September 24, 2021 1:55 am at 1:55 am #2009754Red AdairParticipant
Today I saw an extremely disappointed frum family turned away from a NYC museum they had planned on visiting. They had spent time and money driving into the city and paying for parking, anticipating an enjoyable day for their kids.
Unfortunately, they were not vaccinated, and the website of the place they wanted to visit didn’t mention proof-of-vaccination was an absolute requirement.
Please be aware that in New York City it’s illegal for several types of business, e.g. museums, indoor dining, and others to admit customers who don’t have proof of vaccination. Proof of antibodies is meaningless, as is being vaccinated but not having your card or a photo of it.
IMO, websites of establishments that these rule apply for should have this requirement listed in bold letters on their main webpage to avoid disappointment and a wasted trip, but whether or not they do so the law applies and they won’t admit the unvaccinated.
The intention of this post isn’t to debate the law, but simply to (hopefully) save you from the type of disappointment, waste of money, and waste of a precious chol hamoed trip opportunity that we witnessed today.September 24, 2021 9:09 am at 9:09 am #2009832anonymous JewParticipant
There was considerable publicity when this went to affect, both by the city and then the negative reaction .September 24, 2021 9:10 am at 9:10 am #2009833ujmParticipant
What attractions require proof of vaccination and which do not?September 24, 2021 9:44 am at 9:44 am #2009842MosheFromMidwoodParticipant
You have to be living under a stone not to even check if you need to be vaccinated. It has been widely publicizedSeptember 24, 2021 9:44 am at 9:44 am #2009840GadolhadorahParticipant
Just about every newspaper and media outlet have been highlighting the vaccination rules for weeks and running stories about incidents where individuals had objected to the new requirements. For many of those that deliberately avoid reading newspapers (print or online) or watching TV, they are also unlikely to see notices on museum websites. However, I’ve checked several of the top museums (MET, Natural History and MOMA) and all have the warning about the Covid Vaccination requirement as a condition of entry. For example the Jewish Museum website has the following alert:
“In accordance with government regulations and health guidance, visitors must reserve timed tickets and observe additional policies as part of their visit. Read the guidelines on this page to ensure a safe and enjoyable visit. In compliance with the New York City mandate, proof of vaccination is required for all visitors 12 and older. ”
The rules on the NYC Department of Health Website are clear and unambiguous and cover virtually all restaurants, bars, museums, indoor entertainment/cultural venues etc.September 24, 2021 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #2009938palmoneyParticipant
In miami only vaccinated people are in buildings on Collins because the same logic goes in to being unvaccinated and staying away from high rises on CollinsSeptember 25, 2021 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #2009982
Boycott everything whether you are vaccinated or not. DO NOT cooperate with this madness and removal of liberties unless you want to live in a new NAZI GERMANY…Hashem YerachemSeptember 26, 2021 12:01 am at 12:01 am #2010017
RW > Boycott everything whether you are vaccinated or not.
RW, 81% of adults are vaccinated in NYC. So, I suspect most of them would prefer to boycott you rather than support remaining refusniks. Also, on old USENET, there used to be a rule that the one who first invokes Nazis in an argument – loses it.September 26, 2021 12:28 am at 12:28 am #2010024
Always ask you are assuming i am unvaccinated. Look closely i wrote whether you are vaccinated or not this is about liberty and freedom so going along with this will only lead to worse.
Also fyi I didnt use nazi germany for the shock value, its simply the most recent example in our times of what has happened when freedoms were slowly taken away from people and particularly from one specific group of people. Except that now its on a global scale and its a fight for humanity.
Also you are forgetting that many unvaccinated have strong antibodies which contrary to the brainwash, are still going strong. So I dont know why anyone would avoid an unvaccinated person with antibodies, or even without who doesnt exhibit any symptoms. But we already have gone in circles on that topic and there is no fixing stupid.
The reason why our society is doomed is due to people like you who ruin it for everyone. Too bad you “follow the science” when the “science” has been changing and conflicting itself daily while relying on your like minded people to not notice a thing.September 26, 2021 1:35 am at 1:35 am #2010036
RW, unvaccinated people could just do the rest of the people a favor and keep out of museums on chol hamoed.
