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Are they frowned upon in fum society? For example, my first name is a very modern Israeli Hebrew name and my second name is a traditional Jewish name (from Tanach). When I was in sem, some of the teachers only called me by my second name, my first name not being ‘frum’ enough. Any thoughts?
Use your Jewish name, not modern Hebrew.
(Even the Ivrit language is problematic, but that is another discussion altogether than names.)
Aura, honestly, that’s chutzpah on the teachers part. Does she not call kids by their Yiddish names?
I have a niece who’s name is a modern hebrew name, but also stems from traditional aramaic. People don’t really know the etymology of names very well.
When I was in sem, some of the teachers only called me by my second name, my first name not being ‘frum’ enough.
MeShom Rayiah?
Sem is (IMHO) one of the great destructive forces in Klal Yisroel, for many reasons.
Why would someone WANT to be called by a modern name?
What is wrong with your jewish name?
I can understand that when u r working around non jews for simplicity sake you give them your modern name, but in sem?
R u ashamed of your name? of ur identity?
Aura
Did they “tell” you your name wasn’t frum enough, or are you assuming that’s why they didn’t use your Hebrew name? Unless you know their reason don’t jump to conclusions. Yes names from Tanach have more holiness.
poster its obviously her given name.
Yes names from Tanach have more holiness.
Like the popular names Nimrod, Yishmael and Ezevel 🙂
Vs. The names Gimpel, Yenta and Kloynamus.
I assumed her name was something like NELI (Netzech Yisroel Lo Yishaker).
People have this thing against non-biblical names. I have a yiddish name, and when I was in seminary I had a shabbos “chavayah” at a certain well known family in the Old City. The woman of the house is supposedly a very spiritual person said that she does not like my name because it is yiddish, which is a language of the golus. Go figure!
People have this thing against non-biblical names.
I have a perfectly fine Jewish, Hebrew name that is non-biblical. In fact, now that I think about it, both of my names AND both of my father’s names are perfectly fine Jewish, Hebrew names that are not biblical in nature.
The Wolf
gavra_at_work
By the way I never got how Yishmael became a Jewish name. There is a Rabbi Yishmael Kohen Gadol in the Gemara. If you have an answer please enlighten me. (Or is it because he did Teshuvah at the end of his life?)
By the way I never got how Yishmael became a Jewish name
Pssst… come here… closer…. I’m going to let you in on a little secret. Shhhh! Don’t let anyone else know… they might accuse you of kefira or the like.
OK, here’s the deal. During the time of the second Beis HaMikdash many foreign names became “common.” Our Mishna is full of them. What? You thought Tarphon and Antignous were nice, Jewish names? The history of the Bayis Sheini is full of people who have Greek and/or Roman names. That Yishmael could creep in as a name is not very surprising either.
OK, go back and act normal. Pretend this conversation never happened.
The Wolf
Wolf
My point is specifically Yishmael who was a well known Rasha in the Torah. As far as Rabbi Tarphons name, well I dont know if it was his birth name but Tarfon is Greek for ‘teacher’ so it makes sense. Antigonus, a Greek name meaning “comparable to his father” or “worthy of his father” also is no problem by me. Its Yishmael that bothers me as we know he was clearly a villain in the Torah.
Yishmael did teshuva.
so right
I know at the end of his life, thats what I wrote earlier to GAW. Maybe thats the Teirutz.
I had a classmate whose second name was more “jewish” than his first name. Any teacher who called him by his second name only was simply ignored. It didn’t take long for the teachers to start calling him by his full name.
Parents give children a name for whatever reason THEY choose. Whether it is after someone in the family, someone they loved or they loved the name. NO ONE has the right to disrespect that. If a person likes their name and chooses to use it whether it is their first or middle name, no one has the right to disrespect them and “change” it for them. If a parent gave a child an English name for whatever reason they chose to, and that child was called by that name all their life, only THEY can decide to make the switch to their hebrew/yiddish name and no one else has the right to do so. A teacher can say “you have a lovely Hebrew/yiddish name, may I call you that?” and if the child agrees then thats ok, but if the child says “I’ll think about it or I would prefer if you just call me what everyone else does” then that’s it.
Names are personal and you don’t just take it off and become someone else to please another person.
A close female relative of mine had a teacher who refused to believe that her Hebrew name was, in fact, a name. She called her by a different name all year.
The Wolf
I have a Yiddish name and the Israelis can’t seem to get it. They keep calling me by my middle name. (I’m talking non-frum Israelis. Most of the frum ones have heard of my name and don’t have a problem with it.)
I think it’s terrible not to call somebody the name they want to be called, especially if it is their real name. My name is Michael, but when i was in yeshiva, my rabbis insisted on calling me “Michoel”. That’s not my name, and it’s not even my hebrew name (Yerachmiel). I have a friend named Shawn, and they called him Shloimy. I have another friend named Mark, and another named Rush. They were called Mordachai and Gedalya. It bothered us all greatly. I think Shawn is still scarred. Something must be done. We must get the message out: It is forbidden to call somebody a name that they don’t like.
