October 14, 2010 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #592631APushetaYidParticipant
what do you say about this miracle? WOW! I don’t know I am totally overwhelmed it’s totally a miracle yad hashem it gives me koach to think if hashem wants he can do the impossible!October 14, 2010 6:52 pm at 6:52 pm #706066apushatayidParticipant
Lots of pushata yidden i see.October 14, 2010 8:13 pm at 8:13 pm #706067
This story came to my mind this morning (its from Rabbi Frand)
One day, Eliayhu Ha’navi decides to pay a visit to the Bais Hachayim (the cemetary), and give everyone a “one day pass” meaning, everyone stands up, in perfect health and is free to go and do whatever it is they please. But for one day only; after that, its back to the grave until techiyas hamaisim.
Needless to say, each and every person will put their day to good use. One will visit an aunt they always meant to; another will call a friend to apologize for something said proir to d-day; yet another will rush to finish the blatt he was in middle of, and then start the next blatt. And so on.
But not one will simply waste the day. Because they now now, that time is precious, and time can run out at a moments notice.
So (continues Rabbi Frand, in his booming voice) “vos is azio shlect” (yiddish for: what’s so terrible, but it sounds so much better in yiddish) if we (the people in the audience) have more than just a one day pass? Should’nt we make the most of each and every moment?
True, the rescue story was a great feat. And the miners have a lot to be thankful for.
But are they changed people? Ok, I’m not sure how a goy should react to this sort of life altering experience. I only saw the photo of one miner kneeling (perhaps not the way I express gratitude to my Maker, but it was a nice expression on the miner’s part. But when the media dies down, where do the survivors go from there? Are their kids / family changed people?
Still, it is a good story. If there’s a lesson I learn from this its this: never give up, and put your time to good use!October 14, 2010 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #706068blinkyParticipant
Very nice lesson, Im inspired! (BP totty i see you are in one of your better moods, not in that scary mood when you tie your kids to the tree…:)October 14, 2010 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #706069commonsenseParticipant
bptotty, many of them thanked G-d. i was watching on the bbc website and every so often they would have translation of what they were saying and almost all of them said that they had faith that G-d would help them. Also there are many lessons and middos we can learn out from their behavior throughout the whole ordeal.October 14, 2010 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #706070smartcookieMember
I was amazed by this whole ordeal. I can’t stop thinking about the miners’ and their familys’ feelings.
They truly came out of their graves!October 14, 2010 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #706071PosterMember
what did they survive on? I was totally not following.October 14, 2010 10:22 pm at 10:22 pm #706073L613Member
Rabbi Simmons on Aish.com pointed out that the value of a life is SO precious, and that is the reason why the government spent limitless amounts of money to rescue them, and millions of people have been so concerned over their wellbeing.
It’s a great article, currently on the front page of aish.com.October 14, 2010 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #706074
Yes, Blinky; every once in a while, the humanity in me bubbles to the surface 😐
Commonsense – You are right; the saying is, “there are no athiests in foxholes”. When trapped, and all else seemed bleak, I’m sure there was a whole lot of praying and deal making by both miners and the families up on the ground.
The difference is, when we overcome a huge challenge we (hopefully!) keep the momentum going and really do become (try) to be better people.
Many years ago, I heard a speech in response to a community tragedy that got me to stop talking with my tefillin on.
So yes, it was a very moving moment; the speaker, Rabbi Sussner of BP, was great. But did it make a lasting impact? Did it change the way people act?
I can’t speak for the other people in the room, but I’m willing to say, if not that time, then surely the next speech (or the one after that) reached them.
So we (klal yisroel) change for the better, when we survive a challenge. Do the miners?
Lets wait and see….October 14, 2010 10:43 pm at 10:43 pm #706075zaidy78Participant
Yesterday, when I was watching the rescue something very odd occured to me. I generally not one who believes in conspiracies, but this whole rescue just seemed very odd.
Remember, these guys were underground for 69 days. Thats 69 days. When they came up through that tiny whole, they looked far too well groomed. Their hair wasn’t too long. They all looked like they took a recent shave. If these guys were trapped for 2 plus months they should have looked like Sadaam Hussain when he was found. Ela may, they had some provisions in the mine. How come you never see any of that kind of stuff coming up??
Theres got to be something missing in the whole story….October 14, 2010 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #706076oomisParticipant
Everyone is affected differently by a life-altering experience. Hopefully, they have been affected only in a positive way.
