May 24, 2017 7:58 am at 7:58 am #1284152
Ugh sorry! I am reading posts from 2014 that say SMS goes into your phone.
Wait there is such a thing as text to voice. I had a friend in school who had all his texts converted to voice because he is losing his sight.
I wonder if there is a way to get any texts go straight to voicemail on your phone?
Maybe there is an *assistive technology* for a regular cell phone (*the word the office for students with different abilities for such types of tech that helped people be more independent) that was created for individuals who needed it before smartphones were invented?May 24, 2017 8:17 am at 8:17 am #1284157
Is it inevitable? Is the battle lost? Will I too have to get a smartphone just to be able to do the basics?
There’s middle ground. Here in the US, they sell “shechted” phones with apps such as browsers and video players removed. I don’t know how easy it is to get these in EY, but in theory, you should be able to get a smartphone which does nothing besides the minimum you need – your company’s security app, and perhaps SMS.
You can even get it as a second device, and only use it when you need it for those, and continue to use your basic phone for talk.
There are a lot of people who do that here in the US.May 24, 2017 8:17 am at 8:17 am #1284156
Twilio!!! Will this work? Or is this for the IT dept?May 24, 2017 8:42 am at 8:42 am #1284168
I just Googled “how to receive sms online” and got a list of results.
DY: True but it sounds like right now WTP doesn’t want that so and there must be a way for her to get what she needs without getting another phone. Maybe we can help her do it. At least help her know all of her options and explore what works best for her.May 24, 2017 8:42 am at 8:42 am #1284166
Anyone know of a personal SMS via Email account provider?
Right now all I found was ones for businesses. But so far it looks like there is a way for people to receive SMSs straight to email.May 24, 2017 8:53 am at 8:53 am #1284172MenoParticipant
There’s a free service called TextNow.
It seems like it’s similar to Google Voice but it might work better in your situation.
I’m not totally sure how it works so you would have to go check it out for yourself.May 24, 2017 9:04 am at 9:04 am #1284180
LB, Meno, et al, you seem to focusing on the SMS issue, which undoubtedly is solvable without a smartphone, but she said her company log in security requires an app, and unless there’s a desktop version of that app (unlikely), or they find a unique solution for her, she’s going to need a smartphone. I’m just saying that it doesn’t have to be a smartphone which does anything more than that one app.May 24, 2017 9:04 am at 9:04 am #1284182
Maybe, though, an Android emulator would do the trick.May 24, 2017 9:28 am at 9:28 am #1284227
There is no way around it, this passcode is for security purposes. They want to make sure only the person who has access can get it.
I suppose some advanced hackers could figure out something, but that is not the point. Most hackers cannotMay 24, 2017 10:15 am at 10:15 am #1284293👑RebYidd23Participant
Generalizations are wrong, and this one in particular is offensive.May 24, 2017 10:27 am at 10:27 am #1284301ubiquitinParticipant
“when there’s a very real issue here, that some of today’s technology posts a real threat to people’s ruchniyus”
that isnt what the OP is discussing. See here:
“Again, I am not worried about content- that is B”H not my taayva. It would not be for the kids to use, and anyway, a filter is easy enough to install. I am fine with using technoogy in a kosher manner, but I am worried about technology taking over. I will use it for work. And then take it with me when I travel so I can have waze, and then use it to take and send pictures, etc etc.”
S/he seems not to like technology becaue it is new. Perhaps this is has spread from the real concern you raise to being opposed to Waze and taking pictures, but this leads to rightfully pointing out that it is hard to understand why Waze should be avoided but not say the coffee room.
Again you raise real concerns, and I get the slippery slope argument. But this is not the argument the OP is making. S/he seems confident that taayva isnt a struggle, will have a filter, etc and while these may not be foolproof and some kids can get around filters etc etc this is not the concern being raised.
The concern seems to be technology in of itself.May 24, 2017 10:37 am at 10:37 am #1284323
No, it sounds like she’s afraid she will waste too much time and mental energy on it, which as far as I’m concerned is a ruchniyus issue.May 24, 2017 10:59 am at 10:59 am #1284347Avram in MDParticipant
If a smartphone per se is the issue (because, for example, it has so much integrated into something so portable), but a laptop is not, then perhaps a Chromebook could be a solution. Chromebooks are increasingly getting access to Android apps, so you could run a “smartphone” app on a laptop device. Also, if there is a Windows phone version of the app, and it is written for the “Universal Windows Platform” (UWP), then it can likely be run on a Windows 10 laptop or desktop as well.May 24, 2017 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1284505
Thanks guys for trying to help me. Yes there are 2 issues- the SMS one, and the passcode one. The SMS one is annoying at times, but not critical. I remember at some point having something online that received the SMSs- somehow I forgot about that, probably because that matter is not so pressing. And I have actually gotten voice mail messages to my landline that were originally texts- don’t know how though. The problem is, though that these websites ask to enter a cell phone number- which in Israel has 1 more digit in the area code than a regular number and always starts with 05- (for that reason I don’t think an american number would work either), so I can’t trick it into sending me a voice mail text. Somehow, the cell phone doesn’t seem to be able to convert the text- unless I just haven’t figured it out. But that problem could be solved by getting a non-kosher dumb phone with texting ability (do they still sell those?) We also did try one of those shechted phones that Daas Yochid mentioned, since my husband was finding it difficult not to be able to get his work emails when he was not sitting in front of the computer. But somehow the SIM didn’t work with the phone, we tried two different companies and then gave up on it. We still have that phone- SIMless. Theoretically, I could try that to work, try other companies that might be compatible with that particular phone.
