July 20, 2011 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #598113
I think it’ a very good thing they are instituting Leiby’s Law, but it doesn’t seem enough to me. Leiby a’h,walked down a mostly residential path, 44th street, until he met this horrible person. The new law would have designated stores with signs allowing a lost child to feel safe going in and asking for help. What if a child doesn’t pass a store? I don’t know what the solution is but it doesn’t seem complete.July 20, 2011 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #788083DroidMember
There are 3 commercial avenues along Leiby’s path (13th Avenue, 16th Avenue, and 18th Avenue).
That being said, any potential criminal, including Aron, could have participated in the “Safe Haven Program” to lure kids. I don’t think it is anything more than a publicity stunt by the politicians.July 20, 2011 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #788084
The problem with those cross streets is that it would have required Leiby a’h to turn on an avenue to find a store. This was his first time walking alone. I don’t think he knew the area well enough to orient himself. A child might also think “just a little bit further there might be a store”. I applaud the law and think it’s useful and necessary, I just think they need to do more. I think it should be compulsory in the case of a lost child to allow the searchers to see the store video. Shame on the Childrens Place for giving them a hard time with viewing it. That’s lost time. Maybe the videos should be directly linked and accessible to either the FBI or missing persons division. Imagine if they could view all surrounding outside house and store videos within minutes? How much faster they can help a child. Mr German proved the importance of that.July 20, 2011 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #788085ha ha ha haMember
Droid i can’t agree with you more there is no heads or tails in this law and it has more loopholes then anything else… give me a break!!July 20, 2011 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #788086charliehallParticipant
How about allowing kids to carry cell phones so they can call home when lost?July 20, 2011 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #788087Pac-ManMember
Only if it can ONLY call 911 and 1 or 2 (or even 4) other preprogrammed numbers (that go to his home and parents cellphone numbers and/or Hatzolah/Shomrim.)July 20, 2011 10:12 pm at 10:12 pm #788088Pac-ManMember
And incoming only accepts calls from the preprogrammed numbers.July 21, 2011 1:23 am at 1:23 am #788089
The preprogrammed cell phone is a great idea. Only caveat; children can lose or misplace them, so other measures are important. I definitely agree with the cell phone idea. I also think there needs to be a system put in place and legislation regarding missing persons having immediate access to videos. What are your thoughts on the video idea?July 21, 2011 1:38 am at 1:38 am #788090Boro Park GirlMember
Only if it can ONLY call 911 and 1 or 2 (or even 4) other preprogrammed numbers (that go to his home and parents cellphone numbers and/or Hatzolah/Shomrim.)
I think this is great!! 🙂
A girl on my bus in DC had one a few years ago and already then I thougth it was a great idea. Too bad it didn’t take off then, maybe now it will.July 21, 2011 6:36 am at 6:36 am #788091
I just noticed that the safe haven sticker would be available to designated prechecked homes. An improvement, but not a complete remedy. A stcker, unless huge may not be visible. I’d like to see how they make it visible to children.July 21, 2011 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #788092OfcourseMember
mom, Shame on the Childrens Place for giving them a hard time with viewing it.
I was thinking that thats exactly where the tragedy began!
If what youre saying is true, that they were difficult, they ought to be held responsible, publicly embarassed,and at least not profit from Jewish customers, no matter hw much we like their clothing!July 21, 2011 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #788093
ok. everyone here is going nuts about the childrens place. you DO realize that when German got there he spoke to an employee about viewing the film? NOT THE BOSS?! as an employee his job is to follow policy and his boss never told him “show surveillance footage to a guy who walks in and asks you.” regardless of the circumstances, the guy was just a worker. leave it alone.July 21, 2011 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #788094anParticipant
We have to be aware of the world we live in.
I believe that mamosh as an issue of mesirus nefesh a plan should be instituted that every Cheder, yeshiva, Beis Yaakov etc. teach children basic street safety. Not to talk to strangers, what to do if you are lost etc etc. I remember as a child (different time different country) that once or twice a year we would be spoken to by a community police officer and our teacher about these things and once a year we were taken on a walk in the street and shown how to cross a street etc, told NEVER to take a ride from a stranger etc. This is all common sense but somehow we have forgotten it.
Cell phones, and technology have their place, but there are those who will take issue with them. Rather than fighting over this we should do what is possible. What the politicians are suggesting is good as well, but things that start from within a community (the bottom) usually succeed faster.
I think that today especially this is an essential part of chinuch. A child will certainly listen to what his/her Rebbe or Morah will say, and it will also help teach a familiarity and respect of the police.
This would take up maybe one and a half hours each school year from say pre 1A until 4 or 5 grade.
It is always easier to find an argument to do nothing, But Maaser Hu Ha Ickuar (Action is the most important thing).July 21, 2011 2:28 pm at 2:28 pm #788095
I don’t know in the end if they complied with the request or not to allow them to see the videos, but I know they gave them a hard time, I think partlybecause of a lack of staff to help do it.
