October 22, 2009 4:53 am at 4:53 am #590642
I really want to know, is it really neccesary to always take medicines and antibiotics, when you get sick, because it seems to be that even with a simple cold we take prescribed medicines, is it bad and unhealthy , or do we really need it?October 22, 2009 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #664076haifagirlParticipant
It also helps if you know the doctor’s philosphy. I had a doctor who was a phramacist before she became a physician. She was always quick to prescribe drugs. Other doctors are not necessarily like that. In general, I have found that DOs are less likely to prescribe drugs than MDs. But that could just be my experience.October 22, 2009 1:27 pm at 1:27 pm #664077
What Starwolf has posted is very true. Many a viral illness has an accompanying bacterial infection. More than that, the viral one may significantly lower the body’s defenses, allowing an opportunistic bacterial infection to set in. Using common cold as an example – with stuffed nasal passages there is no adequite flushing of the sinuses and bacteria that always lives there starts to proliferate. Then, using post-nasal drip as a vehicle, it easily seeds the bronchial tree and can give someone a nasty case of bronchitis. THIS is why many physicians, especially if their patient has a history of such progressions, or of many bacterial bronchial and pulmonary infections, will prescribe AB therapy at once.
Others, unfortunately, are afraid to be sued if the illness deteriorates into a secondary infection, or are reluctant to lose a patient who clamors for antibiotics, and therefore give them right away, knowing that they are not needed. This has led to multiple-drug resistance in bacteria, along with not completing the required course of treatment once started.
As Starwolf pointed out, if your physician knows you well, he/she will make better choices in your regard. Obviously, personal experience of a given physician plays a major role. If doing something for some 30 years worked better than other means, it is likely to be adhered to. This tendency of any particular care provider can be found out by the word of mouth from the doctor’s other patients.October 22, 2009 1:52 pm at 1:52 pm #664078
it sounds logical starwolf and sammygol but,
here in mexico the pharmacist allow you to buy any antibiotics without a doctors prescription, thats why people are always automedicating themselves isint that a bit of a problem? even if it is hust a simple cold or throat infection.October 22, 2009 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #664079
Its a HUGE problem, not just a bit. Besides, Antibiotics aren’t all equal, as each has its spectrum of efficacy and specific bacteria that it either kills or inhibits. Take the very large class of cephalosporins, for example. There are 5 generations of them, with the bugs succeptible to them moving from Gram positive to Gram negative with each succeeding generation, for the most part. Also, resistance to these drugs vary with bacterial families. Unless one is trained to A. correctly diagnose the illness, B. correctly identify the probable pathogen causing such, and C. correctly choose which AB is effective against this pathogen in this particular locale (since drug resistance varies with geography due to incomplete spread, thankfully), one is groping in the dark, even if the pharmacy is well lit.
In the Third World it is actually easier, since only the oldest and cheapest drugs are available. In India, for example, Chloramphenicol is the drug of choice for most illnesses, and it costs about 2 cents a pill to make. True, it does kill great many classes of bacteria, but, in a significant percentage of patients, it does the same to their bone marrow, and irreversibly. Despite conspiracy theories that it was banned in the USA to allow more expensive still-patented drugs to be sold instead, the truth of the matter is its inherent danger of use. Of course, when faced with certain death from cholera or a possible, although generally fatal, aplastic anemia, one chooses chloramphenicol.
The moral of the story is – either get yourself an MD degree, or find someone who has one and let only them prescribe your antibiotics.October 22, 2009 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #664080JotharMember
I had a doctor who kept prescribing antiobiotics for a cold-related. I developed allergies that I never used to suffer. I also noticed that he prescribed whatever drug he had a free tchatchke from. I switched to a different doctor who told me that my cough was caused by allergies and I should take cold medicine and use a steam inhaler. Works wonders.October 22, 2009 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #664081workingMember
I just wanted to tell the oilem over here that there is a simple thing called Kyolic( crushed garlic)— You can buy it in a capsul form or in a pill form or even in a liqued form. It helps tremendously for cold. This has the best track record of anything I ever tried. I will even crush a small piece and mix it with a bit of apple juice or any juice and give it to my infant when she has a cold. It really really helps . I am not one of these pple that are against medicine. I give medicine when needed but I find that kyolic really does the trick to fight off that nasty cold.October 22, 2009 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #664082
Find a frum Wholistic Doctor who knows Herbal Medicine, Acupuncture, Aroma Therapy, and Nutritional Guidance. Ask Hashem to help you find one.October 22, 2009 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #664083
Kyolic, while not bad, has most of the medicinal properties of garlic removed with the smell. Those a sulfurous in nature, and that is why they stink. Raw crushed garlic, allowed to oxidize for 30 minutes will help much better. To fight the bad breath, chew on a parsley sprig, and you won’t have a problem.