For those who had Covid, whether by act of G-d or by negligence, it is not enough to rely on that alone to conclude that you are not in danger or not a danger to others. Those who measure high antibody count have a stronger leg to stand on, but I am not sure what is percentage of people who 1) belong to the group of unvaccinated, 2) had Covid, and 3) continue monitoring their antibody level. (1) and (2) are mostly uneducated either very rural or very urban, while (3) presumes some
level of education. This might cover a section of Jewish community, but probably not the others.
That said, FDA & CDC will probably get to the issue of antibodies of covid survivors after it resolves all the other urgent issues – boosters for Moderna, J&J, vaccines for children, etc. These people sound a little overworked for now …September 26, 2021 11:04 am at 11:04 am #2010113commonsaychelParticipant
Thats great, i hope the economy of NYC get a real hit from this insanitySeptember 26, 2021 11:19 am at 11:19 am #2010118
For those who had Covid, whether by act of G-d or by negligence, it is not enough to rely on that alone to conclude that you are not in danger or not a danger to others.
The evidence shows that previous Covid infection offers more protection than vaccination. So unless you involve politics, there’s no reason to exclude previously infected people over vaccinated people.September 26, 2021 11:53 am at 11:53 am #2010120
Always ask, If the vaccine was so effective we wouldn’t be up to 4 boosters by now. They even admitted that it isn’t as effective especially against variants. Soon they will probably stop admitting it and just tell you to keep taking vaccines without any explanation but that’s besides the point.
On the other hand if the natural antibodies weren’t enough to protect individuals, you would have seen a rise in cases to the likes of the beginning of the pandemic. You have not seen that so obviously the previously infected population have not gotten reinfected. What other evidence for you need?
Makes you question why are they pushing the vaccines so aggressively on the whole population with no scientific basis aside for what they conveniently make up as they go along…September 26, 2021 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #2010126
If the vaccine was so effective we wouldn’t be up to 4 boosters by now. They even admitted that it isn’t as effective especially against variants.
I’m not sure why it’s so difficult to understand that something can be effective, but not last forever. Did you eat yesterday? Then why are you hungry today?
On the other hand if the natural antibodies weren’t enough to protect individuals, you would have seen a rise in cases to the likes of the beginning of the pandemic.
Yes, naturally immune, but also many vaccinated people.September 26, 2021 1:46 pm at 1:46 pm #2010137Amil ZolaParticipant
The problem here is lack of information. The family attending were unaware of the highly publicized restrictions in NY.September 26, 2021 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #2010139
Daas “Yes, naturally immune, but also many vaccinated people.”
-There was already a decline in cases way before the vaccine came out which is due to many who had already been infected. Also its easier to prove that the ones with antibodies havent gotten reinfected since enough time has passed since the beginning of the outbreak. The vaccine doesnt prove much as of yet since its still early and yet even vaccinated individuals have gotten infected and many severely. So that itself gives a 1 point advantage to natural antibodies which the world conveniently ignores.
It isnt difficult to understand that something can be effective but not last forever. But this MRNA is far from lasting forever. Four shots in less than a year? Can you name another vaccine which requires several shots a year to remain effective? At what number will you be satisfied with its effectiveness, 10 booster shots, 20?
And you think that this vaccine comes with no side effects short term/long term? You do understand that certain chemicals/toxins can build up in the body in which 1 dose may not hurt it as much but 4 or more may cause serious issues? Even the inventor of this specific MRNA which is being used by Pfizer and Moderna warned that it is wrong to aggressively force this upon everyone and that with every dose comes an added risk to the individual. This is the inventor of this vaccine Dr Robert Malone you can google him. But they already labeled him as a misinformation quack so go figure. If he is such a misinformer I wonder how they trust using his own MRNA technology?September 26, 2021 5:58 pm at 5:58 pm #2010151
Four shots in less than a year?
Um, no, only three for the most vulnerable. And that’s for the Phizer vaccine, I don’t think that’s applicable to the others. And yes, if that were deemed necessary and safer than not getting a booster, why should the fact that a series of shots was necessary mean it’s not effective?