As for myself, when I hear of this kind of story and the successful outcome, my response is Boruch Hatov v’HaMeitiv.October 14, 2010 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #706077ramateshkolianMember
I heard something really nice: when they were down there, they sent up their requests (ie cigarettes, etc) but only things that were approved by nurtritionists, psychologists, etc. were sent down. We have all sorts of requests for Hashem, but He only sends down what is best for us….October 15, 2010 1:57 am at 1:57 am #706079
I also followed this story closely, intrigued on many levels by Hashem’s ways. The marvel of how the men arose in such good condition is largely due to the hishtadlus (and Hashem’s nod)that the government, particularly the minister of mining, did in order to sustain them physically and mentally from the time they were discovered and contacted on August 17 until yesterday, when the capsule and tunnel were finally both ready for use.
I also kept looking for the message to Jews, there always is in events like this. Not sure I have it yet, but there is at least one Jew who figures prominently in this story—the Chilean philanthropist and mine owner Farkas who gave $10k to each of the 33 families after the accident, and told them he would raise a lot more money for them (I don’t know if he owned the mine where the accident was).October 15, 2010 1:58 am at 1:58 am #706080
Also can’t help wondering why does Hashem cause us to have to go into the depths of the earth, an environment so unnatural to us, in order to retrieve metals?October 15, 2010 2:10 am at 2:10 am #706081HomeownerMember
Read some more. Lots of things were sent down to the minors. How do you think the television camera got there?October 15, 2010 3:31 am at 3:31 am #706082commonsenseParticipant
poster: for the first 17 days the man who was the leader of that group took charge. They had emergency rations stored in the mine that should have lasted for two days. the leader doled out a minimal amount of food once every two days until they were found and a way was found to get them food. it’s very amazing that they all listened and didn’t kill him to get the food. they weren’t found for 17 days, most people would have given up hope long before then. there are so many amazing parts to this story!October 15, 2010 4:17 am at 4:17 am #706083frumladygitMember
IF a Yid had have come out of the mine alive, what would be the Bracha he would make?October 15, 2010 5:03 am at 5:03 am #706084WIYMember
I think one would make Baruch (without shem umalchus) sheasa li ness bimakom hazeh.October 15, 2010 5:21 am at 5:21 am #706085kapustaParticipant
I, too, was wondering what lesson we can learn from this. We know everything that happens is a message for Jews, so its just a matter of finding it. As I was reading through this thread, something came to me.
The mine was blocked off by 700,000 tons of rock. But the miners made contact with the outside world, and through a tiny hole, they all made it out alive. A person can spend all his life sinning, and even if he has huge amounts of “sin” and tumah trying to get in the way of his neshama, all he needs is a small hole to start doing good. And a small hole to come back to Hashem. The same idea as concept of opening a hole the size of a needle, and Hashem will make an huge opening.
May we all be zoche to get rid of the tumah, and find the hole to come back through.October 15, 2010 12:08 pm at 12:08 pm #706086minyan galMember
Frumlady – wouldn’t it be Birchat HaGomel?October 15, 2010 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #706087telegrokMember
Commenting on the miners’ recognition of Divine intervention – the WSJ reported that the shaft through which supplies and food were delivered over the past weeks was 5″ (five inches) in diameter. As one of the posters above noted, the miners requested many things. The WSJ reported that early-on, one of the miners requested 33 Bibles, so that he could lead religious services in the rescue chamber.
So, I would suggest that both before, during, and after the rescue, these men recognized the One from whom the rescue came.October 15, 2010 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #7060881818Participant
If we believe that hashem controls everything, then I am confused why Hashem sees fit to save goyim that have no connection to jews or to Israel.
but we read stories here everyday about frum people that are in accidents or getting stricken with serious illnesses.
I am not questoning G-d. just confused.October 15, 2010 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #706089
Ziedie 78 –
The situation was not that out of control, as there was a small drill hole made withing the first 3 weeks, after which supplied and medicine was able to be sent down. And they had plenty of space to move around, and running water.
Ramateshkolian and Kapusta –
Great observations! I’ll add to that by saying there is also a “line of communication” that connects you to “above” which keeps you level during a crisis.
Hashem does not require us to do that; no more than He requires us to drill for oil in the Gulf. Its our greed and consumerism that fuels that hunger.