Tsk Tsk, cluck cluck, hmmmmm, terrible, terrible. I myself experienced some traumatic experiences with this exact issue, but I dont want to go in to it. Far too painful…
haifagirl is a nice name…although some people object to calling me “bombmaniac” 😛
haifagirl-
Yeah, I know what you mean. I have a yiddish name as well- not an uncommon one, and by the way the Israeli’s pronounced it you would think it’s Chinese!
i think Smile E. Face suits me just fine, but none of my teachers will call me taht, actually, i’ve never tried, maybe tomorrow i’ll find out…
The name given by a bris mila/aliya is your hebrew name it doesn’t matter where it originates from. It could be mark and by aliyas you will be called up as mark ben …
how do you think many names that originate from secular sources became jewish names (shprinza which originates from a latin word)
There are so many biblical names that are not ever used. The names of the sons of the shvatim are never given (anyone ever meet someone named Chushim?). Zlaphchad was a tzaddik as were his daughters. With the exception of the occasional Tirzah and rarer yet Noa, their names have disappeared. The subject is a doctoral dissertation waiting to be written.
With the exception of the occasional Tirzah and rarer yet Noa, their names have disappeared.
Not true. My daughter has one of the other three names (and no, I’m not revealing which).
I also, FTR, have a cousin named Noa.
The Wolf
One of the most popular name for baby boys post churban Beis Sheni was ALEXANDER, in honor of Alexander the Great. It is not a new innovation to name after leaders of countries. As a matter of fact, chazal requested all baby boys to be named Alexander as a mode of hakaros hatov.
Names are cultural and personal. In the city of Efrat, you will not find a child named Yoeli, while Williamsburg does not have boys named Yair or Evyatar (both Bibilical names). Mighty difficult to find a Yiddisha name among Sefardic Jews, or an Israeli name among Chassidim. IOW, so what?
Lashon Hakodesh has changed over the years, there is lashon hatorah, lashon tanach, lashon chachomim, lashon hamikreh each initiating new verbs, words and expressions. Be a yid, act like a yid, light up the world in holiness and be proud of whatever is your given name. Reb Moshe Feinstein zt”l ruled against parents who named a child a name that would cause them ‘shame’ in the future, a child must and should love his name.
Noa has become in-style again.
Not true. My daughter has one of the other three names (and no, I’m not revealing which).
And please… no posts about being a horrible parent for “burdening” her with such a name. 🙂 She has done fine with it and, to my knowledge, has never been teased about it once.
The Wolf
I was teased mercilessly over my middle name, Beno, my paternal grandfather’s name, who was martyred in Auschwitz. While I didn’t enjoy the teasing, I never “blamed” the name, rather the morons who poked fun at it. Telling them how he was murdered usually shut people up pretty good.
I think there is a case to be made about parent burdening their children with certain names.
I was at a chasunah once, and as the kesubah was being read, I was having a hard time not laughing (I know, very mature of me)
The kallah’s middle name was ______. I mean come on! Would you want to walk around for eternity with a name like that?
The kallah’s middle name was _______. I mean come on! Would you want to walk around for eternity with a name like that?
Perhaps she’s not embarrassed of her name. My daughter doesn’t hide hers, even though it’s not common at all.
The Wolf
I happen to know the kallah and while it didnt exactly hinder her self confidence in any way, it was something that she was slightly embarrassed of. She told me that she was debating if she should put her second name on her invitation or not. In the end she did, but it was not done without much diliberation
addicted – thats why her parents gave it to her as her 2nd name. good you removed the name. maybe its some city in hungary or something.
addicted:
Its your dear sister. I chapped who you were from the T______ story. LOL!
Yavnerd:
LOL! Thought you don’t post no more? Or is on a different name?????
BUSTED!
I had to retrieve my password, THATS how old it is!
Go check my email, you’ll see it.
Luv ya, see ya @ home.
yavnerd:
Yeah, had to retreive your password on THIS account, not the other one, which is used often.
Mission accomplished! Its been real, folks, enjoy yourselves.
Aura (OP). What I’m going to say should not be taken as judgmental, in any way. But there is a story recounted in the Gemara where Rabbi Meir and one of his companions arrived in a town on Erev Shabbos and they were looking for a trustworthy person to keep their money over Shabbos. When they inquired about his name, he answered, “Kidor”. R. Meir said “I don’t trust a person with such name”. He did not leave his valuables with him. But his friend did. After Shabbat, when the depositor asked for his money (and other valuables) back, he (“Kidor”) denied ever having taken any money from him. The story is much longer and not suitable for this forum. But, the lesson to be taken from this (Again, not being judgmental)is, that sometimes someone’s personality can be judged by their name.
(Again, not being judgmental)is, that sometimes someone’s personality can be judged by their name.
by Rabbi Meir, or someone else who can bring the dead back to life.
someone’s personality can be judged by their name.
Ah, so it’s my name’s fault that I’m such a rotten person? 🙂
The Wolf
My name is Shira and I am not musical, or good with literature. Did my mother make a mistake?
My name is Shira and I am not musical, or good with literature. Did my mother make a mistake?
According to R’ Chaim Kanievsky, yes.
?
You mean you haven’t heard this story yet? Apparently, the Rav has told more than one person named Shira to, “Drop the yud”- i.e. change her name to Sara.
That’s interesting. So if I met him he would call me Sara? I wouldn’t know who he was talking to and probably wouldn’t answer LOL.
Why does he think that?
I have no idea what he would do. But I heard that those who asked for a bracha for a “Shira” were told to change the name.
I know a girl from seminary who has a Lebanese name that sound very similar to a common Hebrew girls name (which doesn’t have roots in Tanach). Her high school teachers and principal called her by that Hebrew name.
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