The healthcare community denies Malone’s claim that he “invented” mRNA vaccines. He contributed to their development. And he’s still in the minority in his skepticism, and even he says some should take it.September 26, 2021 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #2010177
DY > The evidence shows that previous Covid infection offers more protection than vaccination
This may be true, but not fully established yet. “Infection” may involve a little or a lot of exposure. Vaccines also do not produce same results – some people get more protected, some less, but the response to the vaccine seem to be more regular – after all, everyone gets the same carefully measured amount of exposure.
It may be that Feds are too conservative in not trying to guess better rules and use instead “lo plug” approach instead of measuring antibodies and giving personal guidelines to people. It may be that virus specialists are trying to make public policy without having training. I sae recently that CDC Dr Walensky mentions a need for social scientists to get involved. This is a little late and a little slow …September 26, 2021 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #2010179
> On the other hand if the natural antibodies weren’t enough to protect individuals, you would have seen a rise in cases to the likes of the beginning of the pandemic.
It is well documented that rates are 10x higher for unvaxed. Overall rates are down due to most vulnerable people vaccinated. US now has 1/3 of hospitalizations from the highest pre-vaccine peak in January, so it is still pretty big.September 26, 2021 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #2010184
RW, why you repeating the same wild ideas without ever responding to what you are told here? A simple question – do you also have problems with J&J? Novavax? AZ? Sputnik? Sinopharm? None of these multiple, mostly independently developed, vaccine satisfy you?September 26, 2021 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #2010214NechomahParticipant
As far as needed multiple booster to maintain immunity, do you take the flu shot yearly? We have to do that because there are different strains (also read as variants) of the flu virus that are assumed to be prevalent in the coming year. Maybe in another 20 years (hopefully sooner), if corona hasn’t died out by then, doctors, scientists, and researchers will understand enough about the virus and its variants to provide a yearly booster aimed at the most prevalent variant at that time. For now we’re behind the 8 ball, trying to play catch up to a disease that seems to always be 2 steps ahead of us.
Also, do you know how many doses of vaccine for DTaP are given to infants in order to provide some level of immunity? Check it out. And even after that there are further boosters given in childhood/adolescence, and still a person needs a tetanus booster shot every 10 years to maintain immunity. Does that mean it is not effective?September 26, 2021 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #2010217
Daas, “Um, no, only three for the most vulnerable.”
-Um, no, Israel is already up to the 4th booster and others are following suit so keep yourself updated with the times.
“The healthcare community denies Malone’s claim that he “invented” mRNA vaccines. He contributed to their development. And he’s still in the minority in his skepticism, and even he says some should take it.”
-Oh they deny it? Well what could we have expected. Also minority doesnt mean they are automatically wrong and should be dismissed, thats like saying Jews are minority in the world so who cares about their beliefs they must be wrong. Also he said it may be appropriate for some of course people at risk or elderly then it might be better than taking a chance with the virus. But thats not whats happening. And why censor everyone with a different opinion, you let people hear and decide you cant censor and only feed people the information you want them to hear and believe thats a big red flag and totally wrong.
We already know about the J&J issues that were so severe it had to be stopped even against their agenda. The reason i mention Pfizer and Moderna is due to the wide range popularity and issuance of the vaccine. The others surely have issues as well and you cannot claim to know the long term side effects of any of them unless you have the capability of traveling 10-15 years into the future, as cited on the CDC website (before the page was removed from existence), that vaccines take 10-15 years of trials to be released. Now you might say this isnt a traditional vaccine its an MRNA, well then, wouldnt that make it even more of a risk? An untested NEW type of technology injected into your body?
@alwaysask-“It is well documented that rates are 10x higher for unvaxed.”
-and are those unvaxxed, individuals who had previous infections or just unvaxxed and no previous infection? Its quite an important detail to conveniently keep out you know. Also are they reporting how many VAXXED individuals are hospitalized? Probably not as much. You do understand that if all those with antibodies would have gotten reinfected the hospitals would have been overwhelmed by now, so whats your argument for EVERY single individual to get the vaccines?
