Milchig Meal on Shavuos
Home › Forums › Controversial Topics › Milchig Meal on Shavuos
- This topic has 127 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by Rebbitzen Goldenpickanicerscreenname.
May 19, 2019 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #1729146
I honestly thought this thread would be a light fluffy discussion about cheesecake, blintzes and pizza…nothing to do with Chabad…how did it get so interesting?! Every river leads to the sea. Every topic leads to Chabad!May 19, 2019 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #1729132
Little – You referenced “Also Sh”t Tzitz Eliezer vol 17, s. 13.”
Typo: vol 16, s. 13
Also except from Shalah Hakodosh:
בשל”ה (מסכת פסחים פרק נר מצוה): ונוכל לומר דרך רמז,
שישלים סעודה זו במיני תרגימא, רצוני לומר, בלימוד
תורה, מלשון – תרגמא אביי אליבא דרבא כו’ (שבת נב ב,
ועוד), שהוא לתרגם דברי תורה וסודותיה מעניינים של יום.
ובאורֿהחיים (שמות כד, יא) על הפסוק “ויחזו את האלקים
ויאכלו וישתו”: רז”ל אמרו כי נתכוין לומר כי ע”י מחזה
שד-י נהנו והרגישו הבריאות והשובע כאיש אכל ושבעMay 19, 2019 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #1729144
Isn’t it odd that among all the ta’anos on Chabad, that they are not frum by not keeping halochos of shulchan oruch, examples are provided: not sleeping in a sukkah, eating cake before davening, starting davening late on shabbos and yom tov…BUT with all the ta’anos, I haven’t seen even once the ta’ana that they don’t eat seudah shlishis! Why is that?!May 19, 2019 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm #1729179☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
I haven’t seen even once the ta’ana that they don’t eat seudah shlishis! Why is that?!
Start a new threadMay 19, 2019 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #1729190
“BUT with all the ta’anos, I haven’t seen even once the ta’ana that they don’t eat seudah shlishis! Why is that?!”
It’s come up already. Sorry to disappoint.May 19, 2019 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #1729187
No one suggested that Shabbos Teshuvah drosho was not avoidable. All I stated was that the substitution of Divrei Torah was a bdi’eved, not lechatchilo.
As for the Rav Shulchan Aruch, this is one of many instances in which the minhag Chabad is not consistent with the psak in the RSA.May 19, 2019 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #1729185
Ok folks – NEWS FLASH! I just called one Chabad shul (5-Towns) and asked if they have seuda shlishis on shabbos? The answer was…drum roll…yes, a “small” shalosh seudos, with washing, lechem mishne etc. So I made a few more calls to various Chabad shuls in a variety of cities accross the USA. Those that answered the phone all said they serve some form of seuda shlishis!!! Therefore, from my research, it seems that many (if not all) Chabad shuls actually have seuda shlishis. Facts are facts.May 19, 2019 11:42 pm at 11:42 pm #1729210
The last few dozen posts were totally off track: about seuda shlishi on shabbos.
Let’s stay focussed folks.
This thread is LIGHT.
This thread is about about shavuos meals, cheesecake, blintzes, pizza, kiddush on milk (and nothing AT ALL to do with Chabad – but somehow every topic seems to gravitate to Chabad, why is that?!).May 19, 2019 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #1729195GadolhadorahParticipant
The Rebbizen paskans tha ” just like it is not suitable to wear weekday clothes on shabbos and yom tov, so too once must not serve weekday foods. Pizza is definitely associated with weekday foods, therefore, it isn’t yom tov’dik”…..
So, by that logic (or lack thereof) it should no be assur to eat cholent on Shabbos and yom tov since there is more cholent consumed by bnai torah at Thursday night cholent fests than on Shabbos and cholent has now become a “weekday food”. Some may recall the brogias several years ago when the Batatz tried to shut down the cholent specials that had grown incredibly popular among bochurim in Meah Shearim after the Thursday night seder. Their concern, however, was not that cholent should only be served on Shabbos but rather that the bochurim would hang around stuffing themselves on chulent until the early hours of eruv Shabbos,, a practice that the roshei yeshivos in the area said “causes disturbances in both ruchniyus and gashmiyus.” Resttaurants that failed to comply were at risk of losing their Badatz hashgacha. The restauants’ argument that the bochurim were simply yearning to enjoy a “taste of Shabbos” early were rejected by the Badatz.
editedMay 19, 2019 11:49 pm at 11:49 pm #1729199
To clarify: I did not ask what us minhag chabad about seuda shlishis, I simply asked if they have a seuda shlishis and the answer unanimously was YES. That my friends are the real facts on the ground (maybe b’shita they hold different but practice is what matters).May 20, 2019 12:51 am at 12:51 am #1729225
Googlehador, even if a bochur eats cholent 3 x a week, every day of the week, cholent will still remain a ma’achol shabbos. You can never take the Shabbos out of cholent. Likewise, you can never put the Shabbos into pizza, it will remain a weekday food, and even if you decide to serve it only on Shabbos, it remains voch’dig.