Lastly, Telegrok –
You make a good point. The question is, do they still carry religion with them beyond crunch time, or was this the work of one inspired individual?
Again, I might be expecting too much from people that are not “maa’mid Har Sinai”. But regardless, WE have surely learned a lot from this story (and people say blogs are narishkeit!)October 15, 2010 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #706090YW Moderator-80Member
the value of a life is SO precious, and that is the reason why the government spent limitless amounts of money to rescue them
i think its a lot more likely that it had to do with world opinion and voters opinionsOctober 15, 2010 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #706091SacrilegeMember
i think its a lot more likely that it had to do with world opinion and voters opinions”
Lawsuits. (x33)October 15, 2010 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #706092telegrokMember
BP Totty – I won’t speculate whether these miners will carry their faith into the future, but I will speculate on the faith of those who are not ma’amad Har Sinai.
As we know, the practice of rabbonim receiving inquiries from prospective geirim is to initially discourage the geirus. The corollar of that is that we do not actively proselitize. We also know that there are sheva mitzvos b’nai Noach. So, when combined, we arrive at the following analytical construct: We have 613, they have seven, including monotheism, belief in One G-d. So, we see that there is a basis for belief in One G-d in the non-Jewish world.
Is that basis acted upon? I would say, yes. We may look around at common societal values – movies, television, etc., and ask, “Does this society reflect Divine values?” And, I’ll acknowlege that there is room and basis upon which to ask that question. But, much the way we forgive the tinok she’nishba, we might consider the possiblity that many people in the general world are not sensitized to the proposition that much of today’s “popular” art, music, culture could well fail standards to which b’nai Noach are subject.
But ask the average man on the street whether he believes in a G-d who loves and gives, a G-d who will exact punishment, and a G-d who created the world, and I think the answer, particularly in the heartland of America, will be yes.
So, faith in the One is expressed in different ways, some more frequent than others (we go to shul seven days a week, others go once per week). But, I would argue that the difference between ma’amad Har Sinai and not having been ma’amad Har Sinai is not an inherent obstacle to believing in a Creating G-d.October 15, 2010 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #706093
Kapusta: Beautiful!! I hadn’t thought of that angle. I was thinking, though, about the “achdus” that this mining community seems to have with one another, I don’t think it could have been put on so seamlessly for the cameras, (or voters, or whatever) for 22 hours–they truly seemed deeply connected to one another and for the most part, respectful and caring toward one another. Also, the Jew who right away gave them all a large sum of money–he is described in such a way that makes me think he might not find acceptance in many of our communities. And yet there Hashem placed him where he was able to do this tremendous chesed that echoed around the world. I wonder how Hashem measures his zechus–by his compassion for his fellow or by the eccentric lifestyle he has?October 15, 2010 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #706094
And another character in this saga who stood out was the mining minister Golborne. Here was a successful CEO of a grocery chain, who was given the position last March by a president who wanted businessmen to run the government, not politicians. Golborne shed his suit & tie, and became family with the miners. Story after story poured out about how until the rescue he stayed in the camp with the remaining families 24/7, comforting them, crying with them, even playing guitar and singing with them at night to help them cope,; at the same time operating at the helm of an amazingly efficient rescue operation. What struck me was the kind of leadership that did not hold himself apart and above, seeking honor for himself. So many messages here for Klal Yisroel…..October 15, 2010 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #706095
One more: BP Totty: Weren’t we instructed to use gold in the building of the mishkan? How then is mining only from consumerism?October 15, 2010 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #706096
Good point, Ezrat. But back then, we had the resources (and then some) from Yam Suf and what was taken from Mitzrayim. Also, things used for “kedusha” things (like animals being used as a korban,or for food, which we elevate by saying a brocha upon) is use.
What society does today is ABuse. And this is the price humanity pays for being abusive.November 3, 2010 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #706097
Just a mere 2 weeks, and this story is all but forgotten
This is why I made the assetion that when we (meaning klal yisroel)find ourselves in an ais tzorah, we pray for a yeshuah, and when we are saved, we remain eternaly grateful for the nes we were granted.
The umos ha’olam walk away from a miracle, pat themeselves on the back for the “tech wonders” and “unwavering human spirit” and promptly move on to the next sensational story.
When we say, “shelo usani goy” or remember yitziyas mitzrayim, we can say it with pride!
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