“None of these multiple, mostly independently developed, vaccine satisfy you? ”
-Even 1 untested vaccine is risky enough its just common sense, i was focusing on the bigger ones which require 3-4 as of now and are mainstream. How many pills were taken off the market YEARS later due to serious negative effects? So how is a vaccine that was made in less than a year any different? Again am I saying everyone should go out to get COVID certainly not! But if you already had COVID, and the antibodies are proving to both last longer than the vaccines and be naturally effective against all variants, then why push them to take another risk by injecting an unneeded and untested vaccine into their body! That all goes against science.For months they said vaccine is risky for children, suddenly in a week they come up with the fact that its safe for children and mandatory, flip flopping and contradicting themselves day to day but some amongst us are so ignorant that they will believe anything no matter what they see or hear for themselves. If you want to get the vaccine then go ahead but thats where it should end.
Oh and DaasYochid we are only at 3? Keyword ONLY right? What other vaccine then requires 2-3 (4 by now but whatever) doses in less than a year? Most vaccines are once in a lifetime and even the flu shot is annual. What Dr Malone said was plain common sense that since we do not know the long term effects it is risky and with every dose carries a greater risk. Its plain logic. And yes he is the inventor of the MRNA Vaccine.September 26, 2021 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #2010218
Nechomah-“And even after that there are further boosters given in childhood/adolescence, and still a person needs a tetanus booster shot every 10 years to maintain immunity. Does that mean it is not effective? ”
You are comparing totally different vaccines. You usually dont have natural immunity when it comes to tetanus. But with viruses you do develop. Same with flu, there are people who never get the shot and never get the flu or maybe only had it once in their lifetime and developed lifelong immunity to all variants. If not then almost everyone would catch the flu every season which isnt the case. On the other hand many who get the shot catch the flu every year. And with COVID as well 99% who had an infection were not reinfected and thats facing all the variants, Delta, Lamda, Mu, Brazilian, Indian, British, New York and any other variant they named each worse than the other they claimed. So wouldnt common sense dictate the wait and see approach at least for those with antibodies which so far are proving to be superior to the vaccine? Why force them to vaccinate? Isnt it also strange how the FDA came out against vaccinating children but seems like noone cares because FAUCI declares to proceed?September 26, 2021 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #2010219
Just one question, if the vaccines (3-4) have been so effective, why are cases going up in Israel which is the most vaccinated country in the world? Is it all due to the 10% unvaccinated? Why are they pushing more and more boosters is that the answer to everything, I mean if you see its not working after 2 or 3 shots, you just continue giving more and more shots? Surely something isnt right if there is still and uptick in cases. First they said wear a mask for 2 weeks and lockdown it will stop the virus, then it was the vaccines, but even with the vaccines we are in the same situation, so yes the fact that they keep pushing boosters IS proof that its not working, aside for many many vaccinated who got the virus and also some serious side effects due to the vaccine.
Its also interesting how they said several times that COVID will be here forever, but on the other hand they are fighting with masks vaccines and lockdowns to abolish it. Did they forget that they already said it will be here to stay as a virus? Why dont they also try to abolish the flu while they are at it. Israel reported zero cases of the flu last year so does that mean the flu is gone for good? And if it isnt then what makes anyone think that when we get to zero cases of COVID it will be gone for good?September 26, 2021 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #2010220
This may be true, but not fully established yet.
Pretty well established. Well enough that in Israel they have been accepting past infection as equivalent to vaccinated, and further studies have confirmed it.September 26, 2021 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #2010226
Israel is preparing for a potential 4th dose if deemed necessary, they aren’t “up to the 4th”. And if they were, so what?
No, Malone didn’t invent it. He’s bitter that he isn’t getting the credit he thinks he deserves.
They never said it was risky for kids, they were waiting for the studies.
Yes, it’s impossible to know for sure the long term effects. We do know what the long term term effects of Covid are, though. Once dead, always dead.September 26, 2021 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #2010227
We also don’t know what the effects of Covid will be on survivors in 10-15 years from now, so the “we don’t know” argument is not at all convincing.September 26, 2021 10:22 pm at 10:22 pm #2010233
Trying to prove they’re not working because of how many shots are required is downright silly.
