December 28, 2020 10:04 pm at 10:04 pm #1932885
Huju -“Oscar Lopez Rivera served 36 years in prison, and his sentence was commuted when he was more than 60 years old.”
So you’re saying any Terrorist – when they hit 60 y.o. get a “Get out of Jail Free Card!?!
Is the Policy of all You Libs?!?December 28, 2020 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #1932895Amil ZolaParticipant
GW Bush, his son, Clinton and Obama ALL followed DOJ procedures for pardons and commutations. As per the usual, our current President did not. Nothing new. There is good news though as someone mentioned up thread, none of those pardoned can claim the 5th when called on to testify later.December 29, 2020 1:08 am at 1:08 am #1932931
AZ -“GW Bush, his son, Clinton and Obama ALL followed DOJ procedures for pardons and commutations. As per the usual, our current President did not. Nothing new.”
So he didn’t. What you Libs are trying to do – is manipulate e/o.
The president doesn’t have to follow people under him, like the DOJ.
But releasing Terrorists, like Obama did, should be Illegal!
It shouldn’t be within his legal authority to Pardon or Commute Terrorists!December 29, 2020 11:31 am at 11:31 am #1933106Amil ZolaParticipant
Health, I’m merely trying to show that some presidents, both Rs and Ds, follow rules and regulations regarding pardons and commutations, while our current president did not.December 29, 2020 11:57 am at 11:57 am #1933122Reb EliezerParticipant
Trump bypassed tbe pardon advisory board.December 29, 2020 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #1933138ujmParticipant
Amil: Constitutional Law 101 for you — the President has the absolute right and authority directly under the constitution to pardon or commute any federal conviction, for any reason, without any necessity to have the case go through any formal review whatsoever.
That constitutional rule takes precedence over any technical regulations or review bodies.
Furthermore, previous presidents have as well granted pardons and commutations outside the formal Justice Department process.December 29, 2020 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #1933162
To Health: No, I did not say any terrorists gets out of jail when he hits age 60. I am too tired, or lazy, to explain the typical process followed and the reasons for granting pardons. I am not even sure that it was followed in the case of Oscar Lopez Rivera. But you probably know the process, and the reasons, but will deny that they are appropriate and will insist, correctly, that they lack the force of law.
But what is clear to anyone willing to see it is that Trump’s use of the pardon power is the promotion of his lawless supporters, not sympathy or forgiveness or chesed.December 29, 2020 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #1933173ujmParticipant
President Trump’s use of pardons and commutations on behalf of numerous Orthodox Jews, whereas previous presidents have refused to, is another manifestation of The Donald’s ahavas Yisroel.December 29, 2020 1:01 pm at 1:01 pm #1933181
Huju -“But what is clear to anyone willing to see it is that Trump’s use of the pardon power is the promotion of his lawless supporters, not sympathy or forgiveness or chesed.”
“Obama commuted the sentence of Oscar Lopez Rivera, an unrepentant FALN terrorist.”
Did Obama have any of those 3 things – when he Commuted the Sentence of Rivera?!?
Remember the guy had No remorse!
Even Billy Boy understood that you Don’t release s/o like that!December 30, 2020 10:01 am at 10:01 am #1933484
To Health: As I said, I am tired and lazy. I am not familiar with all the circumstances surrounding the Oscar Lopez Rivera pardon. You can do the research, if you are interested, and form your own opinion. Actually, you can form your opinion without doing any research or having a reliable set of facts; that seems to be what you usually do.December 30, 2020 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #1933889
Huju -” You can do the research, if you are interested, and form your own opinion.”
I actually did, before I posted here. I’m not Lazy like You!
You’re on the Net – just Google it.
I’ll tell you what I found:
Billy Boy Clinton offered him clemency if he only would say – “I’m sorry.”
Along came your Idol Obama and let him free without even an Apology!
“Obama commuted the sentence of Oscar Lopez Rivera, an unrepentant FALN terrorist. FALN carried out 130 bomb attacks in the U.S.”
“The bombings mained a lot of people & Killed a Few!”December 31, 2020 7:02 am at 7:02 am #1933988
The President is the Chief Executive Officer in the Federal government and has the power to forgive and commute their sentence of anyone who has committed federal crimes. He does not have to get permission from anyone.
