Mixed-Up Minhagim

I think it’s beautiful.

I posted this a while back. I guess it’s appropriate for this thread:

A few years ago, Eeees and I attended a Bar Mitzvah given by a family in our neighborhood. Over the previous two years, we had become friendly with the family, had them over to our house for meals, invited them to our son’s Bar Mitzvah and now attended the Bar Mitzvah of their oldest son.

This Bar Mitzvah was not like the Bar Mitzvah that we had for our son. We had separate seating, they had mixed seating. All of our music was Jewish, theirs had quite a few secular tunes. Ours had a mechitza for dancing, theirs didn’t. At theirs, the DJ gave away a giant blowup Simpson’s couch to the best dancers (thank God our kids didn’t come away with that – they were orange! 🙂 ). We didn’t have a DJ or prizes. But that’s fine… no one has to do things our way, or their way.

During the festivities, Eeees and I talked about how our Bar Mitzvah was different from this and concluded that this type of affair was not one that we would have. If we had Walter’s Bar Mitzvah to do over again, we would probably do it the same way again. Aside from the separate seating (which we did for other reasons), we preferred the way we did it to the way this Bar Mitzvah went. That’s not to say that this Bar Mitzvah wasn’t good… we had a great time, and loved being present to help celebrate our friend’s simcha. It’s just not the way we would do it… but that’s fine – as I said above, two people don’t have to celebrate the same simcha the same way.

One of the things that we talked about at the affair was how we seem to be somewhere in-between several different mehalchim (paths). We’re not Yeshivish, yet I wouldn’t say that we’re really Modern Orthodox either. This past Shabbos we ate with a family who could be described as Yeshivish, maybe even Chareidi-like… and we were comfortable and had a great time. At the same time, we are also comfortable with our friends who just had the Bar Mitzvah, and they are clearly Modern-Orthodox and have a good time with them as well. We daven in a shul that could be described as Yeshivish, but yet has many people who are not in the Yeshivish mold. I don’t wear a hat, nor do I cover my head with my tallis, and yet I am the regular ba’al kriah there and sometime ba’al tefillah as well. We hang around with people who are to the “right” of us and the “left” of us. So, where do we fit? What’s our “label?” With which community to we belong? That was the question that Eeees asked me yesterday.

I responded to her that you don’t have to buy the whole package from any one group. You can take some elements that you like from the Yeshivish mehalech, and some elements from the Modern Orthodox mehalech and some elements from other mehalchim and synthesize them into your own mehalech. There is no one, I told her (apart from some Chareidim) that say that you have to take the entire package of any one group and live by it. Feel free to borrow from here or from there. Sure, you may not end up fitting neatly into one of the “labels” but who cares? People don’t (or shouldn’t) live their lives to fit into a label — they should live their lives according to the values, ideals and mores that they hold dear and wish to live by. And that’s actually how we’ve been living our lives for the last sixteen years, taking a bit from here and a bit from there to form our own whole. Maybe we should start a new mehalech called “Wolfish?”

It’s very interesting living in-between the different communities. We have a television in our house (and yes, it’s in the living room — not hidden away in our bedroom or in a closet). We go out to movies. I’m a firm believer in higher education (read: college) and critical thinking. I’m a firm believer in encouraging children to ask questions, not stifling them. If you’re a regular reader of my blog, then you know my position on many matters regarding Judaism today. I’m very open about who I am and what I believe.

And yet, Eeees covers her hair — not because of societal pressure, but because she believes that it’s the right thing to do. I learn every day, not because I think it’s an interesting intellectual pursuit or because I think that the learning police are going to catch me if I don’t — I do it because I think it’s the right thing to do. I don’t have secular music at a seudas mitzvah not because I don’t like secular music, but because I think that, for me, it doesn’t have a place at a seudas mitzvah. I monitor which television shows my kids watch, what movies they see and what internet sites they visit, because I think it’s the right thing to do. (As an aside, George won a Simpsons blow up doll by the Bar Mitzvah. The DJ asked him who he likes better, Bart or Homer. Eeees and I were laughing because we knew that he had no idea who either of them were — we don’t let our twelve year old watch The Simpsons.) We have some definite ideas about what is considered tznius and how a young girl should act. We have rules on how we feel that our sons, as B’nei Torah should act, both in the Bein Adam LaMakom and Bein Adam L’Chaveiro categories. We have standards of kashrus that the kids know that they can’t eat in certain places, even if they are labeled as kosher.

