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  • #1274531

    rebshidduch
    Participant

    What is there to do in Lakewood? As in resteraunts and shopping stores like Junees? Supermarkets? Please let me know names of places.

    #1274656

    streekgeek
    Participant

    That’s like asking what there is to see in NYC. Or what store can I shop at on 13th Ave

    Who is shopping? And for what occasion? And what sort of food are you looking for? Dairy? Meat? Takeout?

    #1274722

    Joseph
    Participant

    Lakewood is kuloy Torah.

    #1274781

    Meno
    Participant
    #1275189

    rebshidduch
    Participant

    streekgeek, not everyone goes to Lakewood so often. Some have not been in a few years. Just in general good resteraunt suggestions and nice clothing stores for women.

    #1275296

    takahmamash
    Participant

    I thought there are English speaking tours of BMG for those interested. Maybe you can do that. I don’t know how much the tour costs.

    #1275793

    streekgeek
    Participant

    rebshidduch- you’re right, there are just so many places to shop and eat here. Was wondering what kind of place you’re looking for.

    Re women’s clothing, as you said there is Junee’s. Right around the corner is probably the biggest clothing store, Brooklyn South West – it can get very busy there. Your best bet is to go on a weekday morning.
    Girls on Glen is nice, as is Periwinkle.

    Re food, Entree is my fave by far. Nice elegant affordable meat restaurant.
    Ottimo is an upper scale dairy restaurant. It’s in the same shopping plaza as Junee.
    Pizzano and Circa are both “nicer” pizza stores.
    Four Corners Bagels has three locations, great food and even better iced coffee slush if you’re in to that kind of thing.

    Let me know if you need any other recommendations or addresses. Been living here a while…

    #1276889

    Joseph
    Participant

    This is a bit like asking when being oleh regel where can one find the hot dog vendors and liquor stores in the Beis Hamikdash vicinity

    #1276873

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    Supermarkets: Gourmet Glatt (where Shoprite used to be on Rt. 9); Season’s on Cedar Bridge Ave.;

    #1276634

    misteryudi
    Participant

    If you’re looking for Jewish/ kosher options, there isn’t much in Lakewood. Maybe like 1 or 2 supermarkets that have kosher options, and possibly a small book store. If you are looking for lots of options, better to try Cassville or Atlantic City.

    #1277007

    tobs
    Participant

    Yapchik and Carlos and Gabbys are both excellent restaurants. Also, they have Sprinkles there in the same shopping center as Gourmet Glatt

    #1277016

    WinnieThePooh
    Participant

    No it’s not. And RebShidduch would not be welcomed into the mekomos of Torah in Lakewood; those are reserved for men.
    Nothing wrong with shopping and eating. It is often hard for OOTers to find tznius clothing in their hometowns, esp the summer. So they go to the nearest large frum community on shopping sprees. They may get hungry too while they are shopping all day. I bet RebShidduch needed to be in Lakewood and is taking advantage of the opportunity to shop for things she cannot find at home.

    #1277191

    streekgeek
    Participant

    Yapchik and Carlos and Gabbys are both excellent restaurants

    Carlos and Gabby closed. There is a new dairy place there, haven’t tried it (yet).

    #1277230

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    When I lived in Lakewood, for clothes shopping I went to Kohl’s in Howell (just outside Lakewood).

    Disclaimer: I’m not much of a shopper.

    For ice cream, there is:
    1. Yismach – across from the library on Lexington between 4rth and 5th
    2. Sprinkles – already mentioned by Tobs -in the Shoprite shopping plaza (which is now the Gourmet Glatt shopping plaza)
    3. California Swirls – 214 Clifton (it’s actually frozen yogurt, not ice cream).

    For bagels, I liked Four Corners Bagels (already mentioned by Streekgeek).

    #1277232

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Warning for anyone posting on this thread: Please note that it is assur according to halacha to say anything negative about any stores or products, etc. (no one has so far, B”H, just want to make sure that no one does, because not everyone is aware of that halacha).