There are some foods that we all know intuitively that they don’t belong to shabbos. We have the wisdom to know the difference. Those that nebech don’t, need help desperately because they have far bigger issues to deal with. Hatzlacha on your journey.
Repeat after me: Hashem, give me the serenity to accept things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.May 20, 2019 9:17 am at 9:17 am #1729325MilhouseParticipant
The origin of not eating fish with milk is definitely NOT a typo. It is an explicit Beis Yosef, and there cannot be any question that he meant what he wrote when he wrote it. The question is what is source could possibly have been, and whether he was right.
Almost all Ashkenazim rely on the Ramo, who says that the Beis Yosef made a mistake, נתחלף לו בשר בחלב; he momentarily confused the danger of fish and meat with fish and milk. Therefore there is no problem.
Sefardim and a few Ashkenazim reject this possibility and say the Beis Yosef must have had a source, and he meant that just as it is dangerous to mix fish with meat it is also dangerous to mix it with milk.
However, since no other source is known, they tend to limit it to the BY’s words and avoid mixing fish only with actual milk, or things close to milk, but not cheese or butter. Thus many of them permit cream cheese and salmon.May 20, 2019 9:24 am at 9:24 am #1729345☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Ok folks – NEWS FLASH!
I’m not sure why you have such a low opinion of Chabad that you think it’s newsworthy that some Chabad houses actually keep some halachos. Where’s your Ahavas Yisroel??!!May 20, 2019 9:24 am at 9:24 am #1729340MilhouseParticipant
“It’s not Shabbesdik” is the last resort of someone who has no argument.
No, Rebbetzin, we don’t all know these things intuitively. They are not universal truths, they are your personal preferences and prejudices which other people don’t share. There are more ways to celebrate Shabbos than are dreamed of in your constrained vision. More ways to dress, more ways to eat, and more ways to spend the day. Not everyone has to be the same.May 20, 2019 10:15 am at 10:15 am #1729446takahmamashParticipant
“We once had an adom gadol for a sukkos yom tov meal, we had a bar-b-q going on a low flame, so we served hamburgers, hot dogs and bar-b-q wings. The adom gadol complained that it is not yom tov’dik.”
An adom gadol should have enough common sense not to complain about the food at a meal to which he was invited. And by the way, our minhag for last day of Pesach is to BBQ for the day seuda. We had hot dogs, hamburgers, wings, and kebobs. A nice time was had by all, and nobody complained that the food was not fit for a meal on chag.May 20, 2019 10:15 am at 10:15 am #1729376
Milhouse, I guess you would take the same position also by shabbosdik dress, that with an unconstrained vision, the attire of a baseball cap, t-shirt, jeans and sneakers is also shabbosdig dress. Sorry, but our visions don’t see eye to eye. If such a wearer was to attend lhavdil a church r”l or an opera, s/he would get “dressed up”, simply out of respect for the institution or venue. Shabbos HaMalka deserves no less. Ditto with shabbosdig food, if one is serving a formal sit down meal, s/he wouldn’t serve the U.S. President or Israeli PM pizza or hot dogs. Shabbos HaMalka deserves no less kovod.May 20, 2019 10:15 am at 10:15 am #1729378
The Magen Avraham says that you can boycott fish on shabbos to bring down the price. Also, if he does nor like it, it is not oneg shabbos for him.May 20, 2019 10:15 am at 10:15 am #1729386GadolhadorahParticipant
Rebitzen….your mindless arrogance to asset that you know “intuitively” all these universal truths regarding what is allowed or prohibited under your warped notion of Halacha could be equated to kefirah. As to someone pushing back on your jabbering here, most have decided not to waste their time, but an occasional intellectual potch may help you focus. YOU do not dictate how other yidden celebrate shabbosim, yom tovim or otherwise interpret Halacha. We have our own LRP who advises us but please do continue to provide your version of SNL for us.May 20, 2019 10:15 am at 10:15 am #1729411
DY, I have unlimited Ahavas Yisroel and indeed regret (klapping Al Chet, Ashamnu Bogudnu) that I was mekabel this loshon hara which was repeated here as a “fact”: that Chabad does not partake in seuda shlishi, a sheker gomur.