So, we’re neither here nor there. But you know what? I’m happy that way.

The Wolf

(And, no — my kids names aren’t George, Walter, et al… they actually only have Hebrew names.)

a lot of us baal tshuvim have no family Mesorah

myfriend

Examples please?

There is no real minhag avos nowadays, almost everything got mixed up. I find it ironic that chassidim hold the inyan of minhag avos very strong but if you go back to the start of what they hold is a minhag you will see someone changing their minhag to hold of the current minhag.

Wolf if one has no mesora, then one has a severe problem going beyond mixing minhagim. The only ones who wouldn’t have mesora are converts or BTs who’s family has been so far away from yiddishkeit that they can’t recall any customs.

Mixing minhagim isn’t beautiful at all. You can be left with basically nothing. Nisht aheen and nisht ahehr. Maintaining minhag avos is a posuk, al titosh toras imecho. Rav Yitzchok Weiss ztzl even paskined that this means not to change the pronunciation of davening from chasidish to litvish or to sfardit.

Wolf if one has no mesora, then one has a severe problem going beyond mixing minhagim. The only ones who wouldn’t have mesora are converts or BTs who’s family has been so far away from yiddishkeit that they can’t recall any customs.

Why is being a BT a “severe problem”?

“BTs who’s family has been so far away from yiddishkeit that they can’t recall any customs.”

B”H this group of yidden is growing larger and larger (the BTs that is).

Wolf – I could have written your post almost verbatim. There have been so many times when I have felt like my family does not fit into any religious “mold.” We are not Yeshivish, but neither are we so very “modern,” either. We are comfortable at all types of simchas, including the one you described, yet I would only want Jewish music at my own simchas (and yes, I listen to secular music). Even your description of your wife covering her hair, is exactly how I feel. I do it because I feel it is right, not because of societal pressure, and not because it is a fashion to do so.

But it is also very hard being that person in that spiritual place, because you can catch a lot of flak from people who expect you to be a certain way because you appear that way at times, (i.e. expect you to have separate seating, when you are perfectly comfortable with mixed), and don’t “get” where you are religiously speaking.

Interesting that a thread about minhagim brought this point out.

Sacrilege, you wrote,

“boys go away to Yeshiva at a young age and learn from Rabbeim and take on the Minhagim of the Yeshiva they belong to. There is nothing wrong with this.”

No, there is something VERY wrong with this. Kvod Av requires us to follow in the derech of our fathers. Including minhagim.

RSRH wrote:

“What happened to establishing and following the minhag hamakom, or the minhag of the kehilla to which you belong? “

That was destroyed in America in the early 19th century. The first five Jewish communities here all followed the Western European Sefardic nusach. Even the Ashkenazic Jews followed it. But then the arrogance of the Ashkenazim caused them to want to break away from the established minhagim. Between 1797 and 1850 dozens of Ashkenazic shuls were established, each with whatever minhagim the organizers felt like establishing.

Every single one of those early Ashkenazic congregations either died out or became non-Orthodox. Every single one. Meanwhile, two of the old Sefardic congregations that preserved their minhagim have been operating continuously for over two centuries as Orthodox synagogues.

Judaism is not about “Doing what feels good.” Minhagim are important. Including family minhagim. Not as important as a d’oraita or a d’rabbanan, but we don’t change minhagim unless we have a really good reason.

Admittedly this is not so simple for BTs and gerim. But that is what rabbis are for, to help out in these things!

Rav Aron Kotler ztzl kept mostly the minhagim of the Vilner Gaon except one. The Vilner Gaon had only 2 matzos at the seder; Rav Aron had 3 matzos. When asked why he answered, because that was the minhag of my father. Charlie you are so right. Tradition is just about all that has kept the Jewish nation alive all these years. And the sad part of American Judaism is that it’s mostly about doing whatever feels good or right. The secular Jews all say that Judaism is so wonderful because it’s flexible, you can do whatever you feel like doing. We know that it isn’t so, Shulchan Orech rules. Plus the accepted minhagim of each community or sect or sector.

