November 22, 2011 6:34 am at 6:34 am #600743YW Moderator-42Moderator
We have confirmed with a prominent rabbi that the poster “am yisrael chai”, popularly known as AYC, is a legitimate, good, well-meaning person. AYC has now been restored as a verified member in excellent standing. AYC is guilty of nothing more than temimus, and never meant any harm. We are very sorry that this happened and hope that AYC accepts our sincere apologies and is mochel us for the great tzar that we caused. Words cannot describe how sorry we are and how bad we feel that we did this.
We understand that we have besmirched the name of a poster who was, arguably, perhaps the most popular and loved poster in the CR over the past few months. AYC was a friend, and a virtual shoulder we all leaned on. We enjoyed AYC’s wealth of compliments and help. The fact that we could have made such a mistake is a shock that will take time for us to fully comprehend.
There were many reasons that we suspected ayc of being a stalker. The main cause was the fact that we were working under the assumption that ayc was Joseph. There were many things that led us to the conclusion that ayc was Joseph but those all turned out to be unfortunate coincidences.
One thing that really stood out was the fact that AYC had contact with other posters via email outside the CR and one of these other posters complained about it. This other poster had posted her email address in a thread and ayc contacted her afterwards. Considering that this person had posted her email address, there was nothing inherently wrong in what ayc did. But after the mods warned the CR that Joseph was dangerous, this poster got scared that perhaps the ayc who she was communicating with was Joseph and/or dangerous. After that we made one assumption after another and eventually blocked ayc.
We would like to point out that Joseph is still out there. He is still reading the CR, and is still a manipulating, possibly dangerous person. We are very sorry that ayc had to be a korbon in this way, but the danger of stalkers is still out there and the posters in the CR must be aware of this. The poster who was scared of ayc was correct to be cautious. We were wrong to conclude that ayc was Joseph.
Again, we offer our sincerest apologies to ayc for the tremendous tzar we have caused and hope that s/he comes back and re-joins the CR to continue to offer the help and companionship that s/he was offering before this fiasco.November 22, 2011 6:43 am at 6:43 am #839846🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
B”H!!!!November 22, 2011 6:46 am at 6:46 am #839847YW Moderator-42Moderator
Please be aware that despite the fact that our accusations against ayc were mostly false, there are IMPOSTERS/STALKERS/HACKERS out there who might be reading every word you say. They may have found your email address. Anyone who is contacted by someone outside the CR should report it immediately. We are taking this very seriously.
The verifications of highly suspicious accounts will continue, but this time quietly and privately. Some accounts have already been silently blocked and we have been in contact with the posters by email. By now everyone is probably aware of the stalking and harassing that have been occurring here, and it is time to put a stop to them. We would rather err on the side of caution than let innocents get hurt.November 22, 2011 6:47 am at 6:47 am #839848✡onegoal™Participant
Wow! What a nice post. I hope AYC comes back soon, we all miss her/him very much.November 22, 2011 6:52 am at 6:52 am #839849TheGoqParticipant
We will welcome back AYC with open arms, i don’t blame the Mods or Jothar for what happened they were trying to protect us. I said some harsh things about Jothar and for that i am sorry.November 22, 2011 7:47 am at 7:47 am #839850chocandpatienceMember
happy to hear!
thank you for your menshlichkeit, 42.
(and a good thread title)November 22, 2011 7:56 am at 7:56 am #839851
Well, well, well…
My question to the mods is:
Why did you make a brouhaha BEFORE verifying the facts? Many posters told you to handle this privately and yet you/Jothar chose to go public.
The lesson to be learned is: “A person is innocent until proven guilty”.
I don’t know who this Joseph guy is, and what his crimes are, but your continuous warnings about him, smack of sentationalism. It might attract some posters, but most people are sick of the stalking, hacking, harassing warnings. You make it sound as if there’s a lurker at every street corner.
Caution yes, hyperbole NO!
