non-jewish music

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  • This topic contains 94 replies, has 36 voices, and was last updated by  HaKatan 8 years ago.
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  • #595140

    shuli
    Participant

    so why is everyone so against goyish music? please fill me in…thank you

    #779952

    ARE U KIDDING??!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

    becaus its innapropriate

    #779953

    deiyezooger
    Member

    sure it’s only a huge joke. we want to hear your comments.lol!

    #779954

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    so why is everyone so against goyish music? please fill me in…thank you

    The objection people have to the lyrics should be obvious. The objection to the music itself is more subtle, but, to simplify, I’ll just point out that music is very powerful. It can bring various emotions, feelings, and attitudes. These can be inspiring, or c”v damaging to the neshama. Secular music to often is the latter.

    #779955

    cb1
    Member

    ARE U KIDDING??!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

    u took the words right out my mouth!

    #779956

    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Ratio of sechel:shreiking == 3:1.

    #779957

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Ratio of sechel:shreiking == 3:1.

    Only one shriek?

    #779958

    Ad Dilo Yada
    Participant

    The message in a song shows the emotions of the one that wrote the song, most of the time it’s not necessarily a message that can be good/harmful for a ???.

    ^Ad Dilo Yada^

    #779959

    ItcheSrulik
    Member

    Sorry, shreiking:sechel. I didn’t end up sleeping shabbos afternoon.

    #779960

    neek
    Member

    i also want to know- what is wrong with non jewish music. im a girl, why cant i listen to it? its not like im a dude who cant hear girls singing?!

    and im not listening to inapropriate music! they are really nice songs, slow ones, that have nice words- for example, “dont give up when things are not going well…” idk! just simple things that nothing is wrong with it!!!!!

    #779961

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    and im not listening to inapropriate music!

    What are you listening to?

    #779962

    neek
    Member

    you dont sound like the type, that if i DO tell you what im listening to, you would no what im talkin bout, so i dont see a point in saying.

    #779963

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I am highly unconvinced by the knee jerk reaction to assur all non jewish music.

    I understand the objection to the lyrics of many songs, and I can see how there could be an objection to some beats.

    But I don’t really see why it should all be considered all bad.

    #779964

    mw13
    Participant

    neek: Halachicly, I do not believe there is anything wrong with a girl listening to non-jewsih to music. It’s just a question of hashkafa.

    #779965

    neek
    Member

    i agree with popa bear

    #779966

    EzratHashem
    Member

    Apart from private listening, people often listen to music in groups, in public. What type of place will you go if you want to listen to non-Jewish music in a group? The answers to that question are usually not any place a frum person belongs.

    #779967

    frim
    Member

    same problem… once you start tooo hard to stop

    #779968

    The Mishne Beurah in Shaar Hatziun (560 note 25) quotes the Shelo who says mothers should not sing their baby to sleep with non-Jewish music since it creates a bad nature in the child

    #779969

    cshapiro
    Member

    so what about in the gym, if they blast non jewish music in the classes can you still take them?

    what if the songs have no words is it okay?

    #779970

    at the end of the day, goyish songs have a better beat and no matter how hard the jewish singers try to immitate the quality of the goyish niggunim, it just doesnt work so just stop trying.

    also i find it disgusting when they sing holy words to meisdikka niggunim.

    #779971

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    neek: Halachicly, I do not believe there is anything wrong with a girl listening to non-jewsih to music.

    Sure there is, although there are more issurim for a man.

    #779972

    mw13
    Participant

    Daas Yochid, care to elaborate? What issurim are there?

    #779973

    rebbitzen
    Member

    goyish music comes from a non holy place. not all jewish music comes from the neshama, but atleast some does.

    #779974

    its_me
    Member

    shuli, you asked about goyishe music. go to shofar (r amnon yitzchak’s website) if you really want to know the answer. and for everyone else, go there to see how jewish music today is basically the same. and here is a thread where we spoke about the subject http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/will-rav-amnon-yitzchak-manage-to-change-the-music-industry

    #779975

    ZachKessin
    Member

    You know instead of just shouting at the original poster, try giving a polite and reasoned response, maybe he (she) doesn’t know and wants to know? One of the best way to turn people of yiddishkite is to shout at them over simple questions like this one.

    #779976

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Here we go again! There i no such thing as ” Jewish” music. Our music is adopted from the culture in which we lived. A Jew from Bucharia , hearing our Eastern European based music might consider it goyish. Songs that are considered Jewish music today could very well have been taken from non-Jewish melodies that noone today remembers and current songs taken from non-Jewish music will be considered Jewish by the next generation

    #779977

    mdd
    Member

    I heard that Yomim Noraim niggunim are from the time of the Beis ha’Mikdash. Otherwise, what the very Yeshivish olam considers to be Jewish music comes from Eastern Europe. It is true, however, that it is more eidel than the current American music, and more pleasant than the Arabic one (baying at the moon).