Of course they are working. The people dying from Covid are overwhelmingly the unvaccinated.September 26, 2021 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #2010239
And with COVID as well 99% who had an infection were not reinfected
I’m not sure where those numbers come from and if they are outdated, but I know a lot of people who got Covid a second time.
None seriously ill b”H, which is why I don’t know if a vaccine is necessary for someone who had Covid (and I certainly don’t think it should be mandated), but those who advise to get vaccinated even for those who once had it have strong basis for that view.
That’s aside from the argument to get vaccinated to lessen the spread.September 26, 2021 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #2010237
but even with the vaccines we are in the same situation
No we are not. The vaccinated are getting severely ill and dying at a much lower rate.September 26, 2021 11:17 pm at 11:17 pm #2010246flyerParticipant
I think this is a stupid conversation that goes in circles.
But start speaking to people – people who had it are getting it more and more. Don’t think there is any answer here. Only davening to HashemSeptember 26, 2021 11:29 pm at 11:29 pm #2010252
I was talking about the antibody individuals. You agree they shoulnt be required to vaccinate but yet they are being forced to vaccinate that’s the whole issue here.
Also not every Covid case equals death so what you wrote is silly because it’s over 99% survival rate for most of the population. They even came out with a study that many hospitalized cases are actually very mild but the media will have you think that every covid case means they are dead and every hospitalized patient is on the way as well.
The whole controversy is in regards to the forced vaccinations including those who already have antibodies which they are ignoring and trying to minimize as irrelevant. Even those without previous infection should have a choice. Really the only ones who should think about vaccinating are those at risk or are afraid which is understandable. But now we live in a new reality where we cannot even sit at a restaurant without a vaccine. But how do the rules make any sense? You can ride the crowded subway in close proximity to others without a vaccine but you can’t sit at a restaurant? Obviously it’s not about science it’s about slowly taking away people’s liberties by getting them used to restrictions, they start at luxuries such as restaurant which aren’t essential for survival and then they slowly narrow it down.
And Israel obviously is in the same situation since they keep talking about lockdowns again and again. Also you keep saying covid death but what about the fact that most people survive? No one should die which is why the fact that they proceeded with gain of function research and turning this virus to infect humans and then leaking it out into the world, is one of the biggest evils in history. But if you can’t see the way they are capitalizing on this and spreading fear and propaganda to control the masses then you must be really out of touch. The fact that people can’t go to a gym, restaurant, museum etc. without showing a vaccine card is surreal and it seems the restrictions will only get worse as they already stated they will do. So I’m guessing subways and supermarkets are next. Or is it only at a restaurant where you can catch and spread covid…
Its one thing to use this sick method as an incentive to vaccinate, its another to use this as a gateway to peoples mindset of whats to come so that they accept it.
Also they havent proven that vaccinated “cannot” spread the virus and they also havent proven that antibody individuals “can” spread the virus. In fact they admitted that vaccinated can still spread so whats the logic here? And yes there are many vaccinated who got severely ill and hospitalized its just rarely reported and constantly being censored so naturally people will think its only the unvaccinated. Also isnt the point of a vaccine to protect the vaccinated individual? Since when did this whole “you have to protect the other” come to play? They never did this with any other virus/vaccine. I never heard of them telling everyone to take a flu shot to cover the other it was always about covering yourself.
The bottom line is that whether you choose to get the vaccine or not is one issue, the big issue here is that they are restricting people from living their lives and De Blasio clearly said, “we will make life as difficult as we can for the unvaccinated and more and more restrictions will come”. Who do they think they are? This is why everyone should unite and boycott these restrictions because once it hits your ability to buy food and basic survival needs it will be too late. And the vaccinated wont be safe either they will be restricted until they get whatever updated booster shot required.September 27, 2021 12:26 am at 12:26 am #2010259
You agree they shoulnt be required to vaccinate but yet they are being forced to vaccinate that’s the whole issue here.
