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    Based on the information given, it sounds like setting the wall switch to control the light and a pull-cord to control the fan is doable (longer explanation below).


    – The fixture box must be able to support the weight and vibration of the fan.

    – The box must be attached firmly to beam(s) in order to support the weight and vibration of the fan.

    – The person who’s doing the work must know what he’s doing.

    Longer explanation

    1) A two-conductor cable with a hot and a neutral comes into the fixture box.

    2) A second two-conductor cable goes from the fixture box to the switch box.

    3) The hot wire coming into the fixture box is spliced to the black wire going to the switch box.


    If my understanding of your fixture box / switch box setup is correct, you will not be able to add an outlet by running a cable from the switch box, since there is no neutral present in the box.


    Please see the disclaimer in this post:




    ??? ?????? ?? ?????



    Thanks for your reply, and for confirming that it sounds OK. Your assumptions seem correct to the best of my knowledge. The fan wire will be connected to the additional spliced wires that were not connected to the old fixture.

    Interesting point about adding an outlet. I wasn’t planning to do that, and now I will continue to not plan it :).


    Just for fun, I told my friend the joke I heard here, “What’s black and crispy and hangs from a ceiling fan?”, and we laughed until he fell off the ladder.

    Dr. Pepper

    If there is a black (hot) wire connected to a white (neutral) wire and there is electricity flowing to the black wire- wouldn’t that blow a fuse?


    Dr. P- yes it would. But that is not happening here. The hot wire passes above the fixture to the wall switch, then back to the fixture where it is connected as normal.

    Dr. Pepper

    I think I’m missing something. Please let me know where I’m going wrong.

    There are two sets of three wires, each set has a black (hot) wire, a white (neutral) wire and a bare (ground) wire.

    The bare wires from both sets are connected to each other and the frame of the fixture. One of the remaining sets of black and white wires are connected to the corresponding black and white wires from the fixture and the other black and white wire are connected to each other.

    Is that correct?


    Forget the actual wire color for a moment. According to ICOT’s explanation, 3 of the four wires are hot (even though one of those 3 are colored white).


    Dr. Pepper-

    Let’s ignore the ground wires for now, since they’re only there for safety and don’t affect the functionality of the circuit.

    Here’s how I envision “squeak”s setup:

    ????? = black wire
    ????? = white wire
    x = splice
    O = fixture

    fixture switch
    box box
    hot? ?????? to switch? ??????
    ???????????x????????????????? ?
    ???????????O????????????????? ?
    neutral?? ? from switch?? ?
    ?????? ??????

    The black & white wires are encased in the cable’s sheath.

    The cable from the breaker panel comes into the fixture from the left.

    A second cable connects the fixture box to the switch box.

    When the switch is in the “on” position, the electricity flows thru the leftmost black wire, thru the splice in the fixture box, thru the black wire to the switch box, thru the switch, thru the white wire back to the fixture box, and thru the fixture. The “used” electricity then exits thru the white neutral wire to the breaker panel’s bus bar.

    When the switch is in the “off” position, the electricity flows thru the leftmost black wire, thru the splice in the fixture box, thru the black wire to the switch box, and proceeds no further.

    Some people will wrap a stripe of black electrician’s tape around the white wire that goes between the fixture box and the switch box to signify that it carries “hot” electricity.


    Thanks again, ICOT. Now my question is, why would a licensed, qualified electrician wire a circuit in this way? Obviously, it suits my current needs well, but for a simple fixture this seems to be an inefficient set up. Additionally, this set up means that the fixture itself is always live, whether the switch is on or off.

    Is this bad practise?



    This setup is absolutely fine, safe, and (as far as I know) according to code.

    The fixture is not live if the switch is off – there’s a live wire in the fixture box, which is entirely different.

    Sometimes the electricity goes to the switch box first (switch before) and sometimes it goes to the fixture box first (switch after). Either is OK. Your setup seems to be the “switch after” variety. (I keep hedging with terms like “seems to be” because I haven’t actually seen the setup myself.)

    Unless a three-conductor cable is run between the switch box and the fixture box, you will either have a fixture box with no true “hot” (if switch before) of a switch box with no true “neutral” (if switch after).

    You’re quite welcome – it’s my pleasure to share what I know, especially with folks whose brains I’ve picked on other topics.


    Here’s a link to a non-ascii sketch of a “switch before” setup:


    Here’s a link to a non-ascii sketch of a “switch after” setup:


    Moderator – if the URLs are a no-no, maybe delete this post after a short interval so that “squeak” and “Dr. Pepper” can see them first.


