July 5, 2011 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #791210whatrutalkingabtMember
“Ah, so that’s why that other couple I set up got divorced… because I didn’t want to accept a gift from them.”
Its one thing if you didnt *accept* the gift that they offered you. Its quite another thing if they dont offer anything at all.
There are many very freaky stories where the shadchan was unhappy with how they were paid (either very little or not at all) and the couple had difficulties until the debt was paid. This is really serious business
“make my shidduch and I promise to pay you”
That was the best line on this whole threadJuly 5, 2011 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #791211be goodParticipant
Wow, quite a discussion.
Here are my two cents:
1) For those of you who aren’t sure of the ‘going rate’. Unless you are giving a gift, the ‘going rate’ is anywhere upwards of $1000 (from each side I think, but I could be wrong) as far as I know. This is if there was no specific amount stipulated beforehand. This is for most circles in NY/Europe/Israel as far as I know (feel free to post other amounts that are the ‘going rates in other places/circles).
2) I have(unfortunately) met many many shadchanim over the course of my dating career- it is very very rare for a shadchan to stipulate what his/her fees are the first time they meet you. It is general knowledge that a shadchan is recognized for their work thru a gift or payment and it is assumed that the shadchan will be paid if there is a successful shidduch.
3) As far as I know, there is no certificate, degree or license required in order to redd a shidduch. So (in my opinion) the discussion as to whether a shadchan only earns shadchanus if he/she is ‘professional’ is, to my mind, mute. Anyone can suggest a shidduch and anyone who does see a shidduch through to it’s successfull conclusion, therefore deserves shadchanus (assuming that he/she is the only shadchan that was involved and both sides recognize that).
4)The discussion about a shadchan ‘doing it for the money’ versus ‘doing it for the mitsva’ frankly, turned my stomach. Just because a shadchan wants to be recognized for his/her efforts does not mean that the effort expended was not L’shem Shomayim. Shadchanim (the ones that do get paid) ‘earn’ way way less than they should, judging by the amount of time and effort that they invest in each and every shidduch that they redd. Every bit of effort that a shadchan does is out of the goodness of their hearts, if they are lucky and HaShem wills, they may become a Shaliach and hopefully earn something material from it ($$). Every shadchan is happy for the people that he/she matched- just because they expect payment, doesn’t mean that they are in any way not happy for the people that they matched. Again, they just deserve to be recognized and paid and not treated like shnorrers.
Apologies for that long ramble 😉
As far as practical advice- why doesn’t OfCourse turn to the Mechutanim (Chosson’s side)? they might be a bit more menshlich then the Kalla’s mother.
Failing that, I would find a mutual friend/ relative ( I think this idea was mentioned above) who can mention to either the Chassan/Kalla or to one or both sets of parents something along the lines of ‘BTW, I met so-n-so (the shadchan) the other day, and I’ve a feeling that he hasn’t been paid… I just thought you would want to know, bc I know this can bring really bad mazal etc, you should really check if he was paid…’
O and I’ll second that great line posted by adorable: ‘Make my shidduch and I promise to pay you!’ 🙂July 5, 2011 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #791212
what- thank you! I think you are the only one who even noticed that line. LOLJuly 5, 2011 11:21 pm at 11:21 pm #791213
be good, thanks a mil for your sensitivity in this matter! I agree with everything you said!
Update: a middle person spoke to them and this middle person got back to me and said it was “handled”. That was over a week ago, and I havent heard about it yet.
I cant approach Chasan’s parents, theyre of out of towny, Modern Orthodox, Baal Teshuva background. They’re prob not familiar with Shadchanus, and I dont want to alienate them.
ador, I dont know who you are…. and being that I suspect youre female, I might as well tell you that I have a serious shortage of guys, both normal and not and degrees in between. ; (July 6, 2011 2:00 am at 2:00 am #791214DepotMember
Shortage of guys? Can I interest you with some clones?July 6, 2011 3:53 am at 3:53 am #791215
I might as well tell you that I have a serious shortage of guys
How could that be? There are 104-107 males for every 100 females! 😉July 6, 2011 5:34 pm at 5:34 pm #791216Menachem MelamedParticipant
I think that you should be happy that you had the opportunity to do a chesed. If you are overly interested in the money, you may lose most of the mitzva. Certainly, if you did a good job for them they should pay you, but sometimes people can’t afford to, are stingy, or perhaps they might even have complaints against the shadchan. (Legitimate complaints against shadchanim are not a rarity.) If you are in it l’shaim shamayim, you shouldn’t let it upset you.July 6, 2011 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #791217
If you are in it l’shaim shamayim, you shouldn’t let it upset you.
Would you say the same thing to a rebbe who didn’t get paid?July 6, 2011 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #791218
MM, perhaps they might even have complaints against the shadchan
No complaints whatsoever! They’re ecstatic with the Shidduch and until after the wedding, when I mentioned Shadchanus, we were the best of friends!July 6, 2011 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm #791219
OfCourse- Thank you for thinking bout me but the right one will come around i’m not nervous for even one second. I’m enjoying every second of my single life right now.July 6, 2011 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #791220whatrutalkingabtMember
“I’m enjoying every second of my single life right now.”