    #1277238

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    For shoes, I always went to a store on Clifton whose name I no longer remember. It was on the same side of the street as KFS and I think it was nearby.

    #1277253

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    It’s not that simple. For example, if someone has a terrible dog allergy and a clothing store sells clothing made from dog hair, you have to warn them or they could get a severe reaction.

    #1277258


    Participant

    What’s wrong with that? Are hot dogs and liquor excluded from Maaser Sheni?

    What happened to my signature line?

    #1277264

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    RY – while it is true that most things are permissible when said under certain conditions, I don’t think your example is the best example since it is not negative in any case.

    I would think that a better example would be if someone asked you if the clothing in a certain store is good quality or if they asked you which of the ice cream places in Lakewood has better ice cream, etc, and since it is l’toeles you may be allowed to respond (although it may not be so simple, so one should ask first).

    The problem in this case is that since it’s a public setting, even if it’s l’toeles to tell Rebshidduch something, it would still be assur to post it online.

    #1277266

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    On second thought, it probably would be loshon hora to say that clothing is made from dog’s hair, so it probably would be assur to post it online even if someone has allergies to dog’s hair.

    If it comes up, ask a sheilah first. Maybe you could pass on the message through the moderators.

    #1277274

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Clothing made from dog hair would be seen as a negative by some people.

    #1277280

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    I guess my afterthought hadn’t yet been posted when you wrote that.

    #1277284

    lesschumras
    Participant

    LU, bad businessmen, contractors, store owners etc all hide behind accusations of lashon harah to rip off customers.
    Again, you never answered where you received your Smicha so please refrain from issuing blanket psaks assuring things based on your opinion

    #1277324

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    same place you did – at Har Sinai. Apparently, I’ve done more reviewing than you have since then (at least of certain halachos). Go read through Sefer Chofetz Chaim and you will see that I had an obligation to write what I did.

    #1277330

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    The Mitzvah of הוכח תוכיח applies to all Jews, not just ones with semicha. It is incumbent upon women as well as men, even though women can’t get semicha (which has no halachic meaning nowadays in any case and is not necessarily an accurate reflection of a person’s knowledge, even if the person is a male person. The lack of semicha certainly reflects nothing about a female’s knowledge, so asking her where she received her semicha is rather absurd).

    #1277340

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    LU: Have you heard the expression “zis a shad oif yiddisheh gelt”? Am I not allowed to tell someone that store “x” sells item “a” cheaper then store “y”? or what if I say that I went to the Borsalino Hat Store on Rt. 9 and was extremely satisfied with their service, does that constitute loshon harah on the other stores (which I did not visit)?

    #1277350

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Again, you never answered where you received your Smicha so please refrain from issuing blanket psaks assuring things based on your opinion

    It would seem fair to ask you where you got your semicha from to pasken that LU shouldn’t express her opinion.

    #1277352

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Oh please, bit of a stretch

    #1277354

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Why?

    #1277356

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Thank you, DY. I was actually considering writing the same.

    #1277358

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    1. According to halacha, you are not allowed to say something negative about a store or its products. Bli neder, I will try to find you the precise source if I have a chance tonight.

    2. I don’t know Yiddish.

    3. I am not sure of the answer to your specific questions. I would assume it depends if there is something in your statement which can reflect negatively on one of the stores in question and can potentially cause them to lose business. I don’t see how the second example can possibly be loshon hora especially if you make it clear that you didn’t visit the other stores.
    I would think that the first example might constitute loshon hora, so I would ask a sheilah.

    Again, keep in mind that we are discussing writing something in a public forum which is very different from giving advice to a friend privately.
    When in doubt, asking a sheilah is always best. I think that it is also a good idea to think about how you would feel if it were your store (granted that aitzah might not work for everyone, since not everyone is the same).

    4. When I find the sources, they may discuss similar scenarios and answer these questions.

    5. Ask a sheilah.

    #1277363

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    OH! This reminds me of something.