    #779978

    BS”D

    What matters are the words. Yom Tov Ehrlich AH did not compose a single song and every street musician in Moscow used to play half the tunes he used for his songs because they are old Russian folk tunes. His niece Rebbetzin Dina Storch (Kaluzhoweveryouspellhermaidenname) used old American tunes for Someday and Daddy Dear.

    On the other hand, we also have composers like Reb Chaim Banet, the Belzer baalei menagen, Reb Yankel Talmid AH (Ger) and Reb Moishe Goldman AH who sadly left us far too soon about a year ago IIRC, who may have used themes from Eastern Europe but their music has a true Yiddishe taam. Interestingly enough, the famous Habibi (not Shwekey’s but the more common one) seems to have been composed for both the words we know and secular lyrics simultaneously. Most of the other tunes from the Middle East and North Africa come from the popular music of the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s, before the complete end of Jewish life in that part of the world.

    And some of those secular tunes were composed or made popular by Jews, like Salim Halali, the Bob Dylan of Morocco, or Samy El-Maghribi (real name Salomon Shlomo Amzalag, also left us within the past 2 or 3 years) a perfectly kosher Jew who was a hazzan in Montreal after a long career as a popular performer in Morocco and Paris. Today in Morocco there is a popular singer named Pinhas Cohen; sadly he is very far from Yiddishkeit and his wife is not Jewish.

    Just as the US had Irving Berlin and the Gershwins, the Arab Jewish world was full of popular composers, the difference being that Berlin and their ilk were porkei ol malchus shamayim whereas the Jewish composers in Morocco etc stayed close to tradition until now (“Benhass” is not the only Jew I know who married out in Morocco – it is not a shanda anymore, unfortunately).

    Pop music is pop music – but the words stick in the mind and neshomo, especially because composers are using less and less common psukim (Yedid, Ki HaTov, Shiru laMelech come to mind).

    No reason to listen to secular words because we have enough music of our own.

    #779979

    charliehall
    Participant

    Rov Soloveitchik z’tz’l was very clear that much non-Jewish music elevated the soul and was mutar — even when sung by a woman.

    #779980

    always here
    Participant

    “Rov Soloveitchik z’tz’l was very clear that much non-Jewish music elevated the soul”

    thank you… there is nothing or no one who can ever change my feelings about rock ‘n roll … it’s me

    #779981

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Daas Yochid, care to elaborate? What issurim are there?

    To clarify, I am referring to inappropriate lyrics, which I assume you were talking about since you were distinguishing between men and women.

    See Shulchan Aruch O”C 307 16 where no distinction is made between men and women, and for further clarification, Igros Moshe Even Haezer V0l. 1 69, where R’ Moshe says that there are two issurim involved with hirhur; “v’nishmarta”, which applies only to men, and “acharei eineichem” which applies to women as well.

    #779982

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    and im not listening to inapropriate music!

    What are you listening to?

    you dont sound like the type, that if i DO tell you what im listening to, you would no what im talkin bout, so i dont see a point in saying.

    My understanding is that the vast majority of today’s secular music has inappropriate lyrics. If you won’t say which artist(s) you listen to, I can’t argue the point, but if you would, I could do research, and, I think, most likely find that much of it is not appropriate.

    #779983

    BS”D

    And there is nothing that will change my feelings about the fact that Rav Soloveichik ZTL and his version of MO belonged to an earlier time when you just could not observe on a level that we can today.

    I experience this in very minor ways in Eastern Europe – for instance kosher certified mustard, chrein and canned vegetables don’t exist here and we have what to rely on to use what we use. But even in London and Paris where there are kosher lists that accept such things I would not use them, let alone in the US or E”Y.

    So too, I listened to non-kosher muzika mizrahit 20 years ago when there was no kosher alternative. I had one mp3 of such stuff on an old computer that was stolen and I have no intention of replacing it because I don’t need it. I don’t even have the time or inclination to listen to anywhere near 50% of the kosher albums out there because I find that they are too good and therefore distract me when I am working.

    Now, there is no excuse to listen to goyishe music. The words are prust and grub, and that includes classical music as well as pop. Mozart was on no higher a level than Michael Jackson was, and there are well known classical performers who are into M”Z and other severe violations of the 7 Mitzvos Bnei Noach. Besides, when I bought 2 Lipa albums this week, I am sure a few cents went to his shul and his other chessed work. You don’t want to know what the popular and classical music world supports.

    You don’t have to listen only to niggunim and chazzanus – few people are on that level – but there is plenty out there for every taste including alternative.

    #779984

    despite what many here say, non jewish music is not all bad. There are many mant great non-jewish songs.

    #779985

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Did I mention they are playing non jewish music in starbucks? But it is really hard to hear over the coffee grinder.

    #779986

    always here
    Participant

    600kilobear~ I listen to the music of 30-45 yrs ago…

    #779987

    BS”D

    Non-Jewish music is just fine – for non-Jews. Pork is just fine too for non-Jews.

