April 16, 2013 1:38 am at 1:38 am #609020
Off of Vogue’s post(thanks!), here’s a different kind of question.
I’m part way through college, and ready to quit. The environment, the pressure, the amount of homework that leaves me with no life… it’s gotten to be too much.
Will I regret leaving? yes, i’m sure when I need the income i will. And what a waste of the time and money spent already. For nothing?
Will I regret staying? yes, for today and tomorrow and every day of school, and for my ruchniyus.
Yes, this is something I will be/am discussing with my parents and mentors. But i’m looking for ideas, advice, help from the cr. anyone?April 16, 2013 2:17 am at 2:17 am #947142yetelzMember
college is overrated and if your ruchniyus is suffering, as you said it is, that is definitely a reason to do your histadlus somewhere else.April 16, 2013 2:23 am at 2:23 am #947143
Saysme- You’re a lucid as they come. Praiseworthy.April 16, 2013 2:30 am at 2:30 am #947144
If you may crack under pressure, crack the pressure first. It is easy, because the pressure already pressurized.
a pearl of my wisdom.April 16, 2013 2:35 am at 2:35 am #947145Yserbius123Participant
How is your ruchniyus suffering? Do you think that the problems in ruchniyus now are worse than the problems in ruchniyus you may face down the line when you have several mouths to feed and possibly very little income?
Perhaps you should look into a part time college or night courses, where you won’t have as much exposure to the atmosphere. As for the amount of homework and the pressure, what sort of “no life” does it leave you with? Are you missing out on all of your sedarim? If so, you definitely need to cut back on your course schedule. There is absolutely no reason why an undergraduate cannot learn at least four hours a day without interruption.April 16, 2013 2:43 am at 2:43 am #947146
Which college?April 16, 2013 2:46 am at 2:46 am #947147
talmud-thank you? how do you crack pressure? 🙂
yserbius- its suffering, and i see i’ve changed negatively already. Is it worse now than it could be with little income- who knows? does that matter? Is it okay for someone to let their ruchniyus suffer now to prevent possible struggles in the future? i doubt it. night courses arent available in my major, part time is doable if i want to be in school for that many more years :P. I’ll take it as a compliment, but i ain’t a guy :), no sedarim for me! But if i was, no, i wouldn’t have been able to learn 4 hours a day every day without interruption.April 16, 2013 2:47 am at 2:47 am #947148
wiy- not touroApril 16, 2013 2:53 am at 2:53 am #947149
Duh I figured. Which one if you don’t mind.April 16, 2013 2:54 am at 2:54 am #947150
“how do you crack pressure?”
you throw it under the bus
a) just make sure to consult w/ ur mentors (u already said that, so whatever)
b) make sure you fully trust your mentors for their guidance so that you don’t regret their advice down the road.April 16, 2013 3:06 am at 3:06 am #947151
How much longer until you get your degree?April 16, 2013 3:38 am at 3:38 am #947152
It’s good that you are aware of the situation and trying to take matters into your own hands. I will say that one of the above posters is dead wrong about college being overrated. I would like him to back up his idiotic statement. I went to college, and my husband did. I’m 24, not like it was ages ago and things are different. My husband went to touro with men only. He has friends who decided they didn’t need college because its overrated. One is married with a baby and just moved back in with his in laws. One works 3 part time jobs. So many are on gov assistance and being supported by their parents, not because they agreed upon it and are learning, but because their garbage jobs don’t pay the bills. Stay on school but be realistic with what you can handle. Switch schools if need be, take a course or 2 online if you can, talk with your parents and mentors and see what the best options are.April 16, 2013 3:45 am at 3:45 am #947153
wiy- i do, sorry
talmud- i regretted ignoring my mentors’ advice and listening to someone else and going to college 🙂
DY- 1.5 years to BA
MorahRach- i actually also think it’s overrated in some ways :). but not in the sense you’re saying. Overrated for those who get a BA and think that will help them get better pay when they take an unrelated job. The student loans and tuition alone sometimes can be the killer for people. Many girls take the short courses like graphic design with a BA then are shocked to find the market is flooded and they can’t get a job. Or to discover that a nursery assistant often gets paid more than their office job…April 16, 2013 3:46 am at 3:46 am #947154
No more pencils
no more books
no more teachers dirty looksApril 16, 2013 3:55 am at 3:55 am #947155charliehallParticipant
Is it the homework or the non-frum environment? If it is the homework, get used to working hard — for the rest of your life. If it is the non-frum environment, consider changing colleges — but remember that almost all of us will be working in non-frum environments for most of our lives, so eventually we have to deal with it.April 16, 2013 3:56 am at 3:56 am #947156commonsenseParticipant
Says me, your credits are good forever. You don’t have to finish in a certain time. If it is really negatively impacting your ruchniyus you can take a break, or slow down the pace and take less courses or even change majors or colleges. If I told you how many years it took me to get my ba you’d roll on the floor laughing but I now have a masters and work in my field.April 16, 2013 4:12 am at 4:12 am #947157
SaysMe, it’s really not easy to advise someone to quit with “only” a year and a half left to a degree from a “real” school. I would likely advise you to stick it out if it were only a question if the work, the time, and even the pressure.