A few minutes spent on calling a minyan of Chabad Shuls accross the country revealed that this assertion was false and pure loshon hara, motzi shem rah and rechilus. Those that have promoted such “fake facts” are choteh u’machti ess harabim.
Mind you, I don’t know if b’shita they do or don’t hold of washing at seuda shilis. I shtam from Yekkas and some family members b’shita don’t wash to uphold minhag avosom. I have seen a published sicha that explains why b’shita one might not wash at this seuda (but the sicha clearly states the need to eat a seuda
od mezonos or fruit – that appears to be te shita of the past Rebbe z”l).
In any event, whatever their “shitah” is, l’maaseh. the Chabad Shuls I contacted UNANIMOUSLY (without exception) do have seuda shlishis, even with lechem mishne as stated in Rav S.A. that one should not rely on mezonos or fruit and actually wash for this seuda.
This is a milsa d’avidi ligluyay, anyone can do their own due dilligence and investigate with a few quick phone calls. The secretaries/receptionist will be masiach l’fi tumo and answer honestly that seuda shlishi is provided to the tzibur in Chabad Shuls.May 20, 2019 10:15 am at 10:15 am #1729421
Everyone agrees that Shavuos needs lochem. The shtei halechem was chametz because if not for the yetzer hora, the Torah would have never been given to us but to the malochim. Alao, we can allow because of the Torah some more indulgence as we have a band aid that keeps us protected.May 20, 2019 10:16 am at 10:16 am #1729456
I speak as an insider. There are a great many Chabad shuls that conduct Shalosh Seudos just as in non-Chabad shuls. There are two items that need to be part of the discussion.
1 – Even in 770, where the Rebbe ZT”L conducted a non-meal farbrengen, his brother-in-law, R’ Shmarya Guraryeh (often referred to as the RaShaG) conducted Shalosh Seudos with a meal. I was told by old timers from Chabad that this was the will of R’ Yosef Yitzchok ZT”L, their father-in-law.
2 – Many Chabad shuls have minyonim that are composed of other Yidden who are not from Chabad, and they cater to the practices of their mispallelim. I have personal experience with this, and I am suggesting that this as not unique to my experience.
This explains your empirical data about Chabad shuls. Note that Chabad does not consider Shalosh Seudos a negative thing.May 20, 2019 10:52 am at 10:52 am #1729498Old Crown HeightsParticipant
A lot of chabad shuls serve shaleshudes. A lot do not. The out of town Lubavitcher Yeshiva I attended did not serve any food for shaleshudes. We sang a bit and someone said a vort and when my father found that out he asked me to come back home.May 20, 2019 10:53 am at 10:53 am #1729497
The little I know –
1 – ” the Rebbe ZT”L conducted a non-meal farbrengen”
I was told that he always had mezonos and wine at the shabbos farbrengen. It likely served as seuda shlishis too. ” this was the will of R’ Yosef Yitzchok ZT”L, their father-in-law” – are you implying that the brother-in-law Harav Guraryeh z”l followed the will of the Previous Rebbe, but the Past Rebbe z”l (who considered the Previous Rebbe as Nesi Doreinu) DIDN’T follow the will of his father-in-law?! Surely they BOTH had seuda shlishis!
2 – “Chabad shuls have minyonim that are composed of other Yidden who are not from Chabad, and they cater to the practices of their mispallelim”,
REALLY? Do ANY Chabd shuls cater to ANY other customs/practices of other Yidden mispallelim?!
Example; Do they sing Akdomus (which is in the Nusach Ari Siddur but not said)? Do they say V’Shomru Frinday night (again it is in their Siddur)? Do they lein at night of Simchas Torah? ….
Name any other custom/practice that Chabad shuls do simply to cater to other Yidden mispallilim!!May 20, 2019 10:54 am at 10:54 am #1729484zahavasdadParticipant
Which is more prestigious? A plate of Chulent or a nice thick juicy steak
I live in a pretty frum area and BBQ’s on the second day of yom tov seem to be pretty common. I dont know what they serve, but it smells good. I personally woulndt do it because of fire issues, but it seems lots of other people do (They might be Sephardim, but I dont know)May 20, 2019 10:55 am at 10:55 am #1729482
laskern, Moshe Rabbeinu’s reply of יצר הרע יש ביניכם to the malochim’s complaint of תנה הודך על השמים, only one of multiple “proofs” that Moshe replied as evidence that the Torah belongs to Bnei Yisroel and not malochim.