If you wish to try fighting a cold, try echinacea and elderberry extracts. Those have been used for millenia and were scientifically proven to significantly lessen the duration of viral colds. Both can also prevent a cold.
For sinus congestion and throat irritaion, use eucalyptus oil in a steaming hot bath or another method of inhalation. You will cough your lungs out from the initial irritation this will cause, but a great amount of foul mucus and gunk will come out, making you feel better AND allowing better air circulation in your nasal passages after.October 22, 2009 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #664084starwolfMember
People who “automedicate” can be making a horrible mistake.
Consider that a physician relies on courses in anatomy, physiology, organic chemistry, biochemistry, pathology, immunology, virology, parasitology, and others to get his basic knowledge of the human body and its associate workings, as well as courses in pharmacology to get a knowledge of drugs.
Replacing those basics, as well as years of experience, with a few bits of knowledge gleaned form the internet, or what was told you by your “interlaws” does not make sense. Just as there are good, logical reasons that we get piskei halacha from Rabbanim, we get medical opinions from doctors. While they do not know everything, their knowledge is better than that of those who have not acquired it.
Regarding all the “herbal” remedies mentioned above, a word of caution. Many people feel that these, since they are not “drugs”, need not be approached with caution. This is a misconception. They are not regulated by agencies such as the FDA. This, however, is a legal issue, not a medical one. Just because these substances occur in nature does not mean that they do not pose any dangers. Many natural substances can kill, be addictive, cause uterine contractions or abortions, and have many other side effects.
Be careful, amass information from reliable sources (usually academic)and consult a physician that knows you. If you don’t have one, get one.October 22, 2009 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #664085
Starwolf, I recommended the above natural substances with the knowledge of the sciences you listed above. If you have read my other posts, especially in regard to those fools who yell against vaccinations, I am the first one to warn people against using the health food store’s shelves for medical education and self treatment. These compounds suggested have been tested, extensively, and, while neither is a panacea, in the dosages sold they are not harmful. Much of other “stuff” sold under naturalistic labels is, and should either be avoided totally or used under guidence.October 22, 2009 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #664086
wow!You guys really know what you’re talking about!October 22, 2009 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #664087BemusedParticipant
Is the 30-min oxidizing time for kyolic intended to make it more palatable, or for medicinal purposes? That is, if one can handle immediate ingestion, is it *more* effective, or less?October 22, 2009 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #664088starwolfMember
I did read your posts, and mine was not meant as a criticism in any way. Nor is this one.
I simply strongly believe in added precautions and warnings.
But now that you mention it, just as you posted, while the substances that you mentioned have been tested, not all substances sold in “natural food” stores have. Also, keep in mind that just as with drugs, a small percentage of people can have very bad allergic or other reactions to some of these substances, and not all companies post adequate warnings on their labels.October 22, 2009 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #664089
Oxidizing time is for raw garlic, to let the allium sulfuric compounds combine with oxygen, not only incresing their potency for medicinal purposes, but actually enabling it. This very oxidation is also responsible for garlic’s increased sharpness and stench. Therefore, products that ensure that their garlic hasn’t come in contact with air, are, by definition, severely limiting its potential, such as in Kyolic or Garliq.