Thank you for your input Joseph 🙂 – The ModsNovember 22, 2011 8:40 am at 8:40 am #839852
Mods, you’re lucky you put a smiley after your comment 🙂November 22, 2011 8:58 am at 8:58 am #839853Shticky GuyParticipant
Our Dear Am Yisrael Chai: I have tears in my eyes as I write this. AYC you probably have not been reading the coffeeroom while you were blocked. But I tell you, it was a very boring place. For two reasons. Firstly and foremostly because you were missing. There was nobody helping posters like you always did. Nobody was posting rhymes and puzzles in the way only you know how. And we were missing your unique way and sense of humor and sharpness. Secondly it was a VERY boring place because… most of the posts at the top of the cr page were all about you! We couldnt get off the topic! And apart from two or three posters with doubts, everyone else was CONVINCED of your innocence and were just waiting for this thread to arrive!
Besides for a couple of posters, NOBODY doubted your innocence. We only couldnt understand why your complete vindication was taking so long. Even the mods did not suspect AYC. They only suspected Joseph and thought that your sweet helpful nature was a cover for his nefarious methods.
So PLEASE come back to us! Hashiveinu eilecha… Chadesh yameinu kikedem! AYC – AYeCo? Begin a thread saying “I AM BACK”!
Mods Please email this post to him in case he’s not visiting here at the moment. Thank you.November 22, 2011 9:22 am at 9:22 am #839854kapustaParticipant
the name of a poster who was, arguably, perhaps the most popular and loved poster in the CR over the past few months. AYC was a friend, and a virtual shoulder we all leaned on. We enjoyed AYC’s wealth of compliments and help.
AYC: As someone who has learned, gained very much x2 and is possibly one of your biggest fans, I must say that while I would completely understand if you choose not to post anymore, I’m still hoping you will. You’ve contributed so much to the CR, and I think everyone would love to see you continue posting. I don’t want to push you to do something you don’t feel comfortable doing, but know that if you choose to stop posting, you will be sorely missed. You add(ed) so much around here.
I must say, the CR has changed a lot over the time I’ve been here, and the thought to stop posting was definitely there. When I heard the good news, it added a lot of points to the “stay” side.November 22, 2011 9:24 am at 9:24 am #839855NechomahParticipant
Mods – I don’t think it’s necessary to acute each person who criticizes what happened these past weeks with AYC as being Joseph. I also feel that it was not handled in the ideal way. Privately – perhaps by sending each participant in the CR a cautionary email to their registered email – while time consuming for sure, might have been a better way to have deal with the whole issue. If Joseph is as smart as you claim him to be, I would imagine that he’s out there biding his time until our caution levels drop and we go back to our old ways of communicating with each other. The constant accusations smack of insecurity and panic to me and not as an effective warning for the people who need it. As for me, I’m a little tired of all the bickering about the whole thing.November 22, 2011 11:56 am at 11:56 am #839856
Shticky guy, I’m sure AYC is moved by your warm words, it’s beautifully written.
Nechomah, I appreciate your post…November 22, 2011 12:20 pm at 12:20 pm #839857ZeesKiteParticipant
I wrote about his/her innocence here, two days ago.
And no, Joseph is NOT a dangerous person, right Joseph?November 22, 2011 1:21 pm at 1:21 pm #839858
am yisrael chai-
Sometimes a person doesn’t even know how to sufficiently apologize, but still I need to try:
I humbly and sincerely ask for your mechila for anything I may have written over the last week or two that in any way added to the awful time you have gone thru.
I also apologize for “sins of omission”, where I could have written something helpful or done something more, and didn’t.
The tzar you have been put thru, on top of the personal losses you have had is terrible. Please forgive us.
In the short time you have been here, you have quickly become one of the most popular posters on this site – personally, I am more likely to go view a thread if I see your SN there.
Please return and resume posting here; you were missed and the site is better with you here.
As I posted on a different thread a couple of years ago, I’m not above bribery – b”n I’ll make an extra contribution to the pushka at our minyan if you return.
Let’s let this be a mussar haskail about what being dan l’kaf zchus means, and the awfulness of being choished b’kshairim.November 22, 2011 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #839859BaalHaboozeParticipant
YAAAAAAAAAAAY!! What a happy day!!!I loooove Tuesdays!!
I am SOOOO happy AYC is cleared and this is all history. I missed him so much and couldn’t help thinking about him this entire weekend including on Shabbos. AYC if you’re reading this, I hope you are okay and we want you to know that we all want you back so badly!!
thank you mod42 for your sincerity, I understand that all the coincidential circumstances that led you to beleive all that, and that you were doing your job to protect.I sure am glad it is all over…….that is until AYC returns, which I hope he does very soon.