In Shabbos 88b Moshe gave a list of replies including positive attributes of Bnei Yisroel:
למצרים ירדתם לפרעה השתעבדתם תורה למה תהא לכם
בין עמים אתם שרויין שעובדין עבודת גלולים
אתם עושים מלאכה שאתם צריכין שבות
משא ומתן יש ביניכם
אב ואם יש לכם
Only ONE of them were related to having a yeter hara:
קנאה יש ביניכם יצר הרע יש ביניכם
So why would you give full credit to the yeter harah by stating: ” if not for the yetzer hora, the Torah would have never been given to us but to the malochim”???
In other words, even if there wouldn’t be a yeter hara – as l’osid lovo when “es ruach hatumah avir min ha’aretz”, the other replies uphold the right of Bnei Yisroel to receive the Torah.May 20, 2019 10:57 am at 10:57 am #1729477
RGP: The Minhag Lubavitch is for men not to wash on seudah shlishis. To rehash stuff that has already been said on the CR: the Rema holds you can be yotzei shalosh seudos without bread. The Chabad minhag of avoiding bread seems to have started with the Tzemach Tzedek (according to posters here).
“The origin of not eating fish with milk is definitely NOT a typo.”
“Almost all Ashkenazim rely on the Ramo, who says that the Beis Yosef made a mistake, נתחלף לו בשר בחלב”
By “typo” people might be referring to the shittah that it’s a mistake/he didn’t really mean it. Clearly that shittah is not “definitely” wrong when all Ashkenazim hold of it.
I might just be misunderstanding your point, but where did you get the idea that achronim never hold that something in the S”A is a copier’s mistake?May 20, 2019 11:21 am at 11:21 am #1729517
zahava – “Which is more prestigious? A plate of Chulent or a nice thick juicy steak”, the issue is not “prestigious”, a high-end (expensive) brand name imported pair of sneakers might be more “prestigious” than a cheap pair of black loafers. Yet, one is shabbosdig and the other simply isn’t.May 20, 2019 11:22 am at 11:22 am #1729520
Gogolhadar – “Rebitzen….your mindless arrogance to asset that you know “intuitively” all these universal truths regarding what is allowed or prohibited under your warped notion of Halacha could be equated to kefirah.”
Those who comfortably reside in a fictional bubble of frumkeit get annoyed they someone who is actually “chored lidvar Hashem” by not seeking kulas in halacha, takes a tiny pin to burst their comfort zone. The only “kefirah” I have is complete heresy to the comfortable bubble you reside in.May 20, 2019 11:56 am at 11:56 am #1729534
If there is no yetzer hora, then all the mitzvos, as we know them, will disappear since there will not be any outside resistance and no yetzer tov and everything will be done because we will recognize that they will be the right things to do. This world will turn into olam habo as Adam before his sin. All other answers are related to the yetzer hora.May 20, 2019 1:00 pm at 1:00 pm #1729557
Be careful with all the chumros not be like a dog who wants to make everything tref in order thar it should get more. The Neviim needed proof from the Torah to establish anything new. The Torah gives us guidelines for chumras:
1. The Chachomin according to the Rambam are ovar on Baal Tosif if they say fowl is assur biblically to eat with milk,
2. If you add to it, you show the Torah is incomplete and thereby you can also take away from it
3. וחי בהם, ולא שימות בהם
4. לא ניתן תורה למלאכי השרת
5. תפסת מרובה לא תפסתMay 20, 2019 1:00 pm at 1:00 pm #1729549
laskern, “If there is no yetzer hora, then all the mitzvos, as we know them, will disappear since there will not be any outside resistance”
you need to read Rambam end of Hilchos Melochim:
באותו הזמן לא יהיה שם לא רעב ולא מלחמה, ולא קנאה ותחרות, שהטובה תהיה מושפעת הרבה וכל המעדנים מצויין כעפר. ולא יהיה עסק כל העולם אלא לדעת את ה’ בלבד. ולפיכך יהיו ישראל חכמים גדולים ויודעים דברים הסתומים וישיגו דעת בוראם כפי כח האדם, שנאמר: כי מלאה הארץ דעה את ה’ כמים לים מכסים.
