leaving shul early? daven earlier!

Home Forums Controversial Topics leaving shul early? daven earlier!

Viewing 31 posts - 1 through 31 (of 31 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #592783

    red sock
    Participant

    Is it just me or are there a considerable amount of people who constantly leave shul right after shemona esreh every day. If they need to be at work at a certain time then they should daven at an earlier minyan! I know there maybe few people who might have good excuses but in general I don’t know what the heter is.

    #703679

    WIY
    Member

    Red sock

    I agree but there’s a simple answer.

    The early leavers may not appreciate what davening is. To many people davening is a bother and a burden. Its not fun. Its Avodah (avodah shebelev) it takes hard work to daven like a mentch. Many people have no connection to their davening. Every second is torture for them and they can’t wait to get out of shul.

    We should be happy these people come to shul at all.

    #703680

    squeak
    Participant

    What if you are davening at the earliest possible minyan (i.e. at sunrise)? What you are saying would not apply. The fact is, that the halacha for a person who is yoitze laderech is different than for a batlan.

    In the winter, sunrise is often not early enough for people who work a full day. I know of a minyan that davens before sunrise during the winter specifically to meet that need (as opposed to many shuls that constantly change the time of the first minyan so that it is never before hanetz hachama). Normative halacha permits a yoitze ladreceh to daven before sunrise b’yechidus- k”v with a minyan.

    #703681

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Of course, if there’s only one minyan in town… (not everyone lives in Brooklyn, of course).

    The Wolf

    #703682

    charliehall
    Participant

    Not so simple, especially this time of year, when you can’t pray Shacharit that early.

    #703683

    apushatayid
    Participant

    RS. There is always the possibility that

    . there is no earlier minyan, especially this time of the year.

    . they asked a shayla and were told its better to daven like a mentch at this minyan and leave after kedusha then to play catch up and miss tefilla betzibbur at an earlier minyan.

    I am baffled at the myriad of topics started that harp on negativity.

    #703684

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Sometimes, they go to the earliest minyan possible as it is.

    #703685

    justsmile613
    Participant

    dont judge people you never know why they have to leave early.

    #703686

    apushatayid
    Participant

    I retract my first response. Please strike from the record 🙂

    #703687

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Is it just me”

    I believe so.

    #703688

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I, personally, am makpid to keep my tallis/tefillin on until after the last kaddish is over. As a result of this, I am always in shul until the davening is over.

    Nonetheless, I understand that my schedule may well be more flexible than the schedule of others. I try not to judge other people because, frankly, I don’t know what their situation is. For all I know, they may have a real, legitimate reason for leaving early… and who am I to complain about them?

    The Wolf

    #703689

    I, personally, am makpid to keep my tallis/tefillin on until after the last kaddish is over.

    i think this an exemplary mode of conduct (when possible)

    #703690

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    i think this an exemplary mode of conduct (when possible)

    Thank you. But I also understand that whereas my schedule has some flexibility (I don’t have to be at work by a certain time), other people do not have that luxury.

    The Wolf

    As a side note, you may not want to praise me too quickly — I only keep them on until after the last kaddish of davening proper. If someone starts saying tehillim after davening, I’ll take off my tallis/tefillin while they’re being recited.

    The Wolf

    #703691

    student
    Participant

    I know of several people who go to shul to help make a minyan at the announced time (since so many people arrive late, another topic altogether) even though they may have to leave early.

    #703692

    mamashtakah
    Member

    Years ago, I asked the Rav of my [then] shule about starting davening earlier to accommodate the people who were leaving minyan early. His answer was that no matter how early davening started, there will always be people who leave early.

    #703693

    Helpful
    Member

    What’s the excuse when this happens at the 8 or 9 o’clock Shachris — and there are earlier minyanim?

    #703694

    LBK
    Participant

    gotta love how some people spend so much time worrying about what other people are doing.

    #703695

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    What’s the excuse when this happens at the 8 or 9 o’clock Shachris — and there are earlier minyanim?

    Have you *never* meant to attend an earlier minyan, woke up late, and then found yourself running late for wherever you needed to go?

