as men, even though women can’t get semicha (which has no halachic meaning nowadays in any case and is not necessarily an accurate reflection of a person’s knowledge, even if the person is a male person. The lack of semicha certainly reflects nothing about a female’s knowledge, so asking her where she received her semicha is rather absurd).May 16, 2017 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #1277340iacisrmmaParticipant
LU: Have you heard the expression “zis a shad oif yiddisheh gelt”? Am I not allowed to tell someone that store “x” sells item “a” cheaper then store “y”? or what if I say that I went to the Borsalino Hat Store on Rt. 9 and was extremely satisfied with their service, does that constitute loshon harah on the other stores (which I did not visit)?May 16, 2017 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #1277350
Again, you never answered where you received your Smicha so please refrain from issuing blanket psaks assuring things based on your opinion
It would seem fair to ask you where you got your semicha from to pasken that LU shouldn’t express her opinion.May 16, 2017 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #1277352🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Oh please, bit of a stretchMay 16, 2017 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #1277354
Why?May 16, 2017 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #1277356
Thank you, DY. I was actually considering writing the same.May 16, 2017 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #1277358
1. According to halacha, you are not allowed to say something negative about a store or its products. Bli neder, I will try to find you the precise source if I have a chance tonight.
2. I don’t know Yiddish.
3. I am not sure of the answer to your specific questions. I would assume it depends if there is something in your statement which can reflect negatively on one of the stores in question and can potentially cause them to lose business. I don’t see how the second example can possibly be loshon hora especially if you make it clear that you didn’t visit the other stores.
I would think that the first example might constitute loshon hora, so I would ask a sheilah.
Again, keep in mind that we are discussing writing something in a public forum which is very different from giving advice to a friend privately.
When in doubt, asking a sheilah is always best. I think that it is also a good idea to think about how you would feel if it were your store (granted that aitzah might not work for everyone, since not everyone is the same).
4. When I find the sources, they may discuss similar scenarios and answer these questions.
5. Ask a sheilah.May 16, 2017 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #1277363
OH! This reminds me of something.
A man named Stephen got his doctorate! Did I read this joke here? Where did I read it? It was like yesterday.
Stephen finally earned his doctorate.
Then he meets someone, and introduces himself, “Hi, I’m Stephen!”
“Hi Stev?en! Is that Stev?en with a V or a PH?
“Actually it’s a Stephen with a PhD.”
….So everyone here talking about semicha and no semicha and etc. What if someone was working on his semicha? What if someone got semicha and wasn’t passionate about it? What if someone is a woman who is passionate and knowledgeable and isn’t named Stephen?
Thanks 🙂May 16, 2017 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #1277368
LB – not sure what your point is. Can you clarify?
btw, semicha doesn’t have anything whatsoever to do with this discussion as I already pointed out. For one thing, all Jews are required to keep halacha whether they have semicha or not.
For another, to the best of my knowledge, having semicha today has no real halachic ramifications. It is possible for someone to have semicha and be an ignoramus, and it is possible for someone to not have semicha and be the Gadol Hador.
Generally speaking, the more Torahdik a person is and the more Torahdik the society, the less they care about titles and “degrees” and the more they care about a person’s Yiras Shamayim and limud Torah.May 16, 2017 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #1277374
LU, I’m pretty sure you’re that woman who isn’t named Stephen 🙂May 16, 2017 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #1277377
Thanks LB! 🙂
You’re definitely right about the last part!!!May 16, 2017 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #1277485
“Making a statement about a product that would discourage people from buying it constitutes speaking loshon hora as it could harm the livelihood of either the manufacturer or the storekeeper who sells it.” (Chofetz Chaim: A Lesson A Day by Rabbi Shimon Finkelman & Rabbi Yitzchak Berkowitz, p. 92)
Iacisrmma, it would seem to me that based on this, saying that store x sells an item cheaper than store y would be loshon hora since it will discourage people from buying at store y.May 16, 2017 10:09 pm at 10:09 pm #1277487
But if I don’t tell him, I cause the buyer a hefsed because he’ll spend more than he needs to.May 16, 2017 10:24 pm at 10:24 pm #1277489
loshon hora l’toeles is allowed under certain circumstances, so it may be permissible to tell an individual under certain circumstances.
I was talking about posting something online where that is not relevant since your post can be read by the entire world and not just that individual.May 16, 2017 10:30 pm at 10:30 pm #1277491
Was the quote from “A Lesson a Day” referring to posting online?
Besides, a difference in price on the same product is objective. Why wouldn’t it be l’toeles for everyone reading it?May 16, 2017 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #1277496
We had been discussing posting online.
I brought this in to show why writing something like this would be a problem online.
The quote from A lesson a day was talking about any kind of speech which would include both speaking to an individual as well as posting online.
As you pointed out, when it’s toeles AND if all the conditions of toeles are fulfilled, it can be permissible.
But I don’t think that can possibly apply online for the reason I already mentioned.May 16, 2017 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #1277498
Your “tzu shtel” between the case discussed in the sefer and that being discussed here doesn’t work.