Shicky Guy: +1
Mod42: +1November 22, 2011 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #839860
If I was in ayc’s shoes, I probally would have been long gone. How possibly can a human go through reading five threads of harrasment, and false accusations all day long. I haven’t posted anything about ayc hence this reasoning, and B”H I was right. I personally think the Mods should Delete every single one of those posts which are bickering belittling and bashing ayc. No need to keep the wound open.November 22, 2011 2:09 pm at 2:09 pm #839861mik5Participant
I’m not in on CR politics. Can someone please explain what happened and what the situation was, or can I read up on it in one of the threads?November 22, 2011 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm #839862BTGuyParticipant
Hi AYC. I am very sorry you had to go through this nonsense!!!!
I think those who created this problem for AYC, because they did it in public, owe AYC a public apology and then an apology to the rest of us for violation of shmiras haloshon violations all over the place. I hope they learned a serious lesson for creating a serious mess.
It seems AYC was the one not safe from those purporting to have our safety in mind.
“Dont trust leaders and watch your parking meters” ~ Baruch Dylan
Hi moi aussie. You are 110% correct!!November 22, 2011 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #839863HaLeiViParticipant
I think Real has a real good point. Just delete the whole thread. That conversation got nowhere, anyhow.
What I cannot understand is that the same thing keeps on happenning, and with the same self-confidence. There’s a world of a difference between suspecting and knowing. How can you act against a person without knowing!?
Another point: I never found Joseph to be that conniving. His personality and style shone through every one of his screen names, even if it took some time to happen. Graphologists know that even when someone tries to imitate another handwriting, their own will eventually come out here and there.
Jothar mentioned that Joseph got member’s emails from the inside. That is not such a great accomplishment. Nothing points to advanced computer hacking. Therefore, when you come across someone with a completely, and steadily different personality, don’t be quick to jump the gun over IPs or other small change.November 22, 2011 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #8398642scentsParticipant
First, I think that it takes a lot of courage to come out and admit that the assumption was wrong.
so lets all applaud 42 for that.
next, lets move on, what has been done has been done. the best way to clean this would be by not discussing this.November 22, 2011 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #839865Avram in MDParticipant
And no, Joseph is NOT a dangerous person, right Joseph?
I confess that I have been interested in exposing the “Joseph” sock puppet accounts in the past, but stopped for two reasons.
1.) I realized after mistakenly labeling a poster as “Joseph” while following a mod’s lead in the past (sorry again, real-brisker!), that one of his tactics is to ensure a lot of collateral damage if anyone ever makes a concerted effort to find all of his screennames. Unfortunately, Am Yisrael Chai is probably the greatest victim of this collateral damage (Shticky Guy makes this point well when he notes that the mods suspected Joseph).
2.) Around the same time, I tried direct questions to Joseph because I wanted to know why he played his games, and got this creepy response.
As for why I was interested in exposing the Joseph sock puppets at all, I felt offended because he purported to be “defending” the Torah’s honor through using his less than savory methods, which undercut the message and ultimately was a chillul Hashem. I also feared that he was launching a straw-man sybil attack on Torah values – drumming up opposition to Torah true positions by presenting them in a confrontational, inflammatory manner.
To me, disrupting the CR and causing chillul Hashem is “dangerous” enough, but apparently other things have been going on behind the scenes as well.
That said, while I have obviously been on the side of those urging caution on the CR, I did not feel that the matter with AYC should have been handled in such a public manner. I agree with YW Moderator-42’s new position that suspected sock puppet accounts will be dealt with silently and via e-mail correspondence. I also agree with those who have said that threads more conducive to sharing personal details (rather than opinions/positions on issues) should receive more special care from the moderators, and perhaps a notice in the thread if things are getting out of hand or seem “off.”November 22, 2011 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #839866Avram in MDParticipant
Just delete the whole thread. That conversation got nowhere, anyhow.
I think the conversation (assuming you’re talking about the “Be aware of stalkers/info stealers” thread) was an important one, but got seriously off track with the AYC/Joseph stuff. I agreed with what Jothar initially wrote:
Unfortunately, this has happened here in the CR, no need to mention names[emphasis mine]
So I feel the thread itself should stay, but all of the personal stuff should be deleted, including not only the things written about AYC, but some nasty stuff written about Jothar, too.November 22, 2011 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #839867☕️coffee addictParticipant
This other poster had posted her email address in a thread and ayc contacted her afterwards.
are the mods slacking off on their duties?