From Migrant Soul by Avi Shafran.

a Latin American who became a GER asked an Adom Gadol (cannot check the book for ID is in circualtion)whetheer he should adpot

Nusach Sfard as he had a “feeling” that he was of Anusim descent.

The gadol asked him where he plans to daven on a steady bais and stick to that. ????? ??

Whoever Paskens from a story on a forum is a ???? and is exempt from Mitzvos.

To all those who keep saying you are not allowed or it’s not so pashut to change ones minhag. Please explain how one can keep chassidishe minhagim that were introduced in the 17 and 1800’s. For example nusach ashkenaz was the predominate nusach until chassdim started davening nusach sefard.

so right IMHO The story with Klausenburger Rav ZT”L is irrelevant to this dialogue. I daresay his intent was in more in line with what the Satmar Rav ZT”L told a former talmid who came wearing a grey hat with a pinch. What happened to you? I remember you as a Bachur. You were so neat and now your hat is grey with dust and banged up.

the nice thing about minhagim are that there are so many nice ones to choose from.

Maintaining minhag avos is a posuk, al titosh toras imecho.

Perhaps some people weren’t aware of this posuk in the Torah, when they dumped their minhug.

That’s why you need a Rav. Correct me if I’m wrong, but “al titosh” is not one of the taryag mitzvos, is it?

“you are saying the first one to settle the island establishes minhag hamakom”

If they actually establish a community — and the Western European Sefardim who were the first Jews in America certainly did — the answer is yes. Particularly when those who had different minhagim in the old place all accepted it.

In EY the Vilna Gaon’s talmidim settled there in the late 1700’s were there before the Sefardim, so there minhagim should be minhug EY.

In fact, since Ashkenazim follow the minhagim of EY from the time of the Bais Hamikdash, it is more authentic than non-Ashkenazim.

charlie, how are you going to twist this one with your half-truths?

Metrodriver, I think it is sort of sad that all your examples of minhag are that of chitzonius, and sad that some of our fundamentalist brothers equate a mussar from kesuvim to a d’oraisa.

There is a tshuva in Igros Moshe ztkl, about someone from chassidic ancestors, but with frumkeit skipping the genration before his, i.e., a BT aware that his grandparents or before them were chassidim. Reb Moshe ztkl paskened he should adopt nusach Ashkenaz. I am such a case, and count myself fortunate to have learned by a RY who himself had many unique positions in finely detailed halacha, but very few minhagim.

sorry about the double post. MODs! this is the coffee room– help yourselves.

“Sure, you may not end up fitting neatly into one of the “labels” but who cares? People don’t (or shouldn’t) live their lives to fit into a label — they should live their lives according to the values, ideals and mores that they hold dear and wish to live by.”

Wolf, while I agree and identify with your post, in Eretz Yisroel this does not work. People who don’t fit themselves into a certain mold do not make it there. This is why many Americans have a hard time when they make aliyah. In America they did just fine being who they were and not fitting exactly into any specific group, while in EY they’re completely lost if they can’t slap a label onto themselves. It’s sad, but it’s the truth.

About Minhag Hamakom, this has fallen victim to, among other things, mobility. Prior to the industrial revolution, most people were born, lived and died all in the small radius of their hometowns. Jews were the unfortunate exception with expulsions and other tzoros that mixed things about. From this, we have sfardim with notably askenazic names, and askenazim with notably sfardi names. There were “newly settled islands” that saw mihag switch as inflows became rov minyan. (Amsterdam, Istanbul, and the Glenn Avenue shul in Baltimore, among others.

In EY there is an unsettled dispute as to who rules the roost. There were sfardi communites in EY prior to the arrival of Talmidei HaGRA, and so the Sfardi poskim hold a ger or BT in EY is bound to follow the BY. Counter to this is the fact that late in the Geonic period, the residents of EY were deprived of their one day Rosh Hashana by the Chachmei Provence of early Ashkenaz. At present, chaos reins, and there are batei knesset ( generally dati leumi) where “any nusach goes” depending on the flavor of shatz.