    #779988

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    despite what many here say, non jewish music is not all bad. There are many mant great non-jewish songs

    Okay, but how are you supposed to know what’s clean unless you listen to all of it, including the bad stuff, until you figure it out?

    #779989

    BS”D

    Always Here – 30-45 years ago was worse than now – the drug culture, the rebellion etc.

    Actually, except that one of the singers of that era hanged himself in prison while awaiting felony charges, and there were allegations of organized crime involvement in the production end, muzika mizrahit 20 – 25 years ago was far cleaner than anything the US or UK secular music world had to offer.

    Some words even came from kodesh – the overplayed Shabchi Yerushalayim came from that era and culture and we adopted it. The love songs were full of psukim from Shir haShirim and tehillim. Jo Amar A”H started that type of singing and he was always shomer Torah umitzvos; at least half of his popular songs were pure kodesh even at the beginning. At the end of his career he sang only kodesh because B”H his audiences accepted it.

    Now, because those who want kodesh can find pure kodesh, what is left of muzika mizrahit is shmutz shebashmutz.

    #779990

    always here
    Participant

    those were happy days, good times…. for us.

    my husband appreciates the same music, too .. and we’re not bothering anyone, nor undergoing bad changes to ourselves, by enjoying our music.

    I also enjoy watching & listening online to Rebbishe mitzvah tantzes, so go figure.

    my problem with Jewish music, is that I don’t understand the lyrics, but enjoy many of the tunes… just not my preference.

    and we don’t eat pork :/

    #779991

    BS”D

    Buy the newer albums – they often include the words in the cover booklet or on PDF for downloads :). When Lipa first hit the scene, I needed the lyrics because his Ingarish Yiddish pronunciation is so different from mine (and even from the Poylisher dialect such as Belz which was the closest thing I had heard to his dialect) that I thought he made some of his words up at first.

    #779993

    always here
    Participant

    I don’t buy albums, or cds (or ‘rent’, as per the CR controversy).

    whenever I win a Jewish music cd at a Chinese auction, I hand it right over to my daughter; she only listens to Jewish music with her family.

    #779994

    charliehall
    Participant

    “there is nothing or no one who can ever change my feelings about rock ‘n roll “

    The Rov z’tz’l was primarily referring to classical music. He and Rav Hutner z’tz’l used to attend the opera together in Berlin.

    #779995

    charliehall
    Participant

    “The words are prust and grub, and that includes classical music as well as pop.”

    Really?

    Even this?

    Fly, thought, on wings of gold;

    go settle upon the slopes and the hills,

    where, soft and mild, the sweet airs

    of our native land smell fragrant!

    Greet the banks of the Jordan

    and Zion’s toppled towers…

    Oh, my country so lovely and lost!

    Oh, remembrance so dear and so fraught with despair!

    Golden harp of the prophetic seers,

    why dost thou hang mute upon the willow?

    Rekindle our bosom’s memories,

    and speak of times gone by!

    Mindful of the fate of Jerusalem,

    either give forth an air of sad lamentation,

    or else let the Lord imbue us

    with fortitude to bear our sufferings!

    – English translation of “Va, Pensiero”, from Verdi’s “Nabucco” (1844)

    #779996

    mdd
    Member

    Rock’n’roll is wild and inappropriate.

    #779997

    canine
    Member

    “used to attend the opera together in Berlin.

    After they became Gedolim they never again did so.

    #779998

    BS”D

    Those words meant little to their composer – some say that it was a metaphor for some political event in what became Italy but chances are that Giuseppe Verdi, despite the fact that his name in Heimish would be Yossi Green, just knew of those words from studying what to him was the “Old Testament”.

    Let My People Go is not kodesh either, and the same goes for Turn Turn Turn which is a translation of Koheles. This is simply dragging kodesh into places where we don’e belong – OK and then some for a ben Noiach but NOT FOR US!

    Boruch Hamavdil ben koidesh lechol!!!

    #779999

    charliehall
    Participant

    “they never again did so”

    I’m not sure this is true, but whether it is or not, The Rov was very adamant in paskening to my rav that opera is totally mutar, and YU has for a very long time held an annual opera fundraiser.

    #780001

    HaKatan
    Participant

    There is plenty of Torah regarding how music is an expression of the soul and that it touches the soul directly.

    Put simply, music is extremely powerful and its deepest “language” is understood by your soul, not your brain.

    Why would anyone want to contaminate their neshama with some (low-life’s) “music” no matter what the lyrics, or even if it is instrumental?

    Having said that, I have heard that this does not (fully?) apply to classical music. But it’s hard to imagine how any non-Jewish music could be safe, even if instrumental.

    #780002

    mw13
    Participant

    I’m with HaKatan on this one. Music is an expression of the deepest feelings and attitudes of the composer. Now, often goyish music will have a neutral, or even positive attitude; however, all too often it conveys prust, animalistic feelings and attitudes. This is not an attitude that any Jew should be exposing his or her soul to.

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