No More!

If you read the story, you would have seen that IDF regulations of course permit peyos and they were not compelled by policy to have them cut, but, if the report is accurate, by one rosho who should be kicked out of the army.

As I wrote in the comments below the story, it is a terrible irony that if these recruits had any familiarity with tzahal and bakum, like those, for example, learning in hesder yeshivos do, they would have been familiar enough to know its NOT IDF policy. What a ashame they didn’t have the kind of guidance that would have made such knowledge obvious, as it is to the rest of the religious Jews in the IDF.

Actually Toi, you are the one with your head in the sand and so are the recruits who allowed their peyos to be cut. I don’t live in Israel but just from my occasional visits there, I can say I have seen numerous soldiers in uniform with nice long peyos.

Yes – my agenda is that young Jews should not be pawns for anyone, and that they should have all the information they need to make informed decisions.

Their parents, their rebbes, their chevre should not keep them so cloistered that when they make the admirable decision to go into the IDF, they are unaware of their rights and the army’s responsibilities.

When I was much younger, I seriously considered aliyah and service as a chayal boded. This was before the internet. I sought and found the information and resources I needed to know what benefits I was eligible for, what my responsibilities were, down to the extra 25 shekel a month for overseas phone calls. And I didn’t actually do it, and at the time I was not in EY. These boys live there, made the good decision to go, and had access to information in a manner more instant than I could have imagined at their age.

These young men were doubly vicitimized. They were victimized by the either wicked or idiotic barber and the barber’s CO, and they were victimized by too many people they depended on for guidance who encouraged ignorance of too many practical things.

Perhaps instead of complaining that the army will force frum teens off the derech, time should be spent preparing them for the trials they will face instead of hiding them from the real world.

Just a thought.

Toi: I understand your Tayna. Here’s my question: Will you make another thread in defense of the IDF when (if this is proven true) the commander who made them do this is put in jail/fined for his actions?

To those who claim that this story shows how important it is that chareidim start a hesder program, look at what is happening.

The first step is that chareidim boys need to leave the koslei haMidrash for X amount of years altogether.

The second step is that once you are machriach them to go into the army, now you scratch off a little more learning from the years before the army in order to train the bochrim on how to go to the army.

The first two steps on the short path to shmad. Only took a few months.

Of course that doesn’t include the dangers of the “mistakes” that happen in the army. Whoops we cut off some peyos. Whoops we forced some bochrim to listen to kol ishah.

You should know that armies have rules. In most armies of the western world, there is a rule that hair has to be a certain length and beards are a no-no. This is the rule in the United States as well- would you call the U.S. army comparable to the nazis chas v’sholom?!

In the United States, there have been a string of court cases about religious muslims and sikhs that want to keep their beards and most of the time they get to. However, it takes time to change the army’s rules. I hope Israel will change the rules, but you have to be patient. You cannot barge in and expect everyone to do everything you want at the moment you want it. What chutzpah.

Among the Dati Leumi, the IDF itself helps to prevent situations like these by allowing draft-age men to enroll in mechinot. The men reach the induction base knowing the rules and how to snip violations in the bud. They also have access to a vast body of halachic literature on coping with army situations.

rationalfrummie- you miss the point.

Exactly.

Toi: Thank you. But I’m not in the mood to argue with someone being “irrational” right now. The differences between those examples are huge and obvious. If Rational cares to discuss it, rational should point them out the huge differences and explain why they don’t make a difference. Then if I think there is any rational thought there, I’ll consider responding.