Um, no, you were saying nobody should be forced. While I don’t know that it’s legal to literally force anyone to vaccinate, I think it’s wrong for anyone (other than kids) who didn’t have Covid to not vaccinate, and I think an employer has a right to make it a condition of employment (assuming there’s physical proximity to other employees or to customers).
Certainly, healthcare workers, who have contact with the most vulnerable population, need to get vaccinated.
it’s over 99% survival rate for most of the population.
So you’re okay with one out of a hundred people dying, and many others who survive with permanent damage?September 27, 2021 12:33 am at 12:33 am #2010266
the big issue here is that they are restricting people from living their lives
As the saying goes, “Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man’s nose begins.”September 27, 2021 12:42 am at 12:42 am #2010270
This is why everyone should unite and boycott these restrictions because once it hits your ability to buy food and basic survival needs it will be too late.
How about get vaccinated? Much easier. And safer.September 27, 2021 12:43 am at 12:43 am #2010272
And the vaccinated wont be safe either they will be restricted until they get whatever updated booster shot required.
If a booster is deemed necessary, that’s fine.September 27, 2021 12:43 am at 12:43 am #2010269
And Israel obviously is in the same situation since they keep talking about lockdowns again and again.
No, they are not in the same situation. And Bennett is saying no lockdowns.
You keep making ludicrous comments implying that the vaccines aren’t working but ignore the fact that it’s mostly the unvaccinated getting seriously ill and dying.September 27, 2021 12:44 am at 12:44 am #2010268
But how do the rules make any sense? You can ride the crowded subway in close proximity to others without a vaccine but you can’t sit at a restaurant?
You answered your own question two sentences later.September 27, 2021 12:45 am at 12:45 am #2010277
Also they havent proven that vaccinated “cannot” spread the virus
No, but they proved that they are less likely to spread the virus.September 27, 2021 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #2010363
Daas-“So you’re okay with one out of a hundred people dying, and many others who survive with permanent damage?”
-No and are you ok with car accidents, driving under influence, scammers, people dying from the flu or any other virus? Again if you want to be “protected” then take the vaccine what is this new phenomenon of worrying about relying on the other for the vaccine efficacy? Why arent you as concerned for everyone to take a flu shot do you think there have been no deaths from the flu?
From the CDC “Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others.”
I wrote” But how do the rules make any sense? You can ride the crowded subway in close proximity to others without a vaccine but you can’t sit at a restaurant? Obviously it’s not about science it’s about slowly taking away people’s liberties by getting them used to restrictions, they start at luxuries such as restaurant which aren’t essential for survival and then they slowly narrow it down.”
-and you said i answered my own question. So that means you agree that this isnt about science and just about taking away peoples liberties, ok got it.
If vaccinated still need to wear a mask and can still transmit the virus to others and also get infected themselves, please explain how the vaccine is effective.September 27, 2021 1:44 pm at 1:44 pm #2010362
/ the big issue here is that they are restricting people from living their lives
This seems to be the core of the complaint: I have my life figured out, and you’re making demands on me: mask, vaccine… For many of us, it is clear that the demand is from Hashem, and we need to respect the demand and respond accordingly, with some honest differences in opinions possible. Others are simply denying that they need to do something. They just want to have the life they have. This is like a guy who refuses to eat on Yom Kippur, even if it is medically advised. He’s not rebelling against the doctor, he’s rebelling against Hashem.September 27, 2021 3:07 pm at 3:07 pm #2010368
No and are you ok with car accidents, driving under influence, scammers, people dying from the flu or any other virus?
I’m in favor of taking common sense precautions against all of the above.September 27, 2021 3:08 pm at 3:08 pm #2010373Abba_SParticipant
There is no logic to this vaccine mandate. It is surprising that workers will be fired for not having but there is no similiar requirement for government programs for example homeless shelters where it is more likely all types of diseases can be spread but there is no vaccine mandate for the shelters.September 27, 2021 3:08 pm at 3:08 pm #2010371
“Others are simply denying that they need to do something.”
