April 17, 2020 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #1850058CholentBeansParticipant
Everyone focus on the good and stop trying to see if moshiach is coming or not like a BT it it comes it comes if not u still have to be jewishApril 17, 2020 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #1850062ubiquitinParticipant
“This thread wasn’t supposed to be about Gemtrias! can we please stay focused everyone?”
focused on what your OP included 3 debatable points ( 1) We know that the Jewish people had to be in Egyptian slavery under the rule of the pharaoh for 430 years. 2) It is known that our world must exist for 6000 years. This is the deadline for the coming of Moshiach and the onset of Liberation. 3) the last day of 5780 will come on September 18, 2020!)
and combined them to some nonsense
This is not much different than people using gemtaria for all sorts of nonsense (There are gmatrios showing both donald Trump and Barack Obama are moshiach)April 17, 2020 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #1850067FrumroshyeshivaParticipant
why is it that chabadniks became “accepted” onto a site that calls itself the yeshiva world? do the words of Moirainu reb shach zatzal not mean anything? we must hold strong especially in this tekufa lets not hear what they have to say with their דעות כוזבית. all these gematrias sound like chabad ideologies.
everyone should stay safe ad bias hamashiach.
kol tuv.April 17, 2020 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #1850114
RE, the length of the month does not derive from any gematria.April 18, 2020 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #1850216DovidBTParticipant
My source is from what other people were sending around
That’s always a reliable source of information.April 19, 2020 8:25 am at 8:25 am #1850348
I didn’t know that the term “Yeshiva World” denotes exclusion to Chabad Lubavitch – or any Jewish sector for that matter.
Either way, I would expect that, being an accepted CR participant for waaaay longer than you, I would deserve a certain modicum of respect – if not minuscule at the very least.April 19, 2020 10:17 am at 10:17 am #18504145ishParticipant
Moshiach is always coming. That is one of the thirteen principles of faith.April 19, 2020 10:57 am at 10:57 am #1850435
Not sure what’s happening to comments. The length of a month is NOT based on any gematria. I’ve never heard of the gematria you cite, but I can almost guarantee it is no more than 300 years old, and I doubt it’s more than 100 years old. It was made up after the event, and made to fit.
The length of the month goes back at least to the gemara and possibly earlier. We’re told it’s halacha lemoshe misinai, but not all HLMMs are actually that old; there are some that are clearly post-Moshe, so the mere fact that this is called that doesn’t prove it’s really 3300 years old. But whether it was revealed to Moshe at Sinai, or calculated by Chazal based on the Greek and Babylonian astronomers, it was definitely not derived from any gematria.April 26, 2020 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #1853623
Reb Shach had a deep, emotional love for all Jews. If you have any more דעות כוזבות, please share them.April 28, 2020 7:40 am at 7:40 am #1854182yisroellazearParticipant
Rav Shach, Who received his Da’as Torah from the Chazon E’sh, The Brisker Rav, Rav Issur Zalman Meltzer and Rav Aharon Kotler zichronam l’bracha, saw clearly that ChaBaD/ Lubabitch was heading AWAY from traditional Yiddishkiet. As did Maran HaChacham Pe’er Hador, Ha Rishon L’Tzion R Ovidiah Yosepf, as well as HaTazdik,Yisod Olam HaGaon in Torah and Chesed R. Yoel Tannenbaum MiSatmar. (No rebbe or Rosh Yeshivah has ever disagreed with this stand Ha Gaon R. Stienman Z”l and Yibodel l’chiam R Chiam Kainevsky both verbally and in writing has frequently made it clear that all B’Nai Torah should have nothing to do with this sect. “Frum roshyishiva is right.April 28, 2020 8:43 am at 8:43 am #1854232DaMosheParticipant
Defend Chabad: I hope you’re correct, and Mashiach does come this year. I’m just curious, though – if he doesn’t come, what affect will that have on you? Unfortunately, there are times when someone has a deep-seated belief, and when it’s proven wrong, they can throw other beliefs away, or sink into a depression,April 28, 2020 10:22 am at 10:22 am #1854226
Da’as torah is the property of the Torah, not any person. The great people that you mentioned had much personal contact with even assimilated Jews. Rav Shach said Tehillim for the Rebbe when he suffered the stroke. I heard from three major Roshei Yeshiva from the last dor, the whole story of the splits in Agudah. Chabbad was the central issue. None of them mentioned heading away from tradition. What your hinting to, never happened.April 29, 2020 9:40 am at 9:40 am #1854793HBSParticipant
Regarding Chabad and Moshiach, we all hope for Moshiach every day, as one of the Rambam’s 13 Core Beliefs. The only way Chabad would be ‘vindicated’, so to speak, is if Moshiach turns out to be the Lubavitcher Rebbe. (To quote at least one Gadol, let it be the Lubavitcher Rebbe, as long as he comes already…)
Regarding the use of gematrios to prove a point, see the sefer Degel Machnei Efraim (grandson of the Besh”t) Parshas Chukas, on the possuk Al Kein Yomru Hamoshlim. You can use this link: https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=3723&st=&pgnum=155&hilite=.April 30, 2020 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #1855564
“do the words of Moirainu reb shach zatzal not mean anything?”