The only exception is an impeachable offence, That is the president can’t stop impeachment but once the individual is impeached and removed from office, the President can reappoint him assuming the Senate’s approves it.December 31, 2020 8:11 am at 8:11 am #1934040Reb EliezerParticipant
The pardon can be an impeachable crime when done for personal benefit, according to Harvard Professor Lawrence Tribe.December 31, 2020 9:55 am at 9:55 am #1934049
1. I’m not lazy with a capital L. I’m lazy with a small L. Google the English rules for capitalization.
2. Googling alone is not research. I knew everything you told me when I talked about the pardon of Rivera, because I googled it. He did horrible things and served 36 years in prison for it. I would not have pardoned him, but that is a matter over which reasonable people (of which I am one, but I am, frankly, not sure about you) can differ.
3. I do not have any idols. It is horrible for one Jew to accuse another Jew of idolitry.
4. What is the basis of your calling Rivera “unrepentant”? I do not know whether or not he ever repented for his murders or other felonies.December 31, 2020 9:55 am at 9:55 am #1934050
Folks, there are 63 posts, and only one – by common saychel – answers my question. It’s not a hard question. Please focus.December 31, 2020 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #1934218
Huju -” I’m lazy with a small L.”
From Webster’s with a small L:
“Definition of lazy (Entry 1 of 2)
1a: disinclined to activity or exertion : not energetic or vigorous
The lazy child tried to avoid household chores.
b: encouraging inactivity or indolence
a lazy summer day
2: moving slowly : SLUGGISH
a lazy river”
“4. What is the basis of your calling Rivera “unrepentant”?”
From NBC News 2017 – I googled it:
“Lopez was considered a top leader of the Armed Forces of National Liberation, or FALN, an ultranationalist Puerto Rican group that claimed responsibility for more than 100 bombings at government buildings, department stores, banks and restaurants in New York, Chicago, Washington and Puerto Rico during the 1970s and early 1980s. The FBI classified the Marxist-Leninist group as a terrorist organization.
The most famous bombing was the still-unsolved 1975 explosion that killed four people and wounded 60 at Fraunces Tavern, a landmark restaurant in New York’s financial district.
Lopez, a Vietnam War veteran who moved from Puerto Rico to Chicago as a child, wasn’t convicted of any role in the bombings that killed six people and injured dozens. But those who lost loved ones hold him responsible.
“This guy was convicted of leading the FALN that murdered people,” said Joseph Connor, whose father, Frank, was killed in the Fraunces Tavern attack.
In an interview with The Associated Press, Lopez said he had no regrets about his involvement with the FALN.”
From the Chicago Tribune:
“Oscar Lopez Rivera
Lopez a leader of FALN, the Spanish acronym for the Armed Forces of National Liberation. He was found guilty in U.S. District Court in Chicago in 1981 of weapons, explosives and seditious conspiracy charges, and sentenced to 55 years in prison. He received an additional 15 years in 1988 after he was convicted of plotting to escape from federal prison.
“I’m willing to forgive, but he never once said he was sorry, showed no remorse at all,” said Mary Connor Tully, whose husband, Frank Connor, was killed in the bombing. “He’s an old man and he’ll get to live his life free, and hopefully he can live with the sins he committed, and that he’ll answer one day to a higher power than us for what he did.”
FALN members and their supporters said those put behind bars by the U.S. government were prisoners of war and questioned the country’s jurisdiction to prosecute them.
Lopez had been a federal fugitive for five years when he was caught by police in north suburban Glenview on a traffic violation. Federal authorities had charged him in 1977 in 16 Chicago-area bombings.
At Lopez’s sentencing in 1981, a federal judge called him an “unrehabilitated revolutionary.” Lopez declined to be present at his sentencing or many previous court sessions.”December 31, 2020 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #1934258
Reb Elezer says The pardon can be an impeachable crime when done for personal benefit, according to Harvard Professor Lawrence Tribe.
President Trump has less then 3 weeks left, the new Congress gets sworn in January 3, there is no way they are going to impeach him while he is in office. Once he is out of office they can’t impeach him as he is no longer a Federal Offical.
