July 14, 2011 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #597987
I have a friend who keeps strict kosher(as far as I know) besides for chewing gum. Question: would you eat at their house? This is someone who would most likely be very insulted if I stopped coming to their house for meals. They even told me one rabbi said it was okay(sometime in the 70s-80s I assume) and their current rabbi told them that he would not personally do it and left it at that.July 15, 2011 1:34 am at 1:34 am #786133Derech HaMelechMember
I would not. This person clearly expresses his willingness to catch any kulah he can when it comes to kashrus (and I’m not saying that this is such a great kulah). How can I trust him?July 15, 2011 3:14 am at 3:14 am #786134
It is gonna be hard to explain this to them without hurting any feelings. And we live right near each other. I also question their use of the “un-blech” on which I noticed that insulate their food(which he said is ok on an unblech and they even put food on with gravy in the day.July 15, 2011 4:25 am at 4:25 am #786135Derech HaMelechMember
I don’t know what an unblech is. I’m also not your Rov, so it might be prudent to speak to your Rov before making such a decision.July 15, 2011 4:40 am at 4:40 am #786136bezalelParticipant
Why should they be insulted if they know that they use Kulos that you don’t use.July 15, 2011 6:02 am at 6:02 am #786137MiddlePathParticipant
Yes, I would absolutely eat by their house. I know plenty of people that also follow this thing about chewing non-kosher gum, and they all have perfectly kosher houses. You should definitely keep eating at their house, especially if they would be insulted if you’d stop coming.July 15, 2011 7:00 am at 7:00 am #786138truthsharerMember
The OU had an article on gum but I couldn’t find it. The bottom line was that many of the ways to make gum involve actual non-kosher ingredients. It’s not just not-certified but it’s actual treif. After all, how many popular brands of non-Jewish gums are kosher certified?
(I think Bazooka is becoming kosher in the US.)July 15, 2011 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #786139L613Member
Gum is actually really complicated to make kosher. Or maybe that I was ice cream. Not sure.
Unless, are you talking about in Israel where some of the MUST gum is really kosher and some is just “fake” kosher? (I always get get confused).July 15, 2011 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #786140DroidMember
If you only want to eat kosher, you should certainly not be eating at this person’s house or trusting anything related to kashrus from him.July 15, 2011 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #786144☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
He may have whom to rely on to chew gum, but his rabbi recommended against it, and he heats up cold liquids on Shabbos. I would not eat there.
Meanwhile, see if you can speak to him (or his rabbi) about not heating liquids on Shabbos, which is potentially a bigger problem.July 15, 2011 2:41 pm at 2:41 pm #786145adorableParticipant
I would not eat at such a person’s house. I dont think you should tell it to him in a way that will make him think that you are telling him what to do. just say that you dont wanna tell him that hes doing anything wrong but that you are not comfortable with it.July 15, 2011 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #786146
Derech, the unblech is a metal pan filled with water and then has another pan placed over it. It is like heating food k’deira., Like warming it up over a hot water urn. And as I was learning last night it looks like it is forbidden to insulate a hot water urn, then it should be forbidden to insulate food on an unblech, unlike my friend told me. I also know it is forbidden to heat up gravy or wet food no matter what. I think I am going to have to speak to the rav, but I dont know how to go about it without him figuring out who it is, or me telling him.July 15, 2011 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #786149ItcheSrulikMember
The k’deira blech is a different issue than the gum. The gum is a well-known kula which your rav (or his, for that matter) may or may not like. The blech could be simple ignorance. The k’deira blech was touted as a new thing to make various things muttar on shabbos but advertisements aren’t halacha teshuvos and people make mistakes. I’ve seen more than one older gentleman take an umbrella to shul on shabbos because he held with the local eruv.July 15, 2011 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #786151
itchesrulik- The issur behind using an umbrella is not clear. The node beyehuda said it’s boneh middoraysa, but many poskim have an issue with that because it’s meant to be open and closed. The chazon ish said it’s uvdah dichol. Some poskim have said it’s muktzeh, but if that were the case one should be able to use it litzorech gufo. Personally, I would feel much more uncomfortable using the local eiruv than using an umbrella.July 15, 2011 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #786153
the Bi’ur Halachah writes that one is prohibited to carry an umbrella on Shabbos because wherever a person walks while he carries the umbrella, he makes a new ohel in that place (since he is holding the umbrella for the sake of using it as an ohel, which protects the space underneath it).July 15, 2011 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #786154
that of course is in regards even to an umbrella that was opened before Shabbos. even more so is it a problem to open an umbrella on ShabbosJuly 15, 2011 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm #786155
mod80- The biur halacha you refer to is in siman 315 sief 8. If I remember it correctly he differentiates between the umbrellas of old which had to be tied in place to remain open and umbrellas today which have springs. He still holds it’s assur because of maaris ayin and because one may come to do hotzaah. I do not have a mishna berurah in front of me but that is what I have in my notes. Please correct me if I’m wrong.July 15, 2011 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #786156
i found this online:
“The BI’UR HALACHAH (OC 315:7) explains that an umbrella is not similar to a folding chair, because such a chair unfolds right into position. An umbrella, however, is different, because the metal rods keep the umbrella locked in the open position, and these must be clicked into place when unfolding the umbrella. Because of this, opening an umbrella is deemed constructing an Ohel, and not merely putting an object in a different position. “
sounds to me like our modern umbrellas
in addition ive asked two Poskim about this issur and i was told the problem is the issur of ohelJuly 15, 2011 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm #786157
mod80- I guess I will have to look that up. The chassam sofer in OC 72 pretty much says that it should be muttar. I asked a Rav why people don’t use umbrellas on shabbos. He said because of the Node Beyehuda. I asked the Rav if he was paskening like the Node Beyehuda that it’s assur midoraysa. He said, no I’m responding to your question why people don’t use it. So I said, are you saying it’s muttar? He avoided answering me and said I would never use an umbrella anyway on shabbos, so I should stop bothering him. It seems to me that the general consensus of the poskim is that it should be muttar, like the Chassam Sofer, but no one will come out against the psak of the node beyhuda. I certainly would not use an umbrella on shabbos, but again I am more concerned for the local eiruv which is not good according to the mehcaber and most rishonim, than I am using an umbrella.
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