While I certainly believe that the words of Rav Shach mean something in certain respects, I also believe that the words of the Lubavitcher Rebbe mean something. Additionally, I believe that the words of the Satmar Rebbe, Bobover Rebbe, Belzer Rebbe, Skverer Rebbe, Rav Moshe Feintein Rav Ovadiah Yosef, Rav Mordechai Eliyahu, and Rav Shteinmann, who all greatly respected the Rebbe and his opinions, also mean something.
N0mesorah, ” Rav Shach said Tehillim for the Rebbe when he suffered the stroke.”
What?! where did you hear that?!May 1, 2020 8:06 am at 8:06 am #1855728
The only way Chabad would be ‘vindicated’, so to speak, is if Moshiach turns out to be the Lubavitcher Rebbe.
Not at all. Chabad will be vindicated when Moshiach comes, regardless of who it is. It will be more vindicated when the Rebbe returns to “lead us to meet Moshiach”, as he often put it. And of course if he does turn out to be Moshiach after all it will certainly be vindicated, but that’s completely unnecessary.
Moshiach’s identity is completely unimportant to Chabad. Of course during the Rebbe’s life most of his chassidim thought he would be the one. It seemed completely logical. But even then, had Moshiach come and it was someone else everyone would have been delighted. After his passing the probability of his being Moshiach is obviously lower, but so long as some chance remains most of his chassidim still hold out hope for it. But obviously if it’s someone else they will be just as happy, and will wait for him to return and confirm for them that this person is the real moshiach.
(To quote at least one Gadol, let it be the Lubavitcher Rebbe, as long as he comes already…)
And any Lubavitcher would say let it not be the Rebbe, so long as he comes already.May 1, 2020 8:07 am at 8:07 am #1855729
PS: Techiyas Hameisim will happen in stages, and Lubavitchers are convinced that even if the Rebbe is not Moshiach he will come back in the first wave, together with Moshe and Aharon and other major leaders.May 1, 2020 8:10 am at 8:10 am #1855737
I was present by an argument on this topic. A yungerman, was espousing a very strong view against Chabad and the Rebbe etc. Then an older and very not opinionated member of our bais medrash passed by. He said he was learning in the Mir in E”Y when the Rebbe got sick. It was a well known story, that some bachurim eagerly told Rav Shach about the Rebbe’s stroke. the R”Y was aghast and immediately began saying Tehillim for him. And, he continued to do so until the Rebbe’s petirah.
The yungerman refused to accept the story. He said he would not even ask people who would know. I knew one person who had been in Ponovizh at the time. He confirmed the story. He added that whenever Rav Shach heard about any yid in pain he would say tehillim. A talmid brought his child to the doctor for a sick visit. Anytime he heard of a car accident. israeli soldiers. He added, that if Rav Shach was in his office, he was probably saying tehillim. Over a year later, I met the yungerman. He had been told the same thing.May 1, 2020 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm #1855901HBSParticipant
“Chabad will be vindicated when Moshiach comes, regardless of who it is.”
I think you define vindicate a bit differently than I meant it.
Vindicate: show or prove to be right, reasonable, or justified.
So how will Chabad be vindicated, if it turns out to be, say, R’ Chaim Kanievsky?May 1, 2020 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #1855975
“It will be more vindicated when the Rebbe returns to “lead us to meet Moshiach”, as he often put it.”
Are you kidding me?! The Rebbe referred to his father-in-law as “The Rebbe King Moshiach”
The Rebbe himself expressly stated that the Chabad Rebbe of his respective generation is the Nosi Hador, and the Nosi Hador is the Moshiach Shebdor. The Rebbe also announced during a Farbrengen “Every Chossid believes with Emuna Shelaima that his Rebbe is Moshiach”. The link to that sicha can be found below.
Earlier, someone posted a link to hebrew books so i’m sure YW will allow me to do the same
At the end of se’if 10
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=59237&st=%d7%a6%d7%9e%d7%97+%d7%a6%d7%93%d7%a7&pgnum=276&hilite=d1b4daa1-9bfa-426d-9eef-adbdf68b6e7bMay 1, 2020 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #1855988
No less a person than the Alter Rebbe said that Moshiach will have to be a misnaged, because if he’s a chossid the misnagdim won’t accept him, whereas the chassidim will accept him whoever he is.May 1, 2020 3:28 pm at 3:28 pm #1855987
So how will Chabad be vindicated, if it turns out to be, say, R’ Chaim Kanievsky?