Note that the Anshei Kneses Hagdola יומא סט ב wanted to be mevatel the yetzer hara. Yet, based on your words, they would have also abolished all mitzvos…May 20, 2019 2:17 pm at 2:17 pm #1729587
RG, did you read carefully what I wrote? I anticipated all your questions.May 20, 2019 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #1729620
“The Chachomin according to the Rambam are ovar on Baal Tosif if they say fowl is assur biblically to eat with milk”
What’s the mashal to this thread? If you’re saying that the entire Sphardish oilam is over bal tosef by avoiding fish and milk, then obviously you know you’re wrong.
And, don’t let RGP troll you into making a argument you don’t even actually mean. Just because the anti-BBQ thing is silly doesn’t mean such a concept of “non-Shabbosdik” and oneg Shabbos don’t exist.May 20, 2019 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #1729621
RG, If I remember that gemora correctly, they only wanted to eliminate the yetzer hora for a’z.May 20, 2019 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #1729622
lascern – “Be careful with all the chumros”, pray tell how you implement the MITZVA (biblical!) of קדש עצמך במותר לך? That isn’t a “guideline” nor is it “optional”, the Torah biblically MANDATES and OBLIGATES on all of us to take on chumras, to REFRAIN from things that are muttar!! You need to straighten out your mentality of taking the easy road in Yiddishkeit, grabbing kulas and mocking churas (by saying that those who are machmir – as a fru yid MUST, are like dogs). That is wimping out from doing rotzon Hashem.May 20, 2019 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #1729625lowerourtuition11210Participant
Rg: you started this thread with a series of questions that included:
4. Does anyone serve pizza or is it considered not yom tov’dik?
5. Does anyone use milk to make kiddush for this meal?
Where did you indicate you wanted a “light” discussion? Yes we have served and eaten homemade pizza on shavuous day as I consider it on the same level as cheese blintzes, cheese cake, baked ziti, eggplant parmesean, lasagne. I dont serve any of these these at a shabbos seudah becuase i eat fleishigs at the first two seudos not because they are not shabbosdik. And while you proved to me that milk is chamar medina I dont know anyone who makes Kiddush on milk.May 20, 2019 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #1729643
You wrote: “the Torah biblically MANDATES and OBLIGATES on all of us to take on chumras, to REFRAIN from things that are muttar!!”
You are 100% correct. Where you go wrong is that your choice to refrain from something enters it into a category of issur, that someone that makes another choice, and doesn’t adhere to the chumra you have chosen is being “meikil”. That is blasphemous. The Raavad suggests that we leave over some foods on our plates, as a way of refraining from the muttar. It’s an idea, but it would be baal tosef to claim that not doing so is a kulah. This is an instance where we make personal choices of refraining from “MUTTAR”. If I choose to not eat cheese on Fridays (yes, there is such a minhag), that can be mine. You are no less frum if you do eat cheese on Fridays. It never entered my mind to inquire whether someone was as frum as me if they shared the same minhag as me. The idea is not about concocting more mitzvos, but in our exerting control over ourselves so that we do not get swept away by the worldly desires. What we choose is not a matter at all of bein odom lachaveiro, and has zero relationship with the kadeish atzmecho of another human being. If I do not do what you do, how does that make me wimping out on Ratzon Hashem?May 20, 2019 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1729644
RG, there is no help for you. It means don’t be a glutten like a dog. The nazir is a sinner because he refrains from things that are mutar. For everything assur we find something that tastes like it and being mutar. Hashem creating the world to share everything with us עולם חסד יבנה as the midrash on tehilim explains. As in everything the middle way is the best. Chanoch was taken away because he wanted to be a hermit and he behaved like a malach. There is no place for malachim in this world.May 20, 2019 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #1729646
RG, as I mentioned before, the tzelem has only extremes, but the magen david has only middle poihts. We don’t believe in cellibacy and do things with a measure.May 20, 2019 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #1729648
It says בכל דרכך דעהו know Him through all your ways. See SA O’CH 231. Do things לשם שמים but don’t refrain from doing it.May 20, 2019 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #1729651
Look at the Ramban Vayikro (19:2) don’t be נבל ברשות התורה emphasizing avoiding extrremes as I mentioned.May 20, 2019 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #1729678
The little I know, I applaud you for articulating so clearly my point.May 20, 2019 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #1729694
קדוש עתמך במותר לך does not mean to give something up all together but do it with a measure.May 20, 2019 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #1729687
The Chidah says that at the last day Pesach everyone eats gebroks to show that the refraining from it the whole Pesach is only a chumra and not an issur emphasizing that a person is not in anyway better by following it and to unify everyone with one deed.May 20, 2019 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #1729702
The meaning of קדש עצמך במותר לך is: “האסור – אסור, והמותר – מיותר”, that which is ossur – is of course ossur, and that which is muttar – is unnecessary to indulge in.