    A man named Stephen got his doctorate! Did I read this joke here? Where did I read it? It was like yesterday.

    Anyway…

    Stephen finally earned his doctorate.

    Then he meets someone, and introduces himself, “Hi, I’m Stephen!”

    “Hi Stev?en! Is that Stev?en with a V or a PH?

    “Actually it’s a Stephen with a PhD.”

    Boom.

    ….So everyone here talking about semicha and no semicha and etc. What if someone was working on his semicha? What if someone got semicha and wasn’t passionate about it? What if someone is a woman who is passionate and knowledgeable and isn’t named Stephen?

    Thanks 🙂

    #1277368

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    LB – not sure what your point is. Can you clarify?

    btw, semicha doesn’t have anything whatsoever to do with this discussion as I already pointed out. For one thing, all Jews are required to keep halacha whether they have semicha or not.

    For another, to the best of my knowledge, having semicha today has no real halachic ramifications. It is possible for someone to have semicha and be an ignoramus, and it is possible for someone to not have semicha and be the Gadol Hador.

    Generally speaking, the more Torahdik a person is and the more Torahdik the society, the less they care about titles and “degrees” and the more they care about a person’s Yiras Shamayim and limud Torah.

    #1277374

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    LU, I’m pretty sure you’re that woman who isn’t named Stephen 🙂

    #1277377

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Thanks LB! 🙂

    You’re definitely right about the last part!!!

    #1277485

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “Making a statement about a product that would discourage people from buying it constitutes speaking loshon hora as it could harm the livelihood of either the manufacturer or the storekeeper who sells it.” (Chofetz Chaim: A Lesson A Day by Rabbi Shimon Finkelman & Rabbi Yitzchak Berkowitz, p. 92)

    Iacisrmma, it would seem to me that based on this, saying that store x sells an item cheaper than store y would be loshon hora since it will discourage people from buying at store y.

    #1277487

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    But if I don’t tell him, I cause the buyer a hefsed because he’ll spend more than he needs to.

    #1277489

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    loshon hora l’toeles is allowed under certain circumstances, so it may be permissible to tell an individual under certain circumstances.

    I was talking about posting something online where that is not relevant since your post can be read by the entire world and not just that individual.

    #1277491

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Was the quote from “A Lesson a Day” referring to posting online?

    Besides, a difference in price on the same product is objective. Why wouldn’t it be l’toeles for everyone reading it?

    #1277496

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    We had been discussing posting online.
    I brought this in to show why writing something like this would be a problem online.
    The quote from A lesson a day was talking about any kind of speech which would include both speaking to an individual as well as posting online.

    As you pointed out, when it’s toeles AND if all the conditions of toeles are fulfilled, it can be permissible.
    But I don’t think that can possibly apply online for the reason I already mentioned.

    #1277498

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Your “tzu shtel” between the case discussed in the sefer and that being discussed here doesn’t work.

    The “reason” you stated earlier shouldn’t apply to prices, as I said, and you didn’t respond to.

    #1277501

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Bottom line is as you yourself pointed out elsewhere: if something is considered l”h and you think that it may be permissible in a particular case because it’s l’toeles, you have to ask a sheilah. Certainly, before posting something online (something that is brought down as being assur), one would have to ask a sheilah before posting it to find out if all the conditions of toeles apply (and if such a thing is possible in such a setting).

    #1277504

    Lightbrite
    Participant

    Anyway prices change. So it’s unfair to publicize that X retailer’s Something is less than Y retailer’s Something.

    Tomorrow it could be the opposite. Or the store has other incentives anyway that would actually make the buyer’s overall purchase less than the retailer who supposedly had a lower sale price on the item.

    It’s advertising here in a sense and making comparisons doesn’t give a fair representation to the store. This isn’t Yelp.

    #1277499

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    “Besides, a difference in price on the same product is objective. Why wouldn’t it be l’toeles for everyone reading it?”