Therefore, if you truly desire to have the benefits of this herb, use raw untreated one.October 22, 2009 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #664090BemusedParticipant
Thank you, sammygol! May you be blessed!October 22, 2009 3:58 pm at 3:58 pm #664091
Amen, and you likewise!October 22, 2009 4:05 pm at 4:05 pm #664092
There is an odd substance sold to treat depression called St. John’s Wort. While it treats absolutely nothing, and may simply have a basic placebo effect, it didn’t even help its eponymic, who, supposedly, was so obsessed with his visions that he ended his life quite early. Now, had it been touted as a treatment for schizophrenia, well, that would be possible……October 22, 2009 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #664094HealthParticipant
Med. Prof.- Don’t prescribe ABx unless there is a clear cut bacterial infection acc. to the guidelines. Patients don’t ask for antibiotics unless you have a clear cut bacterial infection. ABx aren’t for sore throat unless you have a PROVEN Strep. infection. (Or other rare illnesses.) A lot of clinicians are intimidated to give an antibiotic because they are afraid they will lose business to someone else.October 22, 2009 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #664095
Once one of my kids had a red eye infection, and me living in Mexico took her to a pharmacy , in Mexico you do not need a prescription for antibiotics so I asked the person behind the counter to give me some eye drops, I bought them went home and applied it. She told me her eyes were burning, well they gave ear drops instead of eye drops. Can you imagine. I believe prevention is the most important part a person should eat plenty of fruit and vegetables and always go to the doctor for regular check ups. I know people that their lives have been extended just from regular check ups and sadly I know people that never wanted to go to a doctor and are not in this world anylonger.October 22, 2009 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #664096
Hold on, please. A commonly prescribed AB therapy for bacterial conjunctivitis (Pink Eye) is Gentamicin, which is actually dispensed as EAR DROPS, since it can be used for both. Many people inthe USA ask their pharmacist in great wonder why he dispensed ear drops when eye drops were prescribed, and hear this reply. Tobramycin, another aminoglycoside antibiotic, is usually dispensed as eye drops, but can be used for ears, as well, depending on circumstances. Go figure 🙂
This must be a conspiracy by the AMA to ensure that people see accredited physicians and pay their fees, or by the pharmaceutical companies who desperately wish to be sued out of millions.October 22, 2009 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #664097
cortisporin is very commonly prescribed for external ear infections. It is highly irritating when used in the eyes, and can produce a moderate to severe chemical conjunctivitis. probably because of the osmolality, pH, or the preservative concentration, i never investigated this.
ive never heard of gentamycin otic being prescribed for ophthalmic infections.October 22, 2009 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #664098
It is prescribed because it works. Sometimes medicines are given not only for similar conditions, but even for a total off the label use, such as Erythromycin given for constipation due peristaltic inhibition. It stimulates the release of motilin – the hormone responsible for bowel contraction.October 22, 2009 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #664099
there is a very readily available, generic, gentamycin ophthalmic solution, priced very low. why would anyone prescribe the otic formulation which has NOT been formulated for use on mucous membranes?
if you say people do it, i cant argue with you. but in 43 years of practice ive personally never seen it done.October 22, 2009 5:50 pm at 5:50 pm #664100
I have seen it, in less than half time.October 22, 2009 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #664101A600KiloBearParticipant
When antibiotics were available OTC in Moscow, I forbade my staff from keeping them in our medical cabinet or from taking them (and narcotics) in the office unless prescribed – and when someone was sick enough to need an antibiotic RX I gave them very liberal sick leave.
By explaining resistant bacteria to my employees, I got them to stop abusing antibiotics; the policy was in response to one of my most trusted managers asking me whether it was OK to take antibiotics for a cold.October 22, 2009 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #664102LeiderLeider…Participant
I have very limited knowledge of medicine so please take my words with a grain of salt (perhaps several grains).
In the event you are prescribed antibiotics, it would be appropriate that you take acidophilus during this period. Acidophilus is a friendly bacteria which will aid in the prevention of your intestines from being harmed by the caustic properties of oral antibiotics.
Sammygol/Feivel/starwolf. I would appreciate your opinions on this matter.
– LeiderOctober 22, 2009 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #664103
Acidophilus is’t a bad idea. You can try a tastier version, with live-cultures yougurt, or, even better, Kefir.
However, ask your physician about having milk products in the gut with antibiotics, or any food for that matter.October 22, 2009 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #664104
ThanksOctober 22, 2009 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #664105HealthParticipant
I think sammygol is making a mistake. I did a net search for Gentamycin otic. I couldn’t find any such drug in this country. I did find it for pets and in the country of Canada. What is commonly done is that clinicians prescribe Gentamycin eye drops for the ear. My instructor said -you can use opthalmic drops in the ear, but not vice-versa, because otic gtts. aren’t sterile.October 22, 2009 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #664106
you can use opthalmic drops in the ear, but not vice-versa
indeedOctober 22, 2009 8:34 pm at 8:34 pm #664107
Health, I stand corrected. Thank you.
I haven’t dealt with pediatrics since my children have grown.October 22, 2009 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #664108
if you get a stomach infection do we also need antibiotics?,someone also told me that if a person takes pills for acne its bad for the liver and you have to go under treatment for it to get better,is that also true?October 22, 2009 10:56 pm at 10:56 pm #664109anon for thisParticipant
tamazaball, retinoids used to treat acne can cause liver damage, so patients taking it should have blood tests to monitor for this. Also women should be aware that retinoids can cause birth defects.October 22, 2009 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #664110coalMember
its so true TAMATZABALL!!!October 23, 2009 12:16 am at 12:16 am #664111
sammygol- Thank you for all the information on natural medicine. Have you used a neti pot, adding a pinch of salt with tepid water to the pot can help open nasal passages to promote better breathing. I found combining aloe vera juice and probotics helped my gastritus. May Hashem help you in your efforts to heal people.October 23, 2009 1:18 am at 1:18 am #664112
If you have a chronic gastritis it may be a very good idea to have it checked out, as it can lead to serious complications. You obviously know that alcohol and gastritis do not mix.October 23, 2009 2:38 am at 2:38 am #664113
sammy I don’t drink in fact I am a Tea Totler, the reason for my gastritus was eating foods that had too much oil. The gastritus was was a one time thing. I drank plenty of water to hydrate and I introduced Aloe Vera Juice and probotics and it helped BH. Within the same day I felt better. Saurkraut and Tempeh (providing you are not alergic to molds) have active cultures and could be substituted for probotics.October 23, 2009 2:56 am at 2:56 am #664114
Well my husband has a chronic cough. He has taken inhalators, antihistamin pills, he even went to an allergy clinic in Houston. They sent him weekly shots, I still don’t think he’s 100% cured. Maybe its nerves?October 23, 2009 3:02 am at 3:02 am #664115
Thanks for the info,n ano for this.October 23, 2009 3:09 am at 3:09 am #664116
Do I assume correctly that at least one of all the professionals that saw him ordered and read a chest X ray?
While this isn’t a medical forum, have you tried checking for reflux (GERD), the acid in which often causes chronic cough and may mimic asthma.October 23, 2009 5:26 am at 5:26 am #664117JaxMember
tamazaball: regarding your first post, when taking antibiotics for a simple cold, it’s causeing your body to get used to always needing the medication when a simple cold comes! which IMO(and i’m no doc), is not the best thing to be doing to your body! the body should learn to fight small colds on it’s own!October 23, 2009 6:12 am at 6:12 am #664118bein_hasdorimParticipant
Hey jax! I agree with jax, I very seldomly (redundant :-)) take a tylenol, etc..
under 5 a year. I believe that madication should be taken only when necessary,
besides the fact that they are less effective the more you take them,
they are also potentially damaging to ones health. This pill popping
generation is not fully aware of the consequences for their actions.
Instead of making a L’chaim once in a while, they make a L’chaim daily
or bidaily on tylenol, advil, bayer,and aleve, washing it down with
bottles of mylanta, & Pepto Bismol.October 23, 2009 10:51 am at 10:51 am #664119
Jax, the funny thing is that when one takes antibiotics for a cold, no matter what type and how much, the body is still fighting that small cold on its own, while the liver is being poisoned.October 23, 2009 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #664120
Yes, x rays and no acid reflux.October 23, 2009 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #664121
Since allergists haven’t been able to eradicate his cough, consider visiting a pulmonalogist. BTW, is he on any medications to lower blood pressure or for his heart?October 23, 2009 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #664122haifagirlParticipant
Oh yeah. I remember when I was on Lisinopril. Couldn’t stop coughing. Made me nuts.October 23, 2009 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #664123
Lisinopril and other ACE inhibitors are notorious for causing cough, due to increased bradykinin action on the lungs.October 23, 2009 3:51 pm at 3:51 pm #664124
He’s not on any medication. I’m not sure if he ever went to see a pulmonalogist.October 23, 2009 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #664125
Whoever is in this treath really knows its stuff. Shcoach
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