March 13, 2012 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #602465
Is the name Batsheva sometimes given to the seventh child who happens to be a girl, even if there are some boys among the first six children, or does the name tend to be given when a person k’h has his 7th girl, which might be his 10th or 12th child?
Also, shouldn’t an Ashkenazi use the name “Bassheva”, as opposed to the Sephardic Batsheva?March 13, 2012 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #859640yitayningwutParticipant
Also, shouldn’t an Ashkenazi use the name “Bassheva”, as opposed to the Sephardic Batsheva?
They do, as far as I know (though I suppose it depends on how “modern” you are).March 14, 2012 12:47 am at 12:47 am #859641postalMember
Is Bassheva one word or two?March 14, 2012 1:40 am at 1:40 am #859642
According to the compendium of names at end of Chapter 129 in Eben ho’Ezer, Bas Sheva is spelled as 2 words.
Both Bas Sheva & Bat Sheva are spelled the same way in Hebrew, so this entire question of which name to utilize, is a mute point.
If you wish to strictly adhere to Ashkenazic pronouciation, here are some quandries which I have:-
Why do Ashkenazim pronounce Ezra & not Ezro?
Why do Ashkenazim pronounce Hadassah & not Hadassoh?
Who invented Nochum, since Nachum is written with a Patach?
Who invented Yeruchom, when 1st verse in Haftoro of 1st day of R’H calls him Yerauchom?
Who invented Yerachmiel, when name is Yerachme’el?
As far as 1st question, if there is prcedent to utilize name of Bas Sheva for 7th child or 7th daughter:- There is only 1 prcedent:- Utilize a name which both Dad & Mum like, and find pleasant; & if Elisheva is more your taste, this works just fine.March 14, 2012 2:56 am at 2:56 am #859643tzaddiqMember
what is the significance of the ‘seventh’ daughter, as opposed to the other daughters, that there is a special name specifically for her (what about Bas Sheysh for the sixth or Bas Chameish for the fifth daughter, etc.)?March 14, 2012 3:00 am at 3:00 am #859644
We don’t coin new names. ………. Bas Sheva is already an extant name in Nach.March 14, 2012 3:02 am at 3:02 am #859645
I never heard an Ashkenaz called Bassheva. It always seems to be Batsheva.March 14, 2012 3:14 am at 3:14 am #859646chofetzchaimMember
I know a family who named their first daughter Rishona.March 14, 2012 3:34 am at 3:34 am #859647ItcheSrulikMember
1) Because diqdhuq could be an Elvish word made up by Tolkein for all most people care about it.
3) Somewhere along the line it was decided that a kamatz is somehow more frum.
4) The Yeruchom we name after is not that Yeruchom. Ours is the masculine form of Hoshea’s wife’s (daughter? I forget) name. (OK, I made that one up)
5) Sh’va na can easily become a chirik with the right (wrong) accent.March 14, 2012 3:43 am at 3:43 am #859648ambushParticipant
Rishona? Are you serious??March 14, 2012 4:07 am at 4:07 am #859649KIsh Echad BLev EchadMember
@ ambush- Of course it’s serious. They ended up naming their last child Acharon, but the other kids ended up disliking Acharon because, as they said, “Why is Acharon, Acharon always chaviv???”March 14, 2012 12:55 pm at 12:55 pm #859650Shticky GuyParticipant
You can call your daughter bas/bat sheva wherever she comes in the family, though i’d much rather my daughter to be called bas talmid chacham…March 14, 2012 3:45 pm at 3:45 pm #859651A Heimishe MomParticipant
Using Bat/Bas Sheva (or Elisheva) for a 7th girl or 7th child who is a girl is purely a cutesy thing to do. As is naming your first Rishona (and yes, I do know a Rishona who is the first).
As to the one word vs two words: It technically, as per proper dikduk and usage in Navi, should be either two words or one hyphenated word. However, common convention spells it as one word.
As to the Bat vs Bas – as far as dikduk, not sure when it is, but it might actually be Bat in certain scenarios. But in general, most Ashkinazim resort to the Bat for convention’s sake.March 14, 2012 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #859652
Like Ben-Tzion is two words.March 14, 2012 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #859653bptParticipant
Leah had her 7th but chose to go with Dina instead of Batshevah. Why not follow her lead?March 14, 2012 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #859654A Heimishe MomParticipant
Gabie: in Hebrew everyone does spell Ben/Bat Tzion as two words. In English, however, its one word, and Bat rather than Bas – even by Ashkenazim. As a mentioned, convention does play a very big role here. For some reason Batsheva is just not usually split. (I DID look into it so I am not talking out of my head.)March 14, 2012 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #859655
Bat Tzion?? I never heard of a name other than Ben-Tzion. And I have seen it spelled as two words in English.March 14, 2012 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #859656Sam2Participant
AHM: There would never be a Dagesh in the Taf in Batsheva. Honestly, I would guess that people name their kids Batsheva instead of Bassheva because it’s easier to say. It’s hard to get out a “sh” sound right after an “s”. It’s much easier after a “t”.March 14, 2012 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #859657
According to the Medrash that each of the tribes was born with a twin sister, and Benjamin with 2 triplet sisters, Leah would have no reason to name her daughter Bas Sheva, rather than Dinoh, her birth being way after 7 children.
But then, Dinoh would have been the 7th daughter, which brings us back to the 1st paragraph in this coffee room discussion.
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