However, the ruchniyus issue is a different matter. I don’t know the situation, and I don’t know you, so on this you really do need your mentors’ input. Try to work out some way of getting through this intact; shiurim, Partners in Torah (even better as a mentor), books, etc. Run some ideas past your mentors, and see what they think.
Another thought; will your current school accept any online or Touro credits so that you can minimize your time in campus? Or are you already maxed out on Sem credits?
Hatzlachah!April 16, 2013 4:16 am at 4:16 am #947158sw33tMember
charliehall literally said everything I was thinking.
i switching isnt an option maybe find out about shiurim/jewish classes/emet.. to get more involved in??April 16, 2013 4:26 am at 4:26 am #947159
It would be beneficial if people knew which college it was so we could know to avoid it and recommend others to avoid it. Not sure why you wouldn’t say the name unless you think saying the name would somehow divulge your identity. If it won’t please share the name of the college for our benefit. Thanks.April 16, 2013 4:30 am at 4:30 am #947160mercuryMember
saysme, you never know what life will bring you. and parnassah comes from Hashem not a college degree. a college degree is only your hishtadlus in achieving income but it doesnt cause you to have one. i went to college and graduated with a degree in dental hygiene. i also majored in psychology and made the deans list for 4 years in a row. ive been out of school for a year and with all my effort i still havent found work and i have 16,000 dollars worth of loans to pay back. my husband quit college as well. for different reasons then you but he had his own reasoning. he isnt working either. he has no degree or experiene so its hard for him to find work. and since he quit school hes never been the same. his lack of focus has taken a huge toll on him emotionally which in turn effected his ruchnious as well. my sister in law graduated from NYU nursing school more then 10 years ago but she never used her degree. shes instead a stay at home mom and loves it. my point is like this. if you decide to quit school theres no reason to regret it. you can always go back. just make sure if you do quit, you have to have a focus. because as ive seen first hand, not having one can effect you in the same ways you thought you were trying to avoid in the first place. good luck!April 16, 2013 5:12 am at 5:12 am #947161
WIY- give it up, pounder.April 16, 2013 6:09 am at 6:09 am #947162
thanks all. i think i’m just hoping hashing this out and hearing people will show me where i’m really leaning. it’s really helpful to have a wide forum.
charliehall- so your answer to any struggle is gird your loins and deal with it? i know what hard work is. and i’ve been in college for 3 years. And i’ve been in the non-frum environment in other circumstances, like for work. Schooling doesn’t compare
commonsense- it’s actually encouraging to hear people have done that successfully! Perhaps a break would give me perspective too…
DY- i don’t know (or remember) if you frequented the poetry thread, but the pressure is intense. if I do stay, it will still need adjustment, and probably a much lighter load (=more time), cuz i will crack.
As far as other credits, they will accept some, but the majority of the credits I need are in my major, so not really available elsewhere that they’d accept.
-and sw33t- I do attend shiurim when i can find time (and evenwhen i can’t. one on one is not my thing. I have discussed this thoroughly with mentors, but will again. the lack of time was again an issue for any regular chesed opportunities.
wiy- I’m a sensitive soul. Doesn’t mean others would be affected like i was. I know some girls who did it at this school, and were totally fine with it, and others who advised me on which classes to not take. and still won’t say where-yes it will help identify me.
talmud- thanks for the backing!
mercury- you’ve got my arguments. My father disagrees. My sister also has a degree and chose to be a stay at home mother. But to play devil’s advocate, if the need came, she’d have a better chance at a higher paying job.
