Ok…About The Whole Hair Measuring Thing…Please Help Me Understand 👧📏✂️

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    Shopping613 🌠

    1. Why does it bother so many people that there is a school in a city across the world that has a rule you don’t agree with?
    2. Why wrote the halachic article” about long hair? I didn’t see one source talking about why long hair is bad, and the last time I got a list from a teacher it was quite long. Hello? I’m confused. I’m sure someone here has a source…or two…or five.
    3. Why are people calling it “barbaric” or “dehumanizing” to measure hair? I mean they have meassured skirts for about 20 years or so. This isn’t news.
    4. If you don’t like the school, don’t send you kid there…um, is someone forcing you to send your kid there?
    5. If the rule was put in place only AFTER you sent your kid there…that’s life. I mean like, what? Do you expect the principal to read the anonymous snarky comments on the article on YWN?
    6. If you really have a problem with it, what are you gaining by ranting about it on facebook? Call up the school and be a mentsch.
    7. Why are people saying that this is causing girls to go OTD? I mean, I highly doubt it. Following rules doesn’t make girls go OTD. Following rules that parents disregard or make fun of can lead to confusion, frustraton, mistrust at the school and parents for saying contradictory things…and going OTD.

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕

    1. Several reasons, including insecurity about their own frumkeit, genuine concern for the girls, anger at authority, and I’m sure others.
    2. Rabbi Yair Hoffman. If you have a list of sources, please post them.
    The truth is, that in areas regarding tznius, there is a lot which is based on perception and context. I would guess that a good percentage of posters in the CR (or family members) have certain sensitivities in tznius which are not found in Shulchan Aruch, but as soon as it’s a certain amount beyond what someone is used to, it becomes a silly chumra.
    3. I’m sure it’s not comfortable, and people like to exaggerate.
    4. It’s not easy to get into schools in Lakewood. Also, if in fact the girls were humiliated (which I’m not accepting based on what I’ve seen), the fact that there may be other choices isn’t an excuse.
    5. I don’t think people expect the principals to read YWN, they just want to vent.
    6. Some people don’t know the school, and others are too cowardly.
    7. OTD has been proven to be caused by whatever happens to be your pet peeves. Same with the shidduch crisis.


    My opinion on this whole thing-
    K, so at first I was really mad when I saw the video. RIght? Along with everyone else
    But now I think it may have been a mother measuring her own daughters hair and the school didnt force measuring (I hope I’m right)
    But the school still has a dress code which says hair cant be more than four inches past the shoulder. Which I think is completely unfair. Its an added chumrah based on nothing. And it’s not something that you can just do for school. Like my school we need to wear our hair up. But I can take it out as soon as I get home. So it doesnt bother me as much. cutting hair is much more permenant.
    I probably forgot to sayhalf the stuff on my mind and what I did write was a big mush but hopefully you get the idea 🙂


    1. Who said its across the world
    2. The article said that there IS NOT an issue with long hair as long as its worn appropriately
    3. measuring skirts is just as bad in my opinion… just look if its tznius thats all no ruler. But also hair is more permenant, a skirt can be changed when you get home.
    4. Where else should they go?
    5. They actua;;y stopped measuring it after it went viral
    6. People did
    7. Might not cause OTD but will definitely cause frustration at being forced to keep above and beyond the actual halacha


    This video brings a larger issue to light, posting on social media.

    People must realize the ramifications of putting things out in the public on social media. Everyone must ask themselves before posting something, am I being mikadish sheim shomyim or am I being michalel sheim shomyim. Please please don’t post something that can portray Klal Yisroel and by extension Hashem in a negative light. Chazal tell us that chilul Hashem is so serious an aveira that nothing is michaper until yom hamisa. It would be appropriate for us all to take stock of the ramifications of our actions and not chas vshalom thoughtlessly post something that can lead to chilul Hashem, lashon horah and motzei shem ra.