    The Wolf

    #703696

    apushatayid
    Participant

    “What’s the excuse when this happens at the 8 or 9 o’clock Shachris”

    What’s that?

    #703697

    Thank you. But I also understand that whereas my schedule has some flexibility (I don’t have to be at work by a certain time), other people do not have that luxury.

    i have seen MANY people take off their Tallis and Tfillin a minute or so before davening ends on a regular basis (often during the last Kaddish) whenever the minyon ends that day, and even when they are going to hang around and shmooze for a while

    #703698

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Mod-80. Perhaps I’m an einikel of the Berditchiver, who knows. Isn’t it wonderful that they take off their tefillin just before the end of davening, so that they are not wearing them while hanging around, and shmoozing?

    #703699

    red sock
    Participant

    I thought that I had made it clear in my original post that I understood that there are some people who are going to have a good excuse. I am referring to people who at every davening i.e. even when they daven at a later minyan or on Sundays (whats the excuse then) chronically are leaving right after their shemoneh esreh. I just feel that this is wrong, thats all

    #703700

    apushatayid
    Participant

    Thank you for sharing.

    #703701

    so right
    Member

    Hey, we gotta be dan lkaf zchus. He probably left because he had an important business meeting. That phone call he took in middle of davening (before leaving early)? Same thing… he couldn’t lose that deal. It happens every day (the phone calls and leaving early)? He needs the parnasa.

    #703702

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Yes. We come late, leave early, and complain that they go too fast.

    #703703

    cherrybim
    Participant

    It’s really no one’s business when anyone takes off their t’filin or leaves before the end of davining. The SA allows the taking off of t’filin after “Uvah L’tzion” so don’t be frummer than the SA.

    And m’ikor hadin one does not have to say everything written in the sidder if you don’t have the time, but find out what you can omit.

    I think it’s great that yiden can come to minyan at all so if they need to leave early, that’s ok with me. Personally, I’m there in the morning an hour before shachris and don’t hurry home after maariv, but to each his own.

    #703704

    apushatayid
    Participant

    So Right. Your getting good at it.

    #703705

    Fact is Tefilla B’kavvana is min hatorah. Tefillah b’tzibbur is a d’rabannan. Many people find that davening in a fast minyan precludes them from davening with kavvanah. So they daven what they can b’tzibbur and then they have to leave and catch upo with kavvanah when they are able to.

    Many people daven 3 times a day in a way that is 100% good d’rabannan but with no kavvanah. So they are mekayyem the d’rabbanann but leaving out the d’oraysa.

    Apart from which I must mention that I am envious of the OP for whom observing and criticizing other yidden seem to be the biggeest issues he has. Worry less about what other people are doing concentrate on imoproving yourself. At the very least try and find a limmud z’chus forn those who must leave early.

    #703706

    Josh31
    Participant

    Moshe Rose has to be in this thread…

    #703707

    squeak
    Participant

    Wolf-

    Halachically, one can remove tefillin after “four times kaddish and three times kedusha”. Which means after the kaddish following Uva L’tzion. You are wearing tefillin longer than that, so the praise is deserved.

    4 Kaddish- After korbanos, after Yishtabach, after tachanun, after Uva L’tzion

    3 Kedusha- In birchos krias shma, in chazarat hasha”tz, in Uva L’tzion.

    #703708

    bpt
    Participant

    I don’t leave early, but often come late, so I usualy switch rooms to a differnt minyan, so I can catch what I missed in the one that I picked up in middle, and then leave once I’ve filled in all the gaps (Example: I’ll hear kriyas hatorah at the 6:15 minyan, and then leave right before kriyas torah of the 7:00 minyan)

    But for the folks who do leave early, this morning, could have been one of mine. I davened at a minyan with a bal tefila whose voice roller-coasted (loud/low/on tune/off tune) and to my right, was someone who felt necessary to SHOUT his way thru davening.

    If ever there was a time that I would have left early, this would have been it. I’m a pretty patient guy, but whose to say what anothers patientce breaking-point is?

    Don’t judge another for leaving early.

Viewing 31 posts - 1 through 31 (of 31 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.