    Icot- thank you again. There is only one word to describe you, but I can’t say it here because miktzas shevocho b’fonov 😉

    the second diagram is exactly what i have. Did you draw those or find them?



    Thank you for the kind words.

    The sketches are not mine.

    I found them both on a page that turned up when I Googled “switch before”, “switch after” and a couple of other electric terms.

    The page itself had an ad I didn’t want to link to (nothing terrible by secular standards), so I just linked to the illustrations instead.


    i dont understand the point in splicing the black wire in the fixture box. is it b/c ur connecting it to the fan?



    The splice currently in the fixture box (before a ceiling fan is added) is to run the wires to the switch box, where the switch can control the current going to the fixture.

    A benefit of this (switch after) setup is that the new fan has a hot it can splice into without running any new lines.

    A downside to this setup is that if you wanted to control the light with a timer that needs its own neutral for the clock (such as an Intermatic mechanical wall timer), you’d be out of luck; there’s no neutral in the switch box. Your only options would be to: a) run a three-conductor cable from the fixture box to the switch box or b) connect the timer’s neutral to the switch box (if the switch box is properly grounded). Option “b)” is not according to code, and I don’t recommend it, but I’ve seen it done. In these cases, it’s much better to just get a wall timer that doesn’t need a neutral.


    oh thanx i looked at the your diagram again and now i think i understand that instead of having to run one big loop of a black wire and a white one u just need one strait line of both a black and a white wire b/c the electricity is coming from the other end


    Round 2: The ceiling fan is hooked up in the way ICOT described and works very well! My friend offered to dismantle an existing fan and perform the rewiring on it so that the fan can be controlled separately. However, when he opened up the fixture there appears to be only a single cable with a black, white, and bare wire.

    Assuming this meant a “switch before” configuration, he proceeded to open the wall switch box, hoping to verify it against the drawing. However, what we found was odd. There is a single cable with four wires – a black, a white, a bare, and a loose wire (that is capped and taped). Only the black and the white are connected to the switch. The bare wire is connected to the metal wall plate.

    My two-fold question is, what am I looking at, and how is it possible that there seem to be no additional wires going outside this connection? Any help would be appreciated.

    Note: The fan is/was mounted to a ceiling fan rated box, which I understand may be installed inside another ceiling box. If so, perhaps there are more wires inside the first box that I cannot see without removing the fan box? I will remove the fan box to check on this.



    In all probability, there is a third box in play here. It may be a fixture box, a switch/outlet box or a junction box.

    Here are a couple of possibilities:

    A = a third box.

    B = switch box.

    C = Fixture box

    S = switch

    O = fixture

    x = splice

    ???? = white wire

    ???? = black wire

    A      B
    ?????? ??????
    ??x??????S ?
    ??x x????? ?
    ?????? ??????
    ? ? ??C
    ? O???

    (For simplicity’s sake, the above sketch omits the unused third conductor and the ground wires.)

    The electricity flows from the left thru the black wire into “A”, thru the splice to switch box “B”, to switch “S”, back thru the white wire into “A”, thru the splice into the black wire into fixture box “C”, thru fixture “O”, thru the white wire back into “A”, thru the splice into the white wire and to the neutral bus bar.

    Another possibility is that the switch in “B” and the fixture in “C” switch places. If this is the case, the fixture will always be hot.

    If my diagram is correct, you can determine if the switch or the fixture is in “B” by using a neon tester on the fixture when the switch is in the “off” position.

    In either of these scenarios you won’t be able to separately control the light via a wall switch and the fan via a pull-cord since neither “B” nor “C” has both a hot and a neutral.

    What you’ll need to do is run a three-conductor cable from the fixture box (whether it’s “B” or “C”) to box “A”.

    This will guarantee that the fixture box has both a true hot and neutral (for the fan) and a separate hot for the light that the switch controls.

    If I’m not being clear on any point please don’t hesitate to ask.


    You are crystal clear, as usual. What you are saying makes sense and I will investigate it further (rather, have it investigated further :-)) and report back. Thank you.



    You’re welcome.

    Here’s a thought – maybe at one point there were three-way switches in boxes “A” and “B” in the above diagram, so that the fixture could be turned on and off from two separate locations.

    This would account for the three-conductor cable that apparently was run between “A” and “B”. Look for a covered switch box, possibly near a second doorway in the room. If you find one, take off the cover and see if its wiring matches the above sketch, plus the third red wire running to box “B” in the three-conductor cable.