NO PERSONAL POSTS SHOULD EVER BE ALLOWEDNovember 22, 2011 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #839868☕️coffee addictParticipant
I’m sorry AYC that I was mekabel motzei sheim ra about you I hope you forgive meNovember 22, 2011 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #839869soliekMember
oh just set me loose on joseph…id love a chance to out joseph joseph…
you want to deal with joseph for once and for all? post every shred of personal information you have thats absolutely confirmed about joseph and let us rip him to pieces…id love a shotNovember 22, 2011 4:00 pm at 4:00 pm #839870
HaLeiVi – Thanks for the haskamh.November 22, 2011 4:02 pm at 4:02 pm #839871
Avram – If I had to be your korbon its ok, everyone has to go through sucha a phase in their CR excperince. So it really doesn’t matter who its from. (I actually reread that thread., and it looks like the mods deleted those posts)November 22, 2011 4:28 pm at 4:28 pm #839872ZeesKiteParticipant
As I wrote before, I knew AYC’s innocence right from the beginning. Call that intuition (either divine or …) Call that common sense.
Originally, I penned a letter to be posted, I saved it then removed it from posting. It was too strong. I feel now maybe some could use it. Another point – certain Mods think all I have to offer is drivel, so write it off as such. Anyways here’s what I intended to write.
===== ===== =====
to Health, Jother, Mods etc.
Kindly give me one more chance. No. No one contacted me to write this. To the contrary, I was counseled not to, as doing so might smear my name too. You know what? “A FEIG!”. Someone’s in a bind, tzara, maybe in a depressing state now, I gotta do what I can. (The taskmasters in Mitzraim let themselves be struck rather then their fellow Yid). Again let me state, I do not know AYC at all. I’ve just followed his/her posts along for a long time.
I’m not so fluent in Halacha (putting it mildly), but is that the din, “..the burden of proof is on him right now to prove he isn’t one..”? Maybe the burden of proof is on those that want to shake up this whole place! Is EVERY WORD written in every thread analyzed by Sherlock Jothar and Watson Health (magnifying glass and kit included, no extra charge). Does one lose ???? ????? (I think that’s the word!) for writing ONE EXTRA WORD?!?
As in the words of Jothar – ‘I’m still awaiting word from the Mods’ – that (s)he IS suspect. Until then one mustn’t make any conclusions.
Your Joseph has been found, you keep referring to him with all sorts of threats, prosecution, jail, Otisville (it’s a grand place, btw) etc. You got him. You know who he is, where he is, exactly what he did. OK. Now what? You seem to have a need to trumpet that fact, over and over. Back and forth, between Mod and Jothar.
I have a true suspicion over one poster who casts so much suspicion into the fray. Does it say somewhere ?????? ????? If one hears a statement over and over, there’s something to look into…
As for AYC, his/her peaceful history goes back a long way. He/she did not make me feel the slightest uncomfortable. Cannot say that about today’s ‘posters-in-the-know’.
It’s not so becoming for one to come out of nowhere (OK, you were here 6 months ago) and say “Well if you don’t like it, go vote with your feet”. Maybe the reverse? The one who wasn’t posting for the past 6 months should continue doing so, and leave us be.
===== ===== =====
That’s what I intended to write. I didn’t.November 22, 2011 5:01 pm at 5:01 pm #839873HealthParticipant
ZK – “I’m not so fluent in Halacha (putting it mildly), but is that the din, “..the burden of proof is on him right now to prove he isn’t one..”? Maybe the burden of proof is on those that want to shake up this whole place! Is EVERY WORD written in every thread analyzed by Sherlock Jothar and Watson Health (magnifying glass and kit included, no extra charge). Does one lose ???? ????? (I think that’s the word!) for writing ONE EXTRA WORD?!?”