Thats the right attitude! Take advantage of the time now and iyh you’ll find your zivug bkarov!July 6, 2011 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #791221
Thank you so much. I just had a discussion with someone about if its possible to be completely happy and single. I dont think a person can ever feel really “whole” without a spouse- that is the way Hashem made the world- we are always looking for our other half. On the other hand, you can enjoy your singlehood until Mr. perfect comes along (just joking dont burn me for saying that, bomb)July 6, 2011 7:31 pm at 7:31 pm #791222minyan galMember
The phrase “professional shadchan) has often been used in this thread. Is there a special training course to become a shadchan and if not, does a person just decide that is what they wish to do? It seems to me that a background in psychology or social work or some type of counselling would be advantageous to someone in this field of work.July 6, 2011 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #791223Menachem MelamedParticipant
To Daas Yochid:
Yes, I would. I have taught people without getting paid. Even though a rebbe who teaches for a living needs to get paid – those people who have other jobs often learn with people, teach bar mitzva lessons, and do other mitzvos – without necessarily being paid. Numerous people in our communities do chasadim without expecting monetary rewards. I don’t mean to say that a shadchan should not get paid, but I would hope shadchanim appreciate the great mitzva that they are doing. The reward for the mitzva is far greater than any sum of money people might give in appreciation. If a shadchan is overly focused on the money, they might forfeit a large part of the mitzva.July 7, 2011 1:25 am at 1:25 am #791224nygalMember
i think u shld be “Dan lecaf zechus” mabey the family is in a realy tight financial situation and cant afford even something simple and are waiting for thier situation to get better for them to give you a thank you gift, dont worry even if they dont give you a gift hashem will reward you with the sechar you deserve.July 17, 2011 2:19 am at 2:19 am #791225
I got a check through a middle person.July 17, 2011 2:56 am at 2:56 am #791226
Thanks for the update. Decent amount?July 17, 2011 3:01 am at 3:01 am #791227oomisParticipant
Mazel tovJuly 17, 2011 3:08 am at 3:08 am #791228always hereParticipant
… hmm, no exclamation points or ‘smiley’ tho’July 17, 2011 3:28 am at 3:28 am #791229hanabMember
I once worked very hard getting a shidduch off the ground. It was a tricky situation so I initially spoke to a close relative, instead of the parents. Somehow others got involved, so, when I never got any acknowledgement from the parents, I assumed they just never knew about my involvement.
Well, after a few years that no child was born to the couple, I said to my spouse “I am hereby mochel the shadchanus belev sholem”. Not that I ever had a hakpada, but, in case my not being mochel them out loud was a problem, I wanted to clear it up.
Of course, you can guess the happy ending.
So this is not a bubbeh maaseh, but a first-hand account, from my side, anyhow.
OP, I am glad you got paid, I hope it was adequate! Just in case, please say so!July 17, 2011 4:05 am at 4:05 am #791230DroidMember
hanab – Did you ever let anyone other than your wife know that you verbalized your mechilla?July 17, 2011 4:20 am at 4:20 am #791231mom of a fewMember
of course, we are soooo happy for you.July 17, 2011 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #791232hanabMember
Droid, what for? Evidently verbalizing the forgiveness is sufficient, I believe we learn it from the Asarah Harugei Malchus who said they were a kaparah for mechiras Yosef, since, although Yosef told the brothers not to worry, he never verbalized his forgiveness.July 18, 2011 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #791233
ofcourse- Its about time. Hope it was a nice amount.July 18, 2011 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #791234gavra_at_workParticipant
🙂July 18, 2011 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #791235minyan galMember
adorable: I missed it (until just now) when you said “I dont think a person can ever feel really “whole” without a spouse- that is the way Hashem made the world- we are always looking for our other half”
It all depends on the stage of life that you are at and your life story. I am divorced in my 60’s and was married for almost 40 years. I can tell you that I am more “whole” now than I was during my entire marriage. The only wonderful benefit of my marriage was my most amazing daughter (and her very fine and loving husband and, of course, my 2 grandsons). Right now, I am happier than I have ever been in my adult life. I don’t even know if I would ever consider marriage again. He would have to be a very, very special person. Occasionally I think that it would be nice to have a companion to attend functions and concerts with, but I have plenty of girlfriends to go to these things with. I know that you are much younger than I and of course, your life’s goals at this stage, are far different. If you want to have a family, then of course,you will want a marriage. But, remember that a person can definitely be whole – at any age – without a spouse. And never, ever, sell yourself short and settle for someone, just because you want a family. You deserve better than that and in fact, you owe it to yourself to find someone who respects you and your goals, just as you will do the same for him.July 28, 2011 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #791236IUseBrainsParticipant
I would just like to let u know, that I made a shidduch, and when I hadn’t recieved payment, I just put a check in the mail for my daughters’ shadchan.
On the very same day, I was notified about a payment!
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