Mashgiach

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  • #601512
    computer777
    Member

    Are there requirements to being a mashgiach besides knowing kashrus laws? Does anything officially disqualify a man from being a mashgiach? For example, a person can be disqualified as an eid.

    #842503
    apushatayid
    Participant

    Isnt a mashgiach an eid?

    #842504
    aries2756
    Participant

    That all depends on the Vaad you work for.

    #842505
    A Heimishe Mom
    Participant

    The standards of the orginization you are working for will dictate the necessary qualifications. But I do find it odd when a hashgacha allows the owner to be his own mashgiach.

    #842506
    adams
    Participant

    For a restaurant the Mashgiach doesn’t have to know anything but how the Hashgacha tells him/her how to check for bugs, and the protocol of lighting the stoves. For a manufacturing place I believe they have to know much more.

    The owners of Pizza stores usually suffice, I am not aware of a Mashgiach for Milchigs, but I could be wrong.

    Which is just as worrysome bec. prices are also higher for Kosher cheese and fishes, and the incentive to cheat is there.

    In this case, if it is a meat place, and they let the owner be the Mashgiach, this is very rare.

    #842507
    dash™
    Participant

    Isnt a mashgiach an eid?

    The Mashgiach’s role is to ensure that the establishment is following protocal and inform the Rav Hamachshir of any problems. The decision of whether an establishment is certified is made by the Rav Hamachshir and not by the Mashgiach.

    #842508
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Adams is right (coming from a mashgiach)

    You have to know how to check for bugs and what they look like

    #842509
    computer777
    Member

    Thanks all for responding. I wasn’t actually asking about what different establishments do. Rather what the halacha requires regarding who is trustworthy enough to be a mashgiach. So what I hear is as long as a person knows the laws, he is trusted. Even if nobody knows that he’s really a morally corrupt person.

    #842510
    adams
    Participant

    I believe the person has to be Shomer Shabbos Yid. If the Mashgiach is Chas VeSholom seen violating Shabbos, he would likely not be allowed to be a Mashgiach.

    You have to define what you mean by morally corrupt. There may be an issue of Neemanus.He may not be a viable person because the Mashgiach has to enforce Kashrus, for example in a meat place, usually there is a plate and pan for fish only, not for sale but for the staff, if the Mashgiach sees them cooking the fish in the meat oil he has to enforce that the oil gets changed.

    There is also alot of ‘look the other way ‘ opportunities because

    in a very bad economy there is much competition for these jobs witch can present a possible conflict of interest.

    So someone like you describe may not be best but it depends I have seen many people in food industry personally OTD but take the Kashrus very seriously. So this man as well.

    It depends i guess is he publicly known as a criminal or not.

    #842511
    ED IT OR
    Participant

    so is the pay $75000 or $50000?

    the more a mashgiach gets paid the less I trust em,

    also it makes a big difference if the mashgiach gets paid by the store or by the hechsher.

    #842512

    A mashgiach is definitely an eid.

    #842513
    A Heimishe Mom
    Participant

    Unfortunately it seems that many folks here are a bit deluded about what being a Mashgiach in a food establishment entails. And a pizza shop is just as much liable for trouble. A Mashgiach must check every order and delivery as it comes into the store to make sure that a) only accepted items are ordered and that b) only those items are delivered. In a fleishig shop the meat needs to be checked, but cheese in a milchig place needs to be watched as well. Bugs, eggs, ovens, and employee use of equipment are only some of the jobs that they do.

    The question of who pays the mashgiach is a problem of “eidus” in terms of shoichad which can pose a conflict of interest. If you have a question about a particulat hechsher or establishment, call the main office of that hechsher. Any skirting the of issue will indicate a problem.

    #842514
    computer777
    Member

    I have seen many people in food industry personally OTD but take the Kashrus very seriously

    I think this is terrible.

    I recall a story of a frum man who lived maybe in Texas. Because he didn’t have a place to buy kosher food he ate only almonds bought from a local farmer. He did this for years until one day the farmer died. And his son took over. But the almonds from his son tasted differently so he asked him why it tastes different. The son answered that his farther used to fry the almonds in pig fat, but he’s do lazy to do that.

    Obviously I don’t know for sure this story is true. But I wonder how we are different. We delude ourselves into thinking that a hechscher means it’s kosher. A person who shows a lack of yiras shamayim in one area should be disqualified. How can we possibly trust such a person? I’m not just asking this question. I recently heard of activities of a mashgiach which shows clearly lacks yiras shamayim. And the one who gives the hechsher knows this. Is it possible for a person to be trusted in kashrus even if the aveiros he does isn’t related to kashrus?

    #842515
    WIY
    Member

    Is it possible for a person to be trusted in kashruseven ifthe aveiros he does isn’t related to kashrus?