To clarify, I am not against technology per se. The title did not say that technology is bad. I use technology all the time, as many posters have pointed out (by the way, I think we can all agree that when we say technology we are talking about recent inventions and not things that may have been technological advances 100 or even 30 years ago). My concern is that devices that are not neutral (meaning not only bring us benefit but also can do us harm) are taking over everything, and we no longer seem to have free choice in whether we can use it or not. Let’s compare it to tv- if I feel that it is harmful to me for whatever reason- a time waster, exposure to inappropriate content, then I can choose not to have/watch one. That is my choice. But when it comes to smart phones, I am losing the freedom to make that same choice, and that is what I meant that the battle is lost.May 24, 2017 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #1284531DovidBTParticipant
“No, it sounds like she’s afraid she will waste too much time and mental energy on it, which as far as I’m concerned is a ruchniyus issue.”
One possible solution is to take a vow, in the presence of witnesses, that you will use the smartphone only for strictly work-required activity.May 24, 2017 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #1284547
Even if this specific battle is lost (which i dont think it is yet) theres much more to the war that youre still winning. Just the full picture facts, dont like the gloom and doom of the vibes man.May 24, 2017 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #1284550
Oh and dont forget that ur not alone in this fight, a common feeling among the ones holding off while most people are giving in. chazak.May 24, 2017 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #1284579
technology has become a euphamism for anything and everything that provides access to the world that is anti torah and yiras shamayim. that world may exist somewhere in cyberspace or down the block. sadly, it causes people to think that making sure people dont have smartphones, and doing everything possible to make sure they dont is the be all and end all to the problem. for $2.75 one can access the technology known as the nyc subway system, ride for 30 minutes and expose themselves to the very same shmutz.May 24, 2017 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #1284603DovidBTParticipant
“for $2.75 one can access the technology known as the nyc subway system, ride for 30 minutes and expose themselves to the very same shmutz.”
You can’t carry the NYC subway system in your pocket where you can access it 24 hours a day.May 24, 2017 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #1284608
I just got an inspiration.. some of the possible solutions just clicked, and I think I might have the solution already at hand. A while back, we got a Samsubg Igalaxy camera for a present. It happens to be a great camera, and I use it as a camera and ignore all the other myriad things it can do (it has internet connectivity and some apps on it..I have no idea what). Basically, it sits in its box until one of the grandmothers reminds me that they have not seen pictures of the kids lately. It can hook itself up to our home wifi, but once out of the home it is unconnected and basically, just a camera. Maybe I can have IT download the app on that? Then I can use it at home when I am working. Since this particular device poses no threat to me as it is (why would i want to use this small screen when I have a comfortable laptop?), I won’t be sacrificing anything!May 24, 2017 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #1284661☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
Over time, its possible that a younger generation of rabbonim may “move the goalposts” as to what is acceptable based on having a better understanding of how technology works rather than redefining Halacha.
Did no one think a response to that was in order?May 24, 2017 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #1285037
WinnieThePooh: Go for it! Genius idea! And def worth finding out! People can do so much with their Xboxes and whatnots; surely your camera has some tricks up its sleeves. 🙂
Excellent job of thinking outside the box to find your solution!!!
B’Hatzlacha, and if not this then you’re on the way either way 🙂May 25, 2017 2:26 pm at 2:26 pm #1285662
bhMay 25, 2017 2:46 pm at 2:46 pm #1285671
“You can’t carry the NYC subway system in your pocket where you can access it 24 hours a day.”
No need to shlep it around with you, it is right there waiting for you though. 24×7.May 25, 2017 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1285673
“(why would i want to use this small screen when I have a comfortable laptop?),”
Let me play devils advocate (literally). This “small screen” is easier to use unobtrusively than a larger laptop and you know, “just this once” let me see what else this thing can do.May 25, 2017 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #1285680
Let me play devils advocate (literally). This “small screen” is easier to use unobtrusively than a larger laptop and you know, “just this once” let me see what else this thing can do.
It’s also easier to use something which is already in your pocket than to take the subway to someplace you shouldn’t be going.May 25, 2017 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #1285676
No need to shlep it around with you, it is right there waiting for you though. 24×7.
Need? What does need have to do with it?May 25, 2017 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #1285678
“You can’t carry the NYC subway system in your pocket where you can access it 24 hours a day.”