I really think there needs to be a system in place where missing persons can access the videos of local stores/houses (outside), to help them on the spot locate kids. They need to have immediate access online, not to waste time. This could have saved Leiby’s life a’h, as the whole way they located him was via video, which took I think more than 24 hours.July 21, 2011 2:28 pm at 2:28 pm #788096A Heimishe MomParticipant
I heard of a bracelet-phone with a “panic button” of sorts that a child would wear around his wrist and would therefore be much less likely to get lost. In England they also have a “Teddyphone” which looks like a teddy bear and can only call about 4 pre-programmed numbers.
The sticker program IS a great idea, but like most knee-jerk reaction ideas, the details need to be hammered out.July 21, 2011 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #788097
Bob maniac, I disagree with you. Imagine a person coming to you saying a child is lost who may have passed by your store and could we please see the video? Would you give them a hard time and say I can’t (b/c I don’t have permission, or I’m the only one here? Call a supervisor and get permission, ask what to do. I also find it improbable that an employee was alone. I’ve been in that store. It is almost always crazy busy, even on off days.
Heimishe mom- I love the bracelet phone. Where did you hear about that from?July 21, 2011 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #788098
as far as i know he DID call his boss but couldnt get through. youre all being way too hard on the worker. it really is not his fault. were you in his situation? no. so please hush.July 21, 2011 2:48 pm at 2:48 pm #788099
Maybe we can all take it on ourselves to speak with the hanhala of our children’s schools to arrange this kind of safety training by police? I think they did it in yeshivas Boyan, but I think we each need to insist upon it in our children’s school’s. not to act panicked, but why wait for school? The kids spend so much time outside in summer, let the camps start and have a repetitive run through at school.July 21, 2011 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #788100
Bob maniac, this is a matter of intelligence. A child is lost. Take a leap and make an independent decision to help. What’s so hard? I understand your wanting to be Dan lecaf zchus, but I think it’s misplaced in a situation of safety and danger to a child. Better that worker had risked losing their job, than deny a desperate person a chance to get help to locate a missing child.July 21, 2011 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #788101
thats lovely coming from someone whose job is not on the line…youre all seriously making way too big a deal of this. hindsight is 20/20…mazal tov. but its so much easier to condemn once you know teh end result. you werent in teh situation, so stop beating up on the guy. maybe he couldnt afford to lose that job? maybe he was behind on rent? until you know his cheshbon, please stop condemning him.
also its not as if he denied the cops or even shomrim…a guy walked into his shop and asked to see the footage…sure he invoked leiby, but german wasnt offical, personally i would have been suspicious as well.July 21, 2011 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #788102A Heimishe MomParticipant
Mommamia22: The truth is I can’t remember! Could be it was a discussion point and not an actual, available device. But it should be!! Cell phones have gotten pretty small. Would it be such a leap to make a simple one as a bracelet?July 21, 2011 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #788103
Ok. I get your perspective.
I think the point of the discussion is to try to learn something from it. We can’t learn for someone else the lessons they MAY need to learn. My point is, is it a possibility/realistic to advocate missing persons having a direct link to videos? My husband thinks it’s a violation of privacy rights, but being that it’s taping in public places, specifically with the option AVAILABLE to view BY missing persons IF someone gets lost, how is this a violation?July 21, 2011 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #788104
I feel an urgency to keep on top of this. We need to keep our eyes out for available devices, and what’s needed. What concerns me about phones is how many adults periodically misplace phones. Imagine kids! No less, imagine a kid on a bike, or at school, with notebooks, sefarim, knapsack, jacket… It’s a set-up for losing things. Maybe it should be a gps locating device small like a pin that clips onto clothing. We heard of something like that. Time to work on it. Give some controlled independence, when appropriate, with safety measures in place. We can’t cover all bases but we can try to cover some. Could we start a new lthread discussing and reviewing safety devices for kids? I think it would be helpful.July 21, 2011 7:25 pm at 7:25 pm #788105
For those interested, I started a new thread that will list safety devices.July 21, 2011 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #788106haifagirlParticipant
When I was a kid, there was a program in Chicago in which the police department provided signs for people to place in a prominent spot in their front window to let children know it was a safe place to go if they were lost or whatever. It worked fine then. No reason it couldn’t work now.July 21, 2011 9:34 pm at 9:34 pm #788107skiaddictMember
my friend just told me that levi aron is not even jewish but his mom is really his stepmum and his real one isnt jewish- is that a hopeful fantasy or true? does anyone know?July 22, 2011 1:57 am at 1:57 am #788108Ken ZaynMember
There are already gps bracelets and watches etc specifically designed as a tracking safety device where parents can know instantly on their cell phones where their child is. It even alerts them if the device is removed. Do a google search to find out more.
On the main issue of safe stores or homes, it would work amazingly if they all had cctv cameras that were either networked or internet linked. Then the issue of can we trust this guy to run a safe place is sorted because they cant hide the fact that a particular person or child entered the store. And faces can be picked out by computer in seconds. In the UK, police cameras pick out faces of known trouble makers in seconds amongst crowds of 85,000 at soccer matches.
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