The “reason” you stated earlier shouldn’t apply to prices, as I said, and you didn’t respond to.May 16, 2017 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #1277501
Bottom line is as you yourself pointed out elsewhere: if something is considered l”h and you think that it may be permissible in a particular case because it’s l’toeles, you have to ask a sheilah. Certainly, before posting something online (something that is brought down as being assur), one would have to ask a sheilah before posting it to find out if all the conditions of toeles apply (and if such a thing is possible in such a setting).May 16, 2017 11:17 pm at 11:17 pm #1277504
Anyway prices change. So it’s unfair to publicize that X retailer’s Something is less than Y retailer’s Something.
Tomorrow it could be the opposite. Or the store has other incentives anyway that would actually make the buyer’s overall purchase less than the retailer who supposedly had a lower sale price on the item.
It’s advertising here in a sense and making comparisons doesn’t give a fair representation to the store. This isn’t Yelp.May 16, 2017 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #1277499
“Besides, a difference in price on the same product is objective. Why wouldn’t it be l’toeles for everyone reading it?”
According to that logic, this halacha wouldn’t exist in the first place. Clearly it is not always permitted to tell someone something about merchandise even when it’s true. It is only permissible in certain circumstances. It would be impossible for all of those conditions to be fulfilled in this kind of setting since they would have to be fulfilled for each person reading it and what and how you are allowed to say something to one person would be different than to another.May 16, 2017 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #1277503
derech agav, I have not been back to that thread (“I think I spoke l”h”) since I posted, but I had noticed that you and LB and RebYidd had posted so I checked your profiles to see what you had posted.
I have been wanting to thank you for understanding and explaining what I wrote. Also, I wanted to tell you that I understand your point, and I would probably agree with you in most similar cases, but there were reasons why I thought this case was different. I could be wrong – I’m really not sure – I can see either way.
I think my goal was attained (that LB should understand things a certain way which I think she did). If I had known that my words would be twisted to sound like feminism and possibly create a chillul Hashem, I might have phrased things differently (although that might have been offset by my concern for LB – I’m not sure).May 16, 2017 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #1277505lowerourtuition11210Participant
LU: I am not sure that “Lesson a Day” is applicable. I am not telling the person to avoid the product; just where he can purchase it cheaper.
The yiddish phrase i used above means “a waste of jewish money”.May 16, 2017 11:30 pm at 11:30 pm #1277506
Also, regarding prices, it’s not simply an objective fact – you are making a point of pointing out that the products in one store are more expensive which will discourage the shopper from shopping there. If you hadn’t pointed it out, she might not have cared enough to look into it. It’s possible that she is someone for whom money is not such an issue, so there was no (halachic) reason to point it out to her.
Furthermore, one of the conditions of toeles is that you have to say things as unnegatively as possible and mitigate the bad by saying any positive things you can. Presumably, if you are telling someone that the merchandise in Store A is more expensive than the merchandise in store B, then you would also have to let them know that it is better quality if it is relevant to the person you are speaking to.
But let’s say you are speaking to Shira who doesn’t know and doesn’t care about quality. All that matters to her is the price. But once you mention that the merchandise in Store A is not as good quality as the merchandise in store B, she will get nervous and think she has to buy in Store B, even though for her it would have made sense to save money and shop in store A. So you have just spoken l’H about Store B for no reason. (and maybe caused shalom bayis problems when her husband gets mad at her for spending money they don’t have).
On the other hand, Tova doesn’t really need to know which is less expensive – she needs to know which is better quality, so there was no reason to point out to her that Store A is cheaper. All she needed to know was that Store B is better quality. But if you tell her that Store A is cheaper without mentioning that Store B has better merchandise, then she will feel she has to shop in Store A. Since for her the quality of the merchandise is what matters and not the price, it was l”h to specifically point out to her that Store A is cheaper. And now she will have shalom bayis problems because her husband would have preferred that she buy the better quality merchandise.May 16, 2017 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #1277512
Just to make something clear: we are not talking about telling someone what something costs. We are talking about COMPARING two places and making a point of telling someone that one is more expensive than the other.
It’s like if someone is looking into a shidduch and they ask what Dovid’s IQ is. There is a big difference between saying that he has an IQ of 110 and saying that he is not as smart as Shmuely is.May 16, 2017 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #1277514
If I had known that my words would be twisted to sound like feminism and possibly create a chillul Hashem, I might have phrased things differently
My issue had nothing to do with feminism. It had to do with stating something definitively when you don’t have all relevantinformation, even if you think you might know enough. Fortunately, no harm was done, because LB didn’t take your words as definitive, but don’t count on that in all cases.May 16, 2017 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #1277513
According to that logic, this halacha wouldn’t exist in the first place.
I told you a clear distinction. The halacha exists, but you are misapplying it.
Presumably, if you are telling someone that the merchandise in Store A is more expensive than the merchandise in store B, then you would also have to let them know that it is better quality if it is relevant to the person you are speaking to.
I said the same product. Let’s please not keep shifting the discussion.
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