    (This is just a thought/possibility – I’m far from certain that this was the setup).

    This makes no difference in the le’maseh that you’ll need to run a three-conductor cable between “A” and “C” if my diagram is correct and you want the light controlled by a wall switch while the fan is controlled by a pull-cord, each independent of the other. This is just to potentially help you locate box “A”.


    if you feel uncomfortable doing electrical work then make sure you hire a LICENSED electrician. http://www.electriciansnetworks.com is a good place to start–they all have current licenses and they give free estimates with no obligation.



    ICOT, I believe that your guess is correct. I know there are other electrical boxes that are covered because I painted them (heh heh). Rather than ruin the paint job to try and run a wire through a ceiling that probably does not have a big enough hole, I decided to leave well enough alone and leave both the light and the fan connected to the switch.

    yobwej, that’s good advice, but my method is that if I feel uncomfortable doing the work without a licensed electrician I just leave it alone 🙂



    I neglected to mention that some ceiling fans aren’t supported by the fixture box, but rather by a seperate piece that attaches to a ceiling beam. The separate piece is like a “collar” that surrounds the fixture box and often will have a vibration-absorbing rubber component. This is usually true with heavier fan units. I myself installed fans like this in an older house with the ancient tyle of fixture box – this allowed me to do so without changing the fixture boxes.


    422.18 Support of Ceiling-Suspended (Paddle) Fans.

    Ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans shall be supported independently

    of an outlet box or by listed outlet box or outlet

    box systems identified for the use and installed in accordance

    with 314.27(D).

    410.36 Means of Support.

    (C) Luminaire Studs. Luminaire studs that are not a part

    of outlet boxes, hickeys, tripods, and crowfeet shall be

    made of steel, malleable iron, or other material suitable for

    the application.



    Thank you for the code info.

    Do you do electric work?

    Dr. Pepper

    I can only try-

    Question for you-

    I bought a Craftsman digital voltmeter so I could fix the refrigerator. It’s much more advanced than the one I used as a kid.

    There are two wires (black and red) but three holes- grey, black and red. I’m curious to know what the grey one is used for. There is a warning on it- “10A For 30 sec. MAX every 15 min. FUSED”. I have no idea what it means but I’m nervous to experiment.

    Can you shed any light?


    Dr. Pepper-

    When testing amperage of a line, the maximum amperage that can be tested for is ten amps. This can only be tested for 30 seconds within a 15 minute period, due to cool-down time the unit will need.


    There are one or more fuse protecting the circuitry of your unit just in case you overload it. Replacing its fuse is a lot cheaper than frying the unit and buying a new one.

    I am reasonably sure the above info is correct, but, once again, this is not my area of expertise (sorry).

    The unit should have a manual that explains all of the above in detail, and also provides instructions on how to go about all of the testing that the unit is capable of.

    Poster “Pashuteh Yid” knows more about electronic circuitry than I do. Although I’m not sure if that translates to knowledge that would help you with refrigerator repair questions, any input he (or other knowledgeable posters) may have would be appreciated.

    Pashuteh Yid

    Just came back to this thread, and saw there was much action here for the past 4 months, all of which I missed, somehow.

    As far as the problem with overloading a fixture (100 watt bulb for 60 watt fixture) ICOT is 100% correct. More current will flow than the system is rated for, generating more heat than the fixture is rated for, which is a fire hazard, as ICOT says.

    Mod-80, that business of pulling electrons from the air is a very creative and radical theory, but I don’t think it is accurate at all. Voltage is what pulls electrons. How many get pulled as a result is the current that flows. It is true that a very high voltage can cause arcing which looks like lightning, but that cannot happen here. 120 volts or even 240 is not enough to cause arcing. If it were enough, then every time you turned a switch off, it would be a hazard, because the electrons would try to jump across the switch contacts. Every electric socket in your home, even if not used, would be a hazard, because electrons would try to jump from one conductor to the other. But even 240 volts is safe for arcing, so we don’t have to worry.

    Whether you use a 60 or 100 watt bulb, the voltage is the same. a 100 watt bulb has less resistance in the filament, which allows more current to flow, and more heat and light to be generated.