Besides the fancy dressup -your post is extremly demeaning. I have never posted anything derogatory against AYC -all I said is – he has to explain what he meant when he wrote he is a Kletzky. The fact that he was found to be upstanding does Not excuse that post. He might have made a mistake -he might have meant something else – I don’t know, but it is his job to explain it, not mine or s/o else or the Mods!November 22, 2011 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #839874HaLeiViParticipant
Huh? Why does s/he have to ‘explain’ anything? Is someone an assumed liar until proven otherwise!!?November 22, 2011 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #839875HealthParticipant
HaLeiVi -The Mods found out -he isn’t.November 28, 2011 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #839876
am yisrael chai-
It’s been a week since your ‘official” vindication, and as happy as we were for that, we are most definitely not happy that you (understandably) have still not posted here since then.
I believe many posters have learned a lesson about being “dan l’kaf zchus”, unfortunately at your painful expense.
Mechila must be requested more than once, so once again I request:
Please consider saying “mochul loch” and returning. I realize it won’t be easy, but we honestly regret what we put you through.
A lot of people (including yours truly) would greatly appreciate it if you did so.
Thank you.November 29, 2011 8:34 am at 8:34 am #839877
ICOT, very nicely written. I’m sure ayc reads all our postings, and you never know whose kind words will convince him/her to come back.December 5, 2011 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #839878
am yisrael chai-
On behalf of myself and all others here who have treated you unfairly and hurt you, I once again apologize.
Please consider returning to post here, the sooner the better.
All of us enjoy your posts, and even more importantly, there are people who are having a tough time with things and/or are in real distress who you have helped with thoughtful and insightful words.
Although wanting to help others feel better about things is a trait many of us have, far fewer of us actually have the talent to do so.
It would be a real shame if the person who has on many occasions cheered up others with a kind word no longer drops in here.
Thank you.December 5, 2011 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #839879
Thank you – I hope so.December 5, 2011 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #839880
I don’t think AYC will be back. Maybe with a screen name change. But as AYC? Doubt it.December 6, 2011 4:26 am at 4:26 am #839881llbeanfanMember
I’m not either a frequent coffee roomer- in a nutshell-what happened with this whole ayc thing-any thread to look at? It sounds like there’s serious drama going on here!December 6, 2011 1:19 pm at 1:19 pm #839882NechomahParticipant
llbean – if you weren’t here during the situation, there’s no need for us to rehash it for you. Suffice it to say that someone has been unfairly accused of something and 42 is trying to make amends. Anything more is pure loshon hara.December 6, 2011 7:28 pm at 7:28 pm #839883
I hope he does return, although it is understandable if he doesn’t.
If not a “full” return, a post granting mechila to us would be appreciated – even indirectly, e.g. thru a friend or moderator.
Well put.December 6, 2011 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #839884🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
Nechomah – Thank youDecember 6, 2011 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #839885
ICOT: I did not say that I do not hope for his return. Just that I don’t expect it. Remember a month or two before this latest incident blew up, AYC took a couple of weeks off after taking offense to one word from 42. After the extended bizyonos from this maaseh, I’m not holding my breath.December 6, 2011 11:26 pm at 11:26 pm #839886
I understood your earlier post – I certainly didn’t think you were saying he shouldn’t return, only that you thought he wouldn’t.
Sorry if my previous response wasn’t worded clearly.December 14, 2011 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #839887
am yisrael chai-
A week from today is the first day of Chanuka.
As an early present for for us posters, how about dropping by?
We’d like to hear from you.December 14, 2011 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #839888
ICOT: That’s a great idea. Chanukah is a great time for all of us to be b’simcha – and that means having AYC come back!December 15, 2011 1:30 am at 1:30 am #839889Ken ZaynMember
Here here! Come back and come back now! Show us you are alive and have read the many many threads and posts where we show our disgust at what has happened. We’re all on your side.
ICOT: AYC may be of the chanuka gelt custom and could be opposed to chanuka presents so he may not be wanting to give us a present. So let me say: AYC, I will accept gelt off you any time, buddy!December 15, 2011 5:48 am at 5:48 am #839890sem graduateMember
For those who did not yet notice. AYC came back a while ago…December 15, 2011 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #839891
real israeli – can you tell us where he is?December 15, 2011 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #839892sem graduateMember
gefen: check out the 2nd post on the AYC AYeCo threadDecember 15, 2011 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #839893
RI: Huh?December 15, 2011 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #839894
real: i’d love to if i could find it. can you post the link here?
Wait – I found it – but the second post is:
I don’t get it. Why does that mean that ayc posted?
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