Everyone is doing something. Either welcoming their freedom being taken away or fighting. Everything is from Hashem. You are choosing to take it as meaning you have to welcome in a new world order. Others are taking it to mean they have to fight this because government/elitist control over humanity goes against Hashem since they are going outside of their realm of power. Aside for the fact that it’s unconstitutional and goes against everything America stands for. In the declaration of independence it says
“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,-That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government”
What is happening in the world is a revolution. You can choose to be on the controlled side that’s your choice. Just know that regardless of how the media tries it’s best to keep it quiet, there are millions against this world government tyranny and are not silent about it.September 27, 2021 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #2010367
Obviously it’s not about science it’s about slowly taking away people’s liberties
No, it’s about balance between health and utility. It’s not as easy to take away a necessity from someone as a luxury.September 27, 2021 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #2010385
If vaccinated still need to wear a mask and can still transmit the virus to others and also get infected themselves, please explain how the vaccine is effective.
People who take the vaccine are less likely to get sick and die.
In my book, that means it’s effective.
Not perfect, effective.September 27, 2021 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #2010387
Aside for the fact that it’s unconstitutional
Nonsense. It’s always been the role of government to keep its citizens safe. Vaccine mandates in particular have been legal for over a century.September 27, 2021 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #2010395
Abba> There is no logic to this vaccine mandate.
I think you are trying to say “there is no perfect logic”. I think we all got used to order and predictability: 3-day delivery is so yesterday, emails arrive immediately, you sign up for school a year in advance. Go back 10 years and maybe to a different continent, and you’ll be standing in line to get basic necessities, attacked by bandits on a random day, find out about what happened in another country several months later.. This is all good, but just don’t feel so entitled..
That said, it is no question that government institutions are overwhelmed and often inconsistent. They are “imperfect men governing imperfect men”, as (perfectly) envisioned by Reb Madison.
So, instead of sniping, calmly take, and say thank you, for what is good and discard the klipot.September 27, 2021 4:32 pm at 4:32 pm #2010391ubiquitinParticipant
“No and are you ok with car accidents, driving under influence, scammers, people dying from the flu or any other virus? ”
Thank you for your excellent example. In fact I am so not ok with people driving under the influence that even having an open bottle in your car is illlegal.
Why? Is it my business what you do in your car? Doesnt this infringe on your right to air your wine’s tannins on your way home? Isnt this your freedom s being taken away and basically what the Nazis did?September 27, 2021 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #2010398🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
AAQ – nice soliloqy, although not relevant here. Anyone stupid enough to be complaining about restrictions purely because they don’t like to be told what to do our not even worthy of a response so I exclude them from this comment. You are waxing poetic about people not being perfect, only human, inconsistent etc. That is somewhat akin to saying that a school shooter is just a person in pain acting out in protest of a broken system. By hiding it behind those words, you make anyone who opposes it sound rash and impatient.
Based on past conversations, I sadly have to consider that you actually think that to be true but for everyone else participating, it isn’t about inconsistency, it is about lying, mistrust, lack of credibility and lack of science. For example – they claim to be following the science, and then come out with statements and rules that don’t. They claim that this epidemic is deadly, and then release tens of thousands of immigrants into the communities without testing some, and KNOWING others are COVID positive. They claim it is deadly for us to be in buildings unvaxxed and without precautions, but then allow homeless shelters to continue without those precautions. They say all government workers need to be vaxxed, except themselves, they say they follow the science and then require kids to forfeit healthy development even though the science DOES NOT support it. I used to beleive this pandemic was really deadly. I did whatever I could to avoid it. I also happen to be a rule follower by nature. BUT – when the people on the top who were WRITING and ENFORCING the rules, the ones closest to the facts, didn’t bother keeping the rules, that is when I learned it’s all trash.
I will do what I can to prevent the spread. I wear a mask, keep my kids home when they are sick, stay away from fragile people when I have been in crowds etc but the trust is out the window. And not because the government is HUMAN and IMPERFECT.
Do you even process any of this or is this more of your trolling? Like the part where you say you bring things up to hear other opinions. Except you don’t really seem to.
Soapbox is all yours. But don’t forget tonight is yuntiff.
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