    Note that arcing is caused by a very high voltage which does rip electrons from the protons and neutrons of the atom. While air is a very good insulator until a point, it will break down in a high enough voltage. In your car, there are spark plugs for each cylinder. There is a transformer which converts a lower voltage to a very high voltage (I think in the tens of thousands). This causes elctrons to jump between the terminals. The resulting spark ignites the gas vapor and explodes in the cylinder, pushing the piston down with great force which turns your wheels via connecting shafts. Lightning is a form of arcing caused by high voltages in the clouds which develop possibly due to friction, like when you rub against wool and touch a doorknob.

    Pashuteh Yid

    Dr. Pepper and ICOT, I just looked up the Craftsman site, and it has pictures, so I see what it looks like.

    ICOT is mainly correct. In general, the older meters have manual ranging, which means you must turn a knob so that the range covers the voltage you are trying to measure. In other words, if you are trying to measure 1.5 volts, you should make sure the range (max voltage) is bigger, say 2 volts. You select different voltages, and different functions (current ranges or resistance ranges or even other tests like diodes and transistors) with the click knob. When measuring small voltages, you will get more accuracyy when using a small range. But if you use a small range for high voltages, you may blow out the meter.

    The newer technology meters have auto ranging. You just select amps or volts or whatever, and it adjusts the range so you get best accuracy, and yet don’t have to worry about blowing it out, since it will automatically switch ranges on its own.

    However, there is a limit to everything. It seems that if you want to measure currents bigger than an amp (please see instruction book) you must plug the probe into a different hole than for the smaller currents. This one is able to handle larger currents safely.

    The model 82312 which I am looking at, has a black terminal which is always for the ground or negative probe. The red one is for the positive probe when measuring most voltages and the lower currents. The gray one is for the positive probe when measuring high currents either DC or AC. Note that the dial is gray for the high DC or AC current settings to remind you to switch the probe into the other terminal. The other settings on the dial are red.

    In addition, even with the high current settings and terminals, you can’t run it continously, only for short times. It tells you maximum 10 A and only for 30 seconds every 15 minutes, or it will fry. It must cool down in between measurements.


    Pashuteh Yid

    Thank you for the info.

    (The timing of your return to this thread is uncanny.)

    Dr. Pepper

    I almost had the experience to answer your question firsthand.

    I did research on replacing the fan motor myself.

    Among the steps was using a voltmeter to confirm that the leads were receiving proper voltage.

    I was ready to buy a new voltmeter and fan motor and attempt the repair myself.

    Hatzlocha with the repair.

    Dr. Pepper

    I can only try-

    The repairs are long finished, I knew enough about voltmeters from high school to get the job done. I was just curious about the additional features.

    (The problem was that the defrost heater was busted, a brand new one cost much less than the price of the technician walking through the front door!)

    You may find this amusing-

    The kids wanted to know how to use my “new toy” so I showed them how test batteries and outlets. By the continuity tester, I told them that it’s a love tester. If someone wants to know if they love someone else, they hold the red wire and the other person holds the black wire. If the voltmeter beeps when the ends are touched it means that he/ she loves the other person. It comes in handy when two of them have a disagreement and one says “I don’t like you anymore”. I tell them that it’s not true and make them take the “love” test. The results are always positive.

    (It gets me nervous when they test to see if the baby loves them.)

    Pashuteh Yid

    ICOT, thanks for the promotion. But my training unfortunately is mostly textbook and theoretical, but when it comes to actual home wiring, one needs shimush and real experience, and I don’t have that. Learning electronics and learning electrical wiring are really different skills. Knowing how to run wires through conduits and walls and boxes is something I know little about. But understanding what is happening to the elctrons, and interpreting the various numeric quantities is something I do have training in.

    BTW, a while back we discussed taking out dimmers and putting in regular switches to use with the new compact flourescent bulbs to save money. WHile I never got around to installing the switches, I decided to try the bulbs anyway. They seem to actually work fine with the dimmer controls, (as long as they are all the way on). If anybody knows anything more, please share.


    Dr. Pepper

    What a great use for the continuity tester! I wouldn’t have thought it would actually detect continuity thru a person.

    Would your idea work for supper veggies too – i.e. broccoli, spinach, etc. – or would that be too much of a stretch?

    (Hopefully, your kids won’t be curious about someone who has a pacemaker.)

    Pashuteh Yid

    CFLs, unless designed to work with dimmers, shouldn’t be used with a dimmer switch, even if the switch is in the “full on” position.

    This can shorten the lifespan of the bulbs, and (much more importantly) be a safety hazard.

    Old-time dimmer switches used a simple resistor to cut down on the juice reaching the bulb, but modern dimmers actually flip the current on and off very rapidly.