Because it will show that the campaign to convince Hashem to bring Moshiach succeeded. What that person turns out to be is completely irrelevant to that goal.
Indeed the fact that the whole frum world now believes and accepts that Moshiach is a real person, who will come literally at any moment, and that we should be seriously trying to bring that about as soon as possible, means Chabad has already been vindicated. Because not so long ago many people didn’t accept or acknowledge that. That was the essence of the opposition and ridicule to Chabad’s Moshiach campaign. I think most people know the name of the one who mocked Chabad, saying “They think Moshiach is a bosor vodom”. Nowadays nobody would say that.May 1, 2020 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #1855986
” After his passing the probability of his being Moshiach is obviously lower”
Why, may I ask? Perhaps you are not aware of the Gemara in Sanhedrin 98b or Yerushalmi Brachos halachah 5
Or the sefer Yeshuos Meshicho, where the Abarbanel paskens that moshiach is just as likely to come from the dead as if he is to come from the living. Perhaps I should also remind you that, in the sefer Kerem Yisroel, it is written by R’ Yisroel of Ruzhin’s son that we should continue to believe his father to be Moshiach even after his passing.
Perhaps I should also refer you Sdei Chemed maareches 1, os 70May 1, 2020 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #1856014
Google “Moshiach” and this forum is one of the first things that come up. YW coffee room is a nice way to get your message out. Good Shabbos.May 1, 2020 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #1856012
“” After his passing the probability of his being Moshiach is obviously lower”
Why, may I ask?“
Here we go again 🙄May 1, 2020 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #1856009
“ identity is completely unimportant to Chabad. Of course during the Rebbe’s life most of his chassidim thought he would be the one. It seemed completely logical. But even then, had Moshiach come and it was someone else everyone would have been delighted.“
If it was Rav Shach Lubavitchers wouldn’t accept himMay 3, 2020 1:30 pm at 1:30 pm #1856300
“No less a person than the Alter Rebbe said that Moshiach will have to be a misnaged, because if he’s a chossid the misnagdim won’t accept him,”
To shed light on that particular dialogue, I would refer you to the Stump the Rabbi program entitled “How Can We Say That The Rebbe Is Moshiach If The Alter Rebbe Said Moshiach Is A Veltisher?” where rabbi Noam Wagner gives a very reasonable interpretation of that exchange. It is important to note that many of the Rebbeim’s cryptic exchanges were subsequently explained by later Rebbeim. We cannot understand the co-conversations of holy tzaddikim like Chazal say “The mundane talk of the sages contain the deepest secrets” (Sukkah 20b)
There is also a famous story of how the mezritcher maggid once said that Moshiach will come from one of his talmidim but he’s not sure if he will come from his oldest (Alter Rebbe) or his oldest (R’ Nochum of Chernobyl), so the Alter Rebbe made A shidduch beteween his grandson and R’Nochum’s so that Moshiach can come from both of them. Later, when someone else wanted marry this grandson, R’Mottel, who had succeeded his father since then, disagreed and said that the child was already reserved for “The Litvak” as the Alter Rebbe was called at the time.
We can’t understand the Alter Rebbe’s discussions; we could only guess. And these guesses could be quite varying – and conflicting – sometimes.May 3, 2020 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #1856324
Not sure if that post is in reference to mineMay 3, 2020 5:57 pm at 5:57 pm #1856435
No, it was for milhouse.
Correction: the mezritcher maggid wasn’t sure if Moshiach wold come from his *youngest (Alter Rebbe) or oldest (R’Nochum Chernobyl)May 6, 2020 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #1857933
“DC, I’ll write to you, bli neder, in a few weeks or whenever you say. I will be writing that you once again have proven yourself to be a fool.”
Following is a transcript of an interview between ChabadInfo and d. Zev Zelenko.
How do you see this situation from the perspective of a Lubavitcher Chossid?
“It is clear to me that Moshiach is arriving imminently for two reasons:
1) If I would’ve told you a few months ago that right before Moshiach comes, we will all be taken out of our regular lives and put in a completely different situation which is totally out of our comfort zones, it would be hard to believe me. Now, if I tell you that, you will believe me.
2) Very simply, the Gematria of Corona in Lashon Hakodesh is Moshiach Bo” —
Perhaps Dr. Zelenko is also a fool?June 8, 2020 8:20 am at 8:20 am #1869016asimpleyidParticipant
no its just a realization that “moshiach hype” can often be more detrimental than not. hes not a fool, hes a good doctor but that doesnt all of a sudden make any sort of daas Torah or any authority on the matter. if you want to read an article that explains this point very well (i hope ywn will let me post it), read this article written by Rav Aharon Lopiansky shlit”a
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