    So long hair is the underlying cause of the shidduch crisis in Lakewood?? I would think the real cause is the absence of “real’ beards” among the BMG crowd (aka facial hair cut too short)


    1. I agree with DY other reasons include concern for innovations no different than when people are concerned for OO innovations. furthermore it leads to confusion as you say in #2 ” also see #2 “Hello? I’m confused.” you dont know what is halacha and what is chumra anymore.
    2. I agree with DY
    3. I dont know about barbaric but it is “dehumanizing” and embarrassing. I spoke to several female family members who have gone to BY’s over the past 20 years (though not in the same city as this one) none of them had ever had anything measured and all thought this was dehumanizing
    4. I agree with DY
    5. I agree with DY. though should point out that apparently after this went viral the school changed their policy
    6. Lol! that is a good one. It is more likely someone (without $$$) who called the school would be told “If you don’t like the school, don’t send you kid there…um, is someone forcing you to send your kid there?” (for the answer see #4)
    7. I agree with DY. Though would add feeling dehumanized in the name of religion. and coming out confused as to what is halacha vs chumra vs shtus cant be good for remaining frum



    Posting on Social media went live to remind people that:
    1)they are being watched by Hashem 24-7 & you can’t hide from Hashem for Hashem sees everything &
    2)to put pressure on people & let them know that if they do not act properly-as in this case & thousands more-then it will be found out all over the world in just a few hours & they will have alot of remorse & its really not worth it so just be an honest person & do what is the right thing & NOT what YOU want to do. trust me its just not worth it, a persons entire life can go down the drain over 1 stupid thing (as in this case over measuring innocent girls hair & the bad name it has put on this school forever & has been read & video watched WORLDWIDE)



    Hi Shopping!
    I don’t mean to derail your thread but I have a question for you.
    You asked some good questions. You got some good answers. Here’s my question-
    There’s a lot of talk about the causes of OTD. DY says (tongue in cheek?) that the cause is whatever your pet peeve is. I think that with a problem as serious as this, some straight talk and clear thinking would be a good idea. As you may have noticed yourself from reactions to the hair measuring fiasco, many people say that telling our kids what they can and cannot do will make them go off the derech. There’s a wave of permissiveness aiming to combat this, with parents encouraged to indulge their child’s every whim (new car? – no problem. new jeans? -I’ll take you out and buy as many pairs as your heart desires. trashed the new car? – no problem, we’ll replace it. want some piercings to match those jeans? -let’s go!) the prevailing wisdom being that as long as our children never hear the words “no I won’t allow that” we can eradicate OTD.
    Then I read Shopping’s words,
    “Following rules doesn’t make girls go OTD.”
    Can you explain Shopping613?
    I’m genuinely interested in your perspective and insights.


    The Beis Yaakov is 100% correct.


    “the prevailing wisdom being that as long as our children never hear the words “no I won’t allow that” we can eradicate OTD.”

    I dont think that is the prevailing wisdom.

    The issue here is it is important that we teach halacha and then strive towards chumra growing beyond the minimum. When the halacha keeps changing it makes the whole thing sound fake. Rabbi Resiman said this in a during hsi motzoei Shabbos shiur towards the beginning of last year. First the halacha was skirts have to cover the knee then the halcha became past the knee now it is taught 4 inches past the knee (unless it has gone further by now). This leads to confusion and certainly has potential to lead to rejection. Look at the OP who readily admits regarding the very issue she is commenting on “Hello? I’m confused.” Thats isnt to say all people with confusion go OTD, but it is troubling that a graduate of our school system is “confused” about such a basic issue. Is it any wonder if someone weaker, who is similarly confused decides the reverse that if this has no source, then probably covering hair after marriage has no source and who knows what else.

    I dont think anyone says saying ““no I won’t allow that” causes kids to go OTD. The concern is arbitrarily saying ““no I won’t allow that” and when standards seem to shift arbitrarily is (part of) what causes (some) kids to go OTD.


    I don’t know the reason for the rule nor do I care to find out. If a mother is measuring her own daughter’s hair so that it is in compliance with the school rules, KOL HAKOVOD to that mother and to her daughter(s).

    To the person who sent out this video through Social Media, please do something to clarify why you sent it without stating all the facts.


    I don’t think anyone is claiming that there is a halachic prohibition of unmarried women having long hair. The issue is whether the school’s grooming and dress code is permittable by halacha (probably yes, schools of all ideologies and religion do such things), and whether the manner of carrying it out is acceptable by Jewish standards (a different question). As long as it doesn’t violate halacha, Jewish school can make rules (even arbitrary and capricious ones) , just like all other private schools – even if such rules are not required by halacha.

    Shopping613 🌠

    Hey golfer
    So basically I think what is causing kids to go OTD is when they hear contradictory things. Such as hearing a rule from a school then hearing their own parents bash it by saying it’s