    This on-and-off type of current is what CFLs have a problem with.

    Even if your dimmer is in “full brightness” mode, the dimmer circuit still has an effect.

    Please see the following for a more detailed technical explanation:


    (The page organizer thoughtfully put in tags; the one above is for his take on dimmers. If you have the time, the rest of the page is interesting and informative, too.)

    Cutting thru the technical jargon, there is a real fire hazard created by using non-dimmable CFL with a dimmer switch.

    If you want to gain the energy-saving benefits of CFL bulbs without the potchke / loss of convenience removing the dimmer would involve, why not just buy dimmable CFLs?

    Pashuteh Yid

    ICOT, thanks for bringing that to my attention. I will install those switches at earliest opportunity. The store where I usually do my Shabbos shopping had the CFLs for a good price, so I bought a whole bunch. I also liked that they have a warm tone. Most flourescent bulbs have a very unpleasant harsh cold tone.

    Dr. Pepper

    I can only try-

    Instigator holds the black one, victim holds the red one. They touch the metal contacts together. BEEEEP.

    It works just as well if either party has a pacemaker.


    Dr. Pepper-

    Thanks for the explanation – I thought you meant a single kid held one electrode in each hand.

    My misunderstanding may have been based on a personal experience with human body conductivity:

    As is sometimes done when checking for a live wire using a neon tester, I touched one of the tester’s probes to the wire and held the other with my hand to see if the tester glowed. It was a warm day, and I leaned my forehead against my metal ladder (yes, real electricians will use fiberglass ladders). To my surprise I felt a tingle in my forehead – due to perspiration on the warm day, my forehead completed the circuit, and a (fortunately very low amperage) current was entering my hand, traveling thru me, and exiting via my head.

    I never had that happen before, but ever since then I make sure that I’m not well grounded when holding the other end of a live neon tester.

    This inspired my brilliant idea for toilet-training pants – a small battery implanted within the pants, which when doused with an acidic liquid would complete a circuit, thereby delivering a mild jolt to the trainee.

    For some reason, P&G wasn’t interested in my idea (they’re probably just jealous that I thought of it first).

    My family was so impressed with my ingenuity that they honor me by no longer asking me to change diapers. ?

    (Of course the above is NOT serious – not that I think anyone would take it seriously, but hey – you never know.)

    Pashuteh Yid

    ICOT, In one bedroom of our house there was a ceiling light fixture that was totally worn out, frayed and possibly blackened, although it worked fine. I thought it was a big danger. I went to Lowes, and bought new fixture for 6 dollars. I thought would be simple job of unscrewing old one, unwrapping wires in electrical box, twisting new ones, putting on caps, and screwing new fixture back into box.

    However, I found there was no box!!! The oisvarf who did the work before, just screwed fixture into the wood. I found two exposed wires (and also a conduit shield) buried in insulation. I tested the live wires against the conduit shield to find which was power, and then connected to the black wire of new fixture and other to white. I twisted the braided wires of the new fixture to the solid wires of line (which does not hold very well, even with cap), and screwed fixture into the metal bracket he had put in the wood.

    I know this is very dangerous, and I guess I will need an electrican to fix. I did it temporarily because I reasoned that without a light, it is just as dangerous, if not more so, to have those live wires just lying around in the wood. I am also concerned that if water gets into the attic from any leak, it can cause a short. I did not use tape, as didn’t have any on hand. I probably should redo it with electrical tape. However, it works for now, so I don’t want to mess with it, especially since it was hard getting caps to stay on solid wire.

    So may questions are:

    1) This is not a new house (built in 1930’s). Was there ever a time when the code did not require a fixture box?

    2) Can I install the box myself? The wire seems very short, I don’t know if the entire conduit line can be pulled so that there is more length, or if it is too short to go any more.

    3) How would one splice conduit to make it longer, if necessary?

    4) Is this common, that some guy will wire up something so dangerous, and just cover it up and hope nobody will ever find out. How did he get away with this.

    5) Would you recommend an electrician to do all of what needs to be done, rather than doing it myself. I do not want to cut holes in ceiling and plaster and paint myself.

    6) When I first bought the fixture, the guy in Lowes said they would install it, but would be 140 dollars. That is crazy expensive for a 6 dollar fixture, so I figured I would save big and do it myself. However, now that I see what a mess the previous installation is, what would you recommend? What do you think an electrician would charge to do all the necessary work here?