Good for you with your schooling! and i hope you find a job very soon, and get rid of those loans quick.
your points are really good and helpful, thank you. You’re right, i can always go back at a later point, even though it might be harder practically then. And focus, it’s so so true. how long would i be content doing small office jobs, and what will i hope to do short term and long term if i quit.
DY- it’s the debate about the usefulness of a BA. Is there any benefit?? Originally i planned on going straight through to my masters, so I could actually have something to do with my schooling, full education, ability and training in the profession i chose, or a better chance at a related field. but that brings schooling back up to 3+ more years to go.
Can anyone tell me? What does a BA alone do for me? besides being able to write it on a resume.April 16, 2013 7:42 am at 7:42 am #947163frumnotyeshivishParticipant
Saysme, it sounds like you once had plans, and now aren’t sure.
Don’t go to college to find yourself.
Find yourself, and see if you’re in college.April 16, 2013 11:25 am at 11:25 am #947164
I am not a navi, But for those who say “Hashem will provide” I can pretty much gurantee you will not be getting a job as a Brain Surgeon without a medical degree.
Many good jobs will not let you in the door without a degree. its true you might not use the degree, but without experience you need something to open the door and the degree is it. You need that BA to get the door Ajar so you can get it.
And to play devils advocates lets take worse case scenerios. Once you get the degree you always have it , it never goes away. maybe today you dont need it, but you never know about tommorrow and many jobs give you pay increases with degreesApril 16, 2013 11:52 am at 11:52 am #947165squeakParticipant
Don’t ignore the value of being able to write it in the resume. While you may not need the BA to do your chosen job, you may find you need one to get your chosen job. Many employers view a degree as a stepping stone, rite of passage into the career, or what have you.April 16, 2013 12:01 pm at 12:01 pm #947166Torah613TorahParticipant
It’s a very difficult decision.
This is why Touro is so amazing. I can’t even imagine being in the atmosphere I am now for 3 years of basic courses, dealing with the whims of each instructor, without a social group. So I empathize with your struggles.
On the other hand, it sounds like you’re halfway through, which is honestly the hardest time to pull out. You already likely have a considerable financial investment, so besides for losing future income, you have probably depleted your savings somewhat. Besides, you REALLY don’t want to have to repeat all the courses you’ve taken in the future.
If you’re pushing yourself for As, then I would consider accepting Cs and just focus on finishing the degree with minimal work. In the end, all that counts is the paper, and you can always do other stuff for grad school. Also, take summer classes so you can finish it ASAP.
At the same time, get involved in the community. Go to shiurim, do chesed, etc. It will help immunize you to ruchnius issues.
So that’s my advice. Stay in school and finish your BA, but take the pressure off yourself, and work on increasing your social connections in the Jewish world. You can take it or leave it 🙂April 16, 2013 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #947167Veltz MeshugenerMember
Oh, yeah, Zahavas dad? WELL WHAT ABOUT FRANK ABIGNALE!?!?!?April 16, 2013 12:37 pm at 12:37 pm #947168
I am not a navi, But for those who say “Hashem will provide” I can pretty much gurantee you will not be getting a job as a Brain Surgeon without a medical degree.