    Not sure the Halacha about this but common sense would say that such a person can’t be trusted. Im sure it would depend which aveiros as well. Because if you mean Loshon Hora, that is something almost everyone struggles with on a regular basis. So Im sure it really depends which aveiros and if he does them befarhesya.

    #842516
    Feif Un
    Participant

    I firmly declare

    The meat I prepare

    Is Kosher, even Glatt

    But that’s not enough

    The market is tough

    When others say it’s not

    So I have to pay

    A Rabbi to say

    That I’m not telling lies

    And he has the clout

    To get the word out

    Yes, he has holy eyes

    Mashgiach, Mashgiach, Mashgiach

    He’s my chief supervisor

    Mashgiach, Mashgiach, Mashgiach

    He is no compromiser

    Mashgiach, Mashgiach, Mashgiach

    I hope he says I am kosher

    Mashgiach, Mashgiach, Mashgiach

    I hope he doesn’t say no, sir

    #842517
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “For a restaurant the Mashgiach doesn’t have to know anything”

    He has to know more than bugs and oven lighting protocols. He doesnt even need to know bugs if they demand the establishment buys pre-checked with a hechsher they like and all he must know is, how to read the name on a label. Mashgichim should be aware of what things that might be prepared look like. I will never forget the time I came into a kitchen to relieve the AM mashgiach and something was sizzling on a grill. I was told by my fellow mashgiach “they are grilling a bunch of burgers”. Because the burgers looked kid of funny I took a closer look. They were not burkers. The chef (a mechallel shabbos) was kashering livers on the broiler! To the credit of the Rav Hamachshir of the establishment, this fellow was promptly let go from his position until he was able to pass a very thorough test administered by the kashrus agency.

    #842518
    WIY
    Member

    Feif Un

    Cute poem but Mashgichim are very necessary.

    #842519
    Sam2
    Participant

    Technically, a Frum owner can be a Mashgiach for anything but the Minhag is not to let them. A Masshgiach is a type of Eid, but there are separate rules for that type of Eidus. It could be that someone who is Passul L’eidus is Kasher for this (there are a lot of different opinions and it depends on why he is Passul L’eidus). Each Va’ad will have to Pasken who they let be Mashgichim and who they don’t.

    #842520
    Feif Un
    Participant

    WIY: I didn’t make it up. It’s from Rechnitzer Rejects. If you couldn’t figure it out, it goes to the tune of MBD’s Mashiach, Mashiach, Mashiach.

    #842521
    nitpicker
    Participant

    re: eating only almonds.

    wow, this story seems to have taken a beating.

    earlier version of story is someone who was afraid to eat matzoh for fear it had become chometz. he only ate walnuts on pesach.

    eventualy it was dicovered that the walnuts he ate had been

    cooked in lard.

    I believe the story appears in some musar seforim, but I can’t cite a source.

    #842522
    computer777
    Member

    nitpicker: you are correct. I said the story wrong.

    WIY: Obviously I’m not referring to LH. I’m referring to much more serious aveiros.

    #842523
    hello99
    Participant

    I heard a Shiur from Rav Schachter where he said that a Mashgiach technically only loses his ne’emanus if he violates the Halachos of Kashrus or is a Mumar l’Kol HaTorah (i.e. Mechalel Shabbos). If he is guilty of other Avairos, no matter how severe, he is not automatically disqualified. Thank being said, you would not necessarily want him as your Mashgiach.

    BTW, a shochet working for one of the lessreputablee hechsherim once told me thelocationn he worked had 7 shochtim who were Shomer Shabbos and 6 who weren’t. the Rav HaMachshir said, “Better to eat Neveilos than Treifos”

    #842524
    adams
    Participant

    I saw a question of a person who had been a Shochet in Poland, and moved to AMerica early 1900’s, and had to work on Shabbos.

    But he didn’t trust the Kashrus in those days, so he asked a Shaila, is his Schita more trustworthy.

    Not sure what the answer. I read this somewhere.

    Alot of people would be amazed at the low level of some of the Mashgichim. I have seen some who dont’ even wash the lettuce you are served, let alone check for bugs.

    Mashgichim should be payed more and there names should be listed

    so people would know who they are trusting.

    In addition to the bug checking they have to be vigilant at all times because you never know when a violation will occur.

    #842525
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “Does anything officially disqualify a man from being a mashgiach?”

    He is a non jew.

    #842526
    apushatayid
    Participant

    “In addition to the bug checking they have to be vigilant at all times”

    Often the 2 are mutually exclusive. If the mashgiach properly washes and checks the vegetables being used, unless he has 4 sets of eyes, things WILL go on behind his back. This is why many hechsherim require prechecked vegetables, to avoid this.

    #842527

    apushatayid-

    Just out of curiosity – isn’t that not considered Bishul Akum? I thought only if the food was cooked by an actual non-Jew is it considered Bishul Akum.

    #842528
    apushatayid
    Participant

    I was being facetious.

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