    Thanks for any advice.


    Never noticed this thread before. Quite new here. Anyways, someone I know covered his walls with aluminium foil for Pesach. Any reason why his outlets started sizzling and smoking?


    Pashuteh Yid

    Unfortunately, enough knowledge to make the connection functional, without the knowledge to do it correctly and safely is not an uncommon combination.

    To fix it properly, a fixture box should be installed, and the correct connector used to fasten the cable or conduit to the box.

    1) This is not a new house (built in 1930’s). Was there ever a time when the code did not require a fixture box?

    I can tell you that there are different code requirements even nowadays as far as cables and boxes, depending on where you are.

    2) Can I install the box myself?

    Yes, if you know what you are doing. The correct box and connector must be used, the box must be grounded, the box must be securely fastened, a bushing (a piece of plastic that protects the wire from fraying on the edge of the BX ) may be needed, etc.

    The wire seems very short, I don’t know if the entire conduit line can be pulled so that there is more length, or if it is too short to go any more. ?

    3) How would one splice conduit to make it longer, if necessary? ?

    4) Is this common, that some guy will wire up something so dangerous, and just cover it up and hope nobody will ever find out. How did he get away with this. ?

    5) Would you recommend an electrician to do all of what needs to be done, rather than doing it myself. I do not want to cut holes in ceiling and plaster and paint myself. ?

    Based on what I perceive as your knowledge level and the fact that I can’t be 100% definitive without seeing your situation myself, I strongly recommend that you get a professional. Safety is the key here.

    6) When I first bought the fixture, the guy in Lowes said they would install it, but would be 140 dollars. That is crazy expensive for a 6 dollar fixture, so I figured I would save big and do it myself. However, now that I see what a mess the previous installation is, what would you recommend? What do you think an electrician would charge to do all the necessary work here? ?

    I recommend that a pro at least diagnose your situation before you try anything yourself.


    No good reason I can think of.

    Possibilities I can think of are:

    -the foil is contacting the terminals of the outlets.

    – the foil is contacting the uninsulated portion of the wire connecting to the terminals.

    – there is a short in an ungrounded switch box, and the foil is now grounding that box and exposing the fact that the short exists.

    All of the above situations are not good.

    The person should ensure that the foil is clear of all outlets, after first cutting off the power to those outlets.

    If after doing so there is still any hint of a problem, call an electrician.


    Just make sure the electrician is licensed or the employee doing the job is competent.


    Zeeskite – pictures, please??



    You DON’T want to see!


    Sorry. The story was true, the question was (obviously – I thought) in jest. Of course the one who did the covering pushed it in the sockets (ouch) to make a fit. It did – it made a fit!


    Pushed it in the sockets with what, a fork???

    omgosh… I hope no one was injured, and more importantly, learned something…


    Don’t know, maybe a (metal) screwdriver. A shocking experience! No – it wasn’t me. I just heard about it from the live conductor – live and kicking (B”H).


    Oh, how I wish I were an electron on the wall.



    I thought the story sounded funny, but answered seriously because I didn’t want to attempt a humorous answer, just in case it was a real question.

    Glad to hear it’s not (any longer) a problem – B”H the guy didn’t electrocute anyone (and no, I’m not joking about that).


    I know about that. Enough shocking revelations to teach me to keep myself and electricity (of high voltage) at a distance. (I can tell you what one zap of 10,000 volts feels like!)

    Just wondering, your name prompts me, how many try-outs did you do to perfect in electricity? (how many fried…)



    Just a bump, in case “Pashuteh Yid” missed the earlier reply.

    Actually, we haven’t heard anything at all from “Pashuteh Yid” since his post on this thread – why not drop in just to say “Hello” if for no other reason?


    Switched ground is very very bad, dangerous, and beyond irresponsible. Never trust wire color. Always verify. Some memorable shocks of mine: Moving the bx line of a pump away from a wet hazard. The jacket cut into the hot and I convulsed and locked on. Lucky me, I was standing on a steep incline, and was able to fall away. This altered my heart rhythm. After some months of following a different heartbeat, I was working on something that had the tell tale switched ground. Not paying enough attention, I backhanded it, and my went flying in the opposite direction. That set my heart straight again, but with some shoulder pain, and we never did find the screws that had been in that hand. The absolute worst, was getting the pulsed 10,000 volts intended for an oil burner ignition. On that occasion I quickly took my pulse to verify that I was still alive, because standing up was just not convincing enough.

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