Hashem will provide. Among the people I know, some of the most successful have no college degree. There are much better ways to earn a living and support a family than being a brain surgeon. The quality of life for brain surgeons is only slightly worse than for prisoners in Guantanamo Bay.April 16, 2013 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #947169Torah613TorahParticipant
I doubt SaysMe is considering becoming a brain surgeon. The fact is, if someone wants to have a desk job and be a wife and mother, it is far easier to do so with a college degree. The higher the better, but a BA is minimal.April 16, 2013 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #947170TheGoqParticipant
Careful WIY you are not allowed to ask for personal info please read the sticky, rules of the coffee room.April 16, 2013 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #947171
I would agree about the grades, unless you are going to grad school you really dont need A’sApril 16, 2013 1:59 pm at 1:59 pm #947172
I specifically said that she should only tell me if it won’t reveal personal info. Thanks for only reading half of what I wrote. I’m quite aware of the rules.April 16, 2013 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #947173
SaysMe- college does help people get jobs, but it’s only one factor in the overall picture. None of my parents have college degrees, and they get paid more than many of their colleagues that do have degrees. They have brains, and that’s what everyone wants. My mother even does government work sometimes.April 16, 2013 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #947174
There are plenty of people with no degrees who make good money and there are plenty of people with a degree who dont make any money
However if you take 1000 people. More of the ones with a degree will be making more money than ones who dontApril 16, 2013 3:04 pm at 3:04 pm #947175just my hapenceParticipant
Gamanit – “none of my parents” – you have more than two?!April 16, 2013 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #947176
I think that’s mainly because in the secular world college is considered a must. Therefore the really smart people end up with a college degree. Ultimately, the companies pay for brains, but being as most smart people go to college they only look at college grads. My parents are b”h successful because they have a very good reputation, and everyone knows that they are good in their field and trustworthy not to clock more hours than they’re doing. If SaysMe is willing to work hard to get a reputation through work experience she can take college easy and go slow.April 16, 2013 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #947177
just my hapence- I meant to say that neither my mother nor my father has even a bachelors degree. My father actually doesn’t even have a high school diploma.April 16, 2013 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #947178just my hapenceParticipant
Gamanit – I was being facetious…April 16, 2013 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #947179
Just put you have a college degree on your resume even if you don’t. It is almost never checked by companies when applying for a job. Many high execs did it and once in a blue moon it gets in the news on rare occasion when they get promoted and it causes a hitch. But this is after many decades of being paid through the nose due to claiming the degree.April 16, 2013 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #947180
Popa and the like. When you say the most successful people you know don’t have degrees, which I find hard to believe, how old are they? Times have changed. It is near impossible to get decent-high paying jobs without at least a BA. Nurses, teachers, OT, PT, social worker, counselor, therapist, MD, NP, PA these are all jobs that require more than just a BA. Even secretarial jobs prefer undergrad studies. Don’t steer her in the wrong direction!April 16, 2013 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #947181
MR: Of course someone should use all the information at their disposal in making a decision, and anecdotes on websites are not very good information of the general trends.
In any event: how old? 28.April 16, 2013 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #947182
If one is getting stressed out over college, how will it be handled in the real world like when a client demands something in 24 hours or you will lose the account.
You need to learn how to handle stress betterApril 16, 2013 3:37 pm at 3:37 pm #947183
MorahRach- it does depend a lot on which field you want to go into. My parents are computer programmers, and college degrees don’t help so much as the field is always evolving. My parents spend a minimum of two hours a week keeping up with the latest updates. My sister on the other hand doesn’t want to be a programmer and is in college for a totally different field of study, where college does help.April 16, 2013 3:37 pm at 3:37 pm #947184yytzParticipant
Swiet, are you serious? Everyone should ensure their resume is 100% honest and accurate. Although telling less than the whole truth is sometimes allowed under halacha in specific situations, I’m sure lying on a resume to try to get a job does not fall within any of the exceptions of our obligation to be truthful. “Distance yourself from falsehood.”April 16, 2013 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #947185
Swiet, you are advocating lying on ones resume? First of all that is morally and ethically wrong and anyone who would do that is of poor character. Secondly, what if said person lies and does get caught, what are the chances of them being hired again by a reputable organization?April 16, 2013 4:19 pm at 4:19 pm #947186
Oh, no, not again!April 16, 2013 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #947187
MorahRach: What’s the biggie? Worse comes to worse you lose the job. But meanwhile you had a job for X number of years that you wouldn’t have had if you didn’t touch up the resume. As far as applying for your next job, they’ll never know about it. Firstly, companies are typically petrified to tell another perspective employer any negative info (usually they’ll only confirm name, title and length of service). But if it is a problem, you can always leave that job off your resume. (Fill it with something else.)April 16, 2013 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #947188
Please give us a Posek who says its fine to lie on a resumeApril 16, 2013 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #947189yytzParticipant
What’s the biggie?! It’s an aveira. That’s a big deal.
Plus, in order to do teshuvah and gain atonement, Yom Kippur wouldn’t do it — you’d probably have to confess to the person who hired you and get them to forgive you.
I don’t believe this….April 16, 2013 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #947190
I’m talking about applying for a national/international company not a heimishe one. So your point about YK and forgiveness is incorrect in this case.
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