    According to that logic, this halacha wouldn’t exist in the first place. Clearly it is not always permitted to tell someone something about merchandise even when it’s true. It is only permissible in certain circumstances. It would be impossible for all of those conditions to be fulfilled in this kind of setting since they would have to be fulfilled for each person reading it and what and how you are allowed to say something to one person would be different than to another.

    #1277503

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    derech agav, I have not been back to that thread (“I think I spoke l”h”) since I posted, but I had noticed that you and LB and RebYidd had posted so I checked your profiles to see what you had posted.

    I have been wanting to thank you for understanding and explaining what I wrote. Also, I wanted to tell you that I understand your point, and I would probably agree with you in most similar cases, but there were reasons why I thought this case was different. I could be wrong – I’m really not sure – I can see either way.

    I think my goal was attained (that LB should understand things a certain way which I think she did). If I had known that my words would be twisted to sound like feminism and possibly create a chillul Hashem, I might have phrased things differently (although that might have been offset by my concern for LB – I’m not sure).

    #1277505

    LU: I am not sure that “Lesson a Day” is applicable. I am not telling the person to avoid the product; just where he can purchase it cheaper.

    The yiddish phrase i used above means “a waste of jewish money”.

    #1277506

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Also, regarding prices, it’s not simply an objective fact – you are making a point of pointing out that the products in one store are more expensive which will discourage the shopper from shopping there. If you hadn’t pointed it out, she might not have cared enough to look into it. It’s possible that she is someone for whom money is not such an issue, so there was no (halachic) reason to point it out to her.

    Furthermore, one of the conditions of toeles is that you have to say things as unnegatively as possible and mitigate the bad by saying any positive things you can. Presumably, if you are telling someone that the merchandise in Store A is more expensive than the merchandise in store B, then you would also have to let them know that it is better quality if it is relevant to the person you are speaking to.

    But let’s say you are speaking to Shira who doesn’t know and doesn’t care about quality. All that matters to her is the price. But once you mention that the merchandise in Store A is not as good quality as the merchandise in store B, she will get nervous and think she has to buy in Store B, even though for her it would have made sense to save money and shop in store A. So you have just spoken l’H about Store B for no reason. (and maybe caused shalom bayis problems when her husband gets mad at her for spending money they don’t have).

    On the other hand, Tova doesn’t really need to know which is less expensive – she needs to know which is better quality, so there was no reason to point out to her that Store A is cheaper. All she needed to know was that Store B is better quality. But if you tell her that Store A is cheaper without mentioning that Store B has better merchandise, then she will feel she has to shop in Store A. Since for her the quality of the merchandise is what matters and not the price, it was l”h to specifically point out to her that Store A is cheaper. And now she will have shalom bayis problems because her husband would have preferred that she buy the better quality merchandise.

    #1277512

    Lilmod Ulelamaid
    Participant

    Just to make something clear: we are not talking about telling someone what something costs. We are talking about COMPARING two places and making a point of telling someone that one is more expensive than the other.

    It’s like if someone is looking into a shidduch and they ask what Dovid’s IQ is. There is a big difference between saying that he has an IQ of 110 and saying that he is not as smart as Shmuely is.

    #1277514

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If I had known that my words would be twisted to sound like feminism and possibly create a chillul Hashem, I might have phrased things differently

    My issue had nothing to do with feminism. It had to do with stating something definitively when you don’t have all relevant​information, even if you think you might know enough. Fortunately, no harm was done, because LB didn’t take your words as definitive, but don’t count on that in all cases.

    #1277513

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    According to that logic, this halacha wouldn’t exist in the first place.

    I told you a clear distinction. The halacha exists, but you are misapplying it.

    Presumably, if you are telling someone that the merchandise in Store A is more expensive than the merchandise in store B, then you would also have to let them know that it is better quality if it is relevant to the person you are speaking to.

    I said the same product. Let’s please not keep shifting the discussion.

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