Lubavitch – Mitzvah Tantz?

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  • This topic has 27 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 10 months ago by ujm.
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  • #2073587
    The Frumguy
    Participant

    Does someone in the Coffee Room (preferably a Lubavitcher Chossid) know whether Lubavitchers perform a Mitzvah Tantz at a Chasunah?

    #2073608
    Lubavitcher
    Participant

    No we dint do mitzvah Tantz because its not modest.

    #2073610
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Lipa Shmeltzer sang Aishes Chayil at my son’s wedding as a mitzva tantz which is available on youtube when googling lipa macarena.

    #2073614
    ujm
    Participant

    Are you asking about currently or regarding prewar Lubavitch?

    #2073629

    with the rebbe?

    #2073635
    BB in BP
    Participant

    I was told by a Lubavitcher Chossid that they do not have a MItzva Tantz.

    #2073661
    VHere Rebbe
    Participant

    It was not the minhag of Lubavitcher Chassidim to do. See below
    No “Mitzvah Dance”

    To an individual who asked the Rebbe why the Chabad custom is not to have a “Mitzvah Tantz,” the Rebbe responded:

    1) Although we must understand the reason for this [i.e., for not engaging in this dance,] it does not change the fact [that we don’t do so].

    2) … He who observes what has actually transpired in our days and during many, many weddings [as a result of “Mitzvah Dances”] understands the reason [it is not done in Chabad circles].

    (Binyan Adei Ad, p. 44)

    #2073903
    The Frumguy
    Participant

    I didn’t know Lipa was Lubavitch…

    #2073917
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    From the above posters we see that Lipa is not Lubavich.

    #2073958
    ujm
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer, what is a “macarena” dance?

    #2073963
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Look at the above reference to see.

    #2073964
    chasid
    Participant

    I looked into this at one point, and from what I understand Chabad has never had the Mitzvah Tantz and this is not a recent thing of the recent generation.

    #2073980
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Lubavitcher, so satmar, belz, ger, spinka, sqver, and everyone else are immodest?

    Maybe try “we don’t hold it’s tznius” instead of dismissing half of klal yisroel as immodest. Might be a good idea to take a look at the state of tznius in crown heights before accusing others of immodesty.

    Actually, don’t take a look, it would be assur.

    #2074123
    TS Baum
    Participant

    @AviraDeArah
    Maybe take a look at the tens of thousands of baalei teshuvah who ARE tznius who werent before, brought back to Yiddishkeit by WHOM???
    Lubavitch. Focus on the positive, don’t be such a pessimist.

    Plus, It’s actually less in crown heights than other places. In boro park, if somebody dresses below what’s accepted, then they chase them out, and they do way worse things. On crown heights, they don’t use such methods, rather they hold dear the last connections to yiddishkeit they have left and try using that to slowly but surely get them back on the derech. It is actaully much more useffull and it works. But it doesn’t take a day. Or a week. It could take a while.

    And don’t make lubavitcher’s answer for the other chassidisim, they should answer why they do things that aren’t so modest.

    #2074125
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The rabbonim usually use a long gartel far from touching the kalla, so what is the question about tznius?

    #2074134
    Questionable
    Participant

    The Rebbes father Danced mitzvah tantz from afar with his wife.

    #2074247
    Leiby Wasser
    Participant

    The tznius issue (to me) seems to be the two (or more) extended families sitting in close proximity for long hours without any mechitza. I don’t know why this is necessary; can’t it be done with men on one side of the mechitza, women on the other side, and the kallah coming up close to the mechitza when people are called up to dance before her? Re not having the minhag, why is that something that needs a reason? If I don’t have the minhag, then it’s not my minhag, I don’t have to farenfer why I don’t do it!

    #2074304
    ujm
    Participant

    And Keitzad Merakdim, when they bring the Kallah into the men’s section (and in the not so Frum circles dozens of other women slip into the men’s section with the Kallah) is more Tzniusdik??

    #2074296
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    TS, I wasn’t saying you should answer for other chasidim. I’m saying that it’s typical myopia where whatever chabad says is the only way things are – if chabad holds something isn’t tznius, then it’s not tznius, regardless of how many other groups of legitimate jews do it (or is no one else legitimate?….)

    It would be like me telling a sefardi that I don’t warm up food on hotplates on shabbos because it’s chilul shabbos, while he does and is a mechalel shabbos. No – the way I tell him is that Ashkenazim hold that we’re not allowed to heat up food this way, because we hold that it’s nesinah lechatchila, but we respect other minhagim which permit it.

    To be clear, satmar has higher standards of tznius in dress than chabad by a wide margin. They also separate genders far more fastidiously, and keep shmiras aynayim better because they don’t go out to the outside world.

    In my own experiences, there are certain trends that go on in crown heights which are acceptable, and not treated with revulsion as they would be elsewhere. The details of this aren’t tznius to post online, but hamyavin yovin.

    The amount of violations would be less if there were clear community guidelines as there are in boro park and Williamsburg (moreso in the latter). Every community has problems, but at some point, if not checked, they will spread, and in an effort to be mekarev people with little yiras shomayim, you will cause a community wide abandonment of tznius and other mitzvos.

    #2074346
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    The chayos (Arabs) and the satan don’t care as much if one sect of yiddishkeit is more modest than the other, what they really love is that there’s fights about it

    #2074466
    Leiby Wasser
    Participant

    ujm
    Though I have never witnessed the Keitzad Merakdim practice that you describe, I accept that it happens if you say so. But I am sure no one elevates it to the status of a holy minhag, and demands to know why others don’t do it.

    #2074498
    chasid
    Participant

    It is not because of tznius per se, it is because of chupas nidah. In lubavitch the chason and kallah don’t touch at all in public throughout the wedding, even after the chuppah, this is also because of chupas nidah.

    This does not imply anything wrong with those who do, but are we not allowed to have our own minhagim and chumras?

    #2074511
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    My rebbi, the Matersdorfer Rav ztz’l at my wedding, which would have been 50 years on lag baomer, did not allow the kallah to come to the men rather I was going back and forth between the men and women. There were two tables. The main table by the women and the smaller table by the men.

    #2074525
    user176
    Participant

    Yes, bringing the kalla to the men’s section is more seniut. What is the idea behind this mitzva dance?

    #2074583
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    At Keitzad Merakdim it does say to dance with her or even in front of her but to say not to her but in front of her.

    #2074638
    ujm
    Participant

    Leiby Wasser: You never saw a contingent of women come from the women’s section into the men’s section with the Kallah for Keitzad Merakdim?

    And have you, ever, heard anyone insist everyone must have a Mitzvah Tantz, even if it was never their Minhag?

    #2074737
    Milhouse
    Participant

    UJM, if he is a Lubavicher he may indeed never have seen it. It’s unheard of in Lubavitch.

    #2074757
    ujm
    Participant

    Millhouse: But is it unheard of for a Lubavitcher to attend a non-Lubavitch chasuna? (i.e. I’m not referring specifically to Lubavitch.)

    By the way, in Lubavitch the Kallah doesn’t go to the men’s section for Keitzad Merakdim?

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