So unless you believe that Trump is going to be sworn in January 20 you can forget about impeachment. As far Harvard Professor Tribe he is entitled to his opinion but it doesn’t make it true anymore then Attorney Lin Wood’s claiming voter fraud.December 31, 2020 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1934260
Since it’s ok to pardon Lopez what about pardoning Yigal AmirJanuary 1, 2021 8:55 am at 8:55 am #1934418
To Health: Your Google research establishes that Rivera committed many horrible crimes, was unrepentant at the time of his convictions, and was considered unrepentant by the family of one of his victims. That would make his original sentence – I think it was 45 years – reasonable (or too light, in my opinion). I knew all that when I commented on his pardon.
But we do not know how he behaved (or did not behave) in prison or any other reason why he was pardoned, but we do know it came after he got old, and after he served 36 years. That’s why I do not believe that his pardon was inappropriate.
Someone said, facetiously, poor Jeffrey Epstein, if he just hung on (pun intended?) for another year, Trump would have pardoned him. I am not sure Trump would have pardoned Epstein, but neither am sure Trump would not have.January 1, 2021 9:05 am at 9:05 am #1934428commonsaychelParticipant
@Abba S. No such a thing as presidential pardons in Israel, unless your just asking for shock valueJanuary 1, 2021 9:43 am at 9:43 am #1934435🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
huju – to directly respond to your op question, no. Assuming you are implying that you would want to know who a president will pardon before you decide to re-elect them (I can’t understand how else your question can be understood), this would only be relevant to first term presidents, and you already have 4 years of their office to make determination of whether or not to vote for them so why would knowing their pardons before elections matter? A second term pres isn’t up for reelection and a candidate isn’t making pardons.January 1, 2021 11:31 am at 11:31 am #1934470
Huju -“Your Google research establishes that Rivera committed many horrible crimes, was unrepentant at the time of his convictions, and was considered unrepentant by the family of one of his victims. That would make his original sentence – I think it was 45 years – reasonable (or too light, in my opinion). I knew all that when I commented on his pardon.
But we do not know how he behaved (or did not behave) in prison or any other reason why he was pardoned, but we do know it came after he got old, and after he served 36 years. That’s why I do not believe that his pardon was inappropriate”
Way too light!
The Boston Bomber was given the Death sentence.
This was Overturned in Appeals Court.
Now the Prosecutors are deciding whether to appeal to SCOTUS or to let him rot with an actual Life sentence.
From the Net:
“I am sorry for the lives I have taken, for the suffering that I have caused you, for the damage I have done, irreparable damage,” said Tsarnaev. “In case there is any doubt, I am guilty of this attack, along with my brother”
This terrorist apologized and Lopez didn’t.
I’m wondering whether it was PC at the time to be lenient with Purtoricans or/and Chicago is more Lib than Boston?!?
Anyways, if you’re the President, and the Terrorist wasn’t sent to Death or given a Life Sentence, why would you Commute such a Guy?!?
IMHO, if this is the case, what crime is worse?
Obama should have let e/o out of Jail!January 1, 2021 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #1934536
Israeli President has pardoned four member of Shin Bais in the Kav 300 affair and that was before they were even indicted.January 4, 2021 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #1935219
To Health: “Purtoricans”? Reely? I am fluent in only one language, but when I have to include others in stuff I write, I try to be accurate. Is a “Purtorican” a Puritan from a Caribbean island?
I can daven in Hebrew, and with plenty of practice and coaching, I read from the Torah at the time I became a Bar Mitzvah (when dinosaurs ruled the Earth), but beyond that, English is my only current language. I was pretty good at Latin in high school, and I could read the Latin on some of the public monuments and ancient structures when I visited Rome recently. I would be curious to know your first, second and third languages.January 20, 2021 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #1940768☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Since there is considerable uncertainty and disagreement among legal scholars as to whether the Trumpkopf can pardon himself, he will likely resign the morning of January 20th, fly back to Mar a Lago, and while he is in the air, President (for 3 hours) Pence will issue a full and complete pardon of the FORMER President.
That prediction didn’t play out too well.January 20, 2021 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #1940769☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
To answer the OP, yes, I still would have voted for him.
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