The ice cream is kosher. It is muttar. But it is unnecessary to eat.
The French Fries are perfectly fine without the ketchup. Yes, ketchup is muttar (if it has a hechsher), but it is unnecessary. One does not need ketchup to serve Hashem.
I can be a frum yid and indulge in ice cream, but I am not acting holy when I do so.May 20, 2019 5:03 pm at 5:03 pm #1729714
laskern – “קדוש עתמך במותר לך does not mean to give something up all together but do it with a measure.”
Well, you certainly have a right to your opinion of what the Chazal meant (one can indulge but with restraint).
Sadly that you have such an opinion, it’s not what the Mesilas Yeshorim ch. 13 says:
והנה כלל הפרישות הוא מה שאמרו ז”ל (יבמות כ, א): קדש עצמך במותר לך, וזאת היא הוראתה של המלה עצמה, פרישות, רוצה לומר, להיות פורש ומרחיק עצמו מן הדבר, והיינו, שאוסר על עצמו דבר היתר, והכונה בזה לשלא יפגע באיסור עצמו. והענין, שכל דבר שיוכל להולד ממנו גרמת רע אף על פי שעכשיו אינו גורם לו וכל שכן שאיננו רע ממש, ירחק ויפרוש ממנו. והתבונן ותראה שיש כאן שלש מדרגות: יש האיסורים עצמם, ויש סייגותיהם והם הגזרות והמשמרות שגזרו חכמינו ז”ל על כל ישראל, ויש ההרחקים שמוטל על כל פרוש ופרוש לעשות להיות כונס בתוך שלו ובונה גדרים לעצמו, דהיינו, להניח מן ההיתרים עצמם שלא נאסרו לכל ישראל ולפרוש מהם כדי שיהיה מרוחק מן הרע הרחק גדול.
So once again I say, wimping out on biblical mitzvos is not doing rotzon Hashem.May 20, 2019 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #1729768
laskern, you called the nozir a sinner! At least call him a holy sinner.
See Maharsha Yevomos 20a:
קדש עצמך במותר לך כו’. דזה ודאי נקרא קדוש כמ”ש בנזיר קדוש יהיה גו’ ” ע”ש שהזיר עצמו מדבר המותר וק”ל,
the entire reason why the Torah calls a nozir “kodosh” (holy) is BECAUSE he refrained from wine!May 20, 2019 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1729679
Little – “Where you go wrong is that your choice to refrain from something enters it into a category of issur, that someone that makes another choice, and doesn’t adhere to the chumra you have chosen is being “meikil”. That is blasphemous. ”
Let me use the example of a thread I started: There is a shita (opinion) stay up BOTH nights of Shavuos, The sifrei halacha endorse this shita but say that these days most people have difficulty staying up both nights. That is called a HETTER. One who doesn’t stay up both nights is being MEIKEL ecause under strict halacha, one should stay up both nights.
When people start giving all kinds of justifications for not staying up both nights, claiming that they AREN’T being meikil, that is called wimping out.
One poster even justified not staying up the first night of Shavuos so that he can daven better. That is being meikel against the accepted halacha and having the chutzpah of claiming that it is proper I would respect if he said he is weak and doesn’t have the ability to stay up, but to make sleeping on Shavuos night into a “mitzva” – is hypocracy and a mockery.
In halacha there is often various opinions. One can choose to be meikel like the lenient opinions – but recognize that you ARE being MEIKIL. That you are NOT following the opinions that are machmir. That you are not doing something that is unanimous – l’chol hadayos. That you are wimping out and chosing the easy path in frumkeit.
.May 20, 2019 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1729784
דהיינו להניח מן ההחיתרים עצמם can mean not to give up completely. You made up your mind already as usual and cannot be convinced otherwise. It will do you some good by reading The little I know’s full post and be respectful to others.May 20, 2019 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1729794
It matters why he is a nazir as Shimon Hatzadik pointed out.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.