This proves the point I was making. A wonderful sound bite, that ignores the real problem.May 25, 2017 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #1285690
the real problem
“The” real problem? Is there only one real problem?May 25, 2017 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #1285694
Actually I hate using the screen on my smartphone. I dont even like typing on it. I can type like 100 WPM on keyboard, but I type like 2 WPM on a phoneMay 25, 2017 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #1285713
The subways bad but its not nearly as bad yet. Even the laws prove that.May 26, 2017 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #1286322lakewhutParticipant
Cancel your con ed account and ride a horseMay 26, 2017 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #1286375
Does Israel have laws to protect the right to observe your religion at work?
Does WTP’s employer have an obligation to provide a reasonable accommodation for her?May 26, 2017 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1286387chabadgalParticipant
heres an idea. get a free phone for texting with a prepaid plan. get a really basic one. and youll have that for these situations, and wont use it fro anything else.May 27, 2017 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1286401
Great idea chabadgal 🙂
So from what I understand, WTP still needs a solution for getting the app for workMay 27, 2017 10:20 pm at 10:20 pm #1286394
Unlike the US, there is no written constitution in Israel. Israel’s government and laws are based on the British system which has an implied constitution.
And even in the US there are limits to how far religious freedom goes. If a certain job responsibility requires you to go against your religion, it still might be allowed. or example if you had a job where you had to taste pork, you cant claim religious freedomMay 28, 2017 12:17 am at 12:17 am #1286432WolfishMusingsParticipant
If a certain job responsibility requires you to go against your religion, it still might be allowed. or example if you had a job where you had to taste pork, you cant claim religious freedom
A better example would be a chef in a high-class restaurant where you would be expected to cook meat/milk together.
The WolfMay 28, 2017 12:17 am at 12:17 am #1286430
zahavasdad: Thanks so much for your clarification!
Wow. I had no clue that Israel’s government and laws are modeled after the British system. That makes sense, given that it was under the British Mandate. On top of that, I’ve never heard of this implied British constitution.
Just Googled it and something about the EHRC in 2006 and Equality Act.
Wait what… What’s the difference between a written vs. implied constitution? So in Britain, companies are required to respect religious freedom and provide some reasonable accommodations (to a limit), but how that plays out when an employer is in violation of one’s religious freedom is different in the UK vs US because in the US the written law is something that one can interpret and argue in accordance to said violation — while in the UK, no written law means that employers are able to parse their obligations to their employees quite loosely?
Thank youMay 28, 2017 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1286459
LB, I am not sure if this is a theoretical discussion or you are actually suggesting it for my case, but I think in my case, it would be very difficult to say that having a smart phone goes against my religious beliefs since so many frum people have one (even though the reasons I don’t want one stem from my religious beliefs)! Also, no one is forcing me to work from home, not everyone has these tokens- I have one because working from home accommodates my needs as a working mother, and my workplace requires a long commute. The token is a matter of convenience, which for me is important because of my specific needs, but from work’s point of view, it’s not mandatory, I can work at work.May 28, 2017 8:36 am at 8:36 am #1286505ChaverParticipant
You can download on your computer Bluestacks which allows you to run on your computer Android apps. I think it also works with apps that need a phone number. you can probably use you kosher number.May 28, 2017 9:32 am at 9:32 am #1286475
Hi WTP, thanks for answering! Yes I meant for you, but the part about not having to work from home makes sense.
As for whether you “deserve” to request such a thing even though other frum Jews have one doesn’t make a difference because it’s about *your* religious beliefs and practice. At least in the US, you have a right to be makpid. While what someone else [another religious Jew] does may help your case, technically that would not make a difference.
Though maybe CTLAWYER would be a better voice here, since I don’t know how this could play out IRL.
Still think of a BT who comes into work and says he/she cannot work on weekends. I’ve said that to my boss but I don’t necessarily look the part of a Shomer Shabbos Jew. I have just as much of a right as another Jew. I’m sure they’ve had other Jews work for them on Shabbat. Yet that doesn’t mean that my case is any less credible.
Your reasons are founded in Torah so and it’s a religious value if yours to guard your neshama by guarding away from having to purchase and/or rely on a smartphone.
Now the whole working from home thing adds another dimension, so I can see how that comes into play now too. Hmmm I don’t what to say but thank you for the heads up and sending you blessings for it to be revealed good 💖May 28, 2017 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #1286837
Thanks LB, I think though that at least of the solutions mentioned here could work-either I can use my “smart” camera, or as was suggested, a stripped down kosher smart phone (has apps but no browser), or maybe what chaver suggested, running the app from a regular laptop. I still have some time, I will have to speak more with the IT people and figure out what works best. For the SMS issue, seems that there are several possibilities. Thanks all, for understanding my dilemma and for all those who have offered solutions. And for those who feel like I do, keep strong- the responses on this thread here are proof that one can stick to ones convictions, with a little creativity and a lot of chizuk from others!May 29, 2017 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #1287948☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
(I don’t think freedom of religion could be argued as relevant here.)
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