Mi Sheberach for Tzahal

I’m not sure how citing a mi shebeirach for the tzahal is supporting Zionism, and therefore whether one holds of Zionism or not should have little to do with this conversation. I also think that it is obvious that we owe our thanks to the tzahal – the only question is whether a mi shebeirach is the appropriate way of expressing this. Where else do we find a mi shebeirach to express hakoras hatov to somebody? The only times that we normally do this is for somebody who has done something for the shul – bought an aliah, etc. Why can’t we have the tzahal in mind, along with all of Klal Yisroel, when we say Sim Shalom, Rieah Nu, Shomer Yisroel, Acheinu, etc, etc.

My Friend: Thanks for answering my points. I had asked if you would like to be “mechadesh” an issur of expressing an indirect endorsement of the state, then you should do well with explaining how it’s permissive for Chareidi representatives to sit in the Keneset and for the chareidi public to take monetary assistance from the State institution?

I stated clearly that there may very well be a Torah and moral obligation to recite the Mi Sheberach on the grounds of the Chiyuv/Mitzvah of hakaras hatov; how do you see this relate to Mi Sheberach for Cuban communists rule?

The obligation of Hakaras Hatov is never measured by the amount given. Even the smallest amount of good done for someone obligates him to return hakaras hatov, as stated in the Gemara “one that opens a door for a fellow; his soul is obligated to him in return”. So your argument about how much the State has done for the chareidim with regard to security and financial assistance is baseless. (Additionally, your numbers and logic are way off.)

Your assumption that reciting the Mi Sheberach will have no effect on the Chareidi-Secular relationship, is also way off. The secular Israelis would like to see the Chareidim behave less arrogant and more appreciative for what is/was being done for them. How can you be assured that by sending a conciliatory message to our irreligious brethren it will have no effect at all? Isn’t one Jew who returns to the Torah worth a whole world?

Helpful…

“Goyim aren’t attempting suicide bombs against yidden in Toronto or Milwaukee. Only in Israel.”

Really???

Did you not hear just this past week about the bombs intended for shuls in Chicago?

Did you not hear about the conviction of the attempted bombers of the Jewish Center in Riverdale???

Did ever occur to you that the secular Zionist movement came into being largely BECAUSE OF the anti-Semitism all over the world. It was THAT that came FIRST! It was THAT that made Jews, even secular Jews want to go HOME to OUR own Land. You’ve got it backwards! Read Jewish history.

EDITED

Helpful: I don’t disagree with that, as I acknowledged myself in earlier posts on this thread. However, you are choosing to ignore all the good that has resulted on account of the State. Is it meaningless to you that millions of Jews have held back from intermarrying only on account of their identification with Judaism through the establishment of the State.

And, regardless of whether or not any bad has resulted through the State; YOU have a personal obligation of hakaras hatov for the Good that was done for you or your relatives who live in Israel, who are being provided daily with security and financial assistance.

nw13: Thank you for agreeing with many of my other points. I did not mean to say that the Gedolim should have in the past established a Mi sheberach for Tzahal as an act of Hakaras hatov. What I mean to say, is that the secular Israelis perceive the Chareidi act of omitting the Mi Sheberach as an act of arrogance and lack of appreciation for of all what the state has done for them. Therefore, if we would like to send a conciliatory message to them, then the obvious way to do that would be by reciting publicly a Mi Sheberach for them, as that would be a sign that we are accepting them too.

Why not go more than a misheberach, and every time you see an IDF soldier give him a hug and tell him how much he means to you, and what a great zchus he has to protect the klal. Maybe slowly you’ll see a diminishing of the animosity between the secular and chareidi. Why not make a dinner in honor of the IDF and dance with the soldiers?

Reb Aryeh Levin once told a street sweeper he was jealous of his olam haba, because he has the mitzvah of keeping the streets of Yerushalayim clean at 5:30 am every morning. He begged him to let him use his broom.

It is still unfathomable to me how anybody can think we are worse off with the Medinah than we were without it. If someone can explain, please do so.

Mod-80. So, where is todays specially appointed “kohen gadol” and his tzibbur? Why do they not get together daily and say tehillim every day after davening for “acheinu kul beis yisroel” like I do (and many people I know) instead of waiting until shabbos to recite a specific mi shebeirach. This also means, that you are equating border patrol duty with going to war (which I am not necessarily disagreeing with – I just have not thought it out all the way).

What is the source for your statement? I assume it is a mishna or gemara somewhere. How large a portion of klal yisroel are we talking about? 20%? more? Less? a designated number of people, say 25,000? How were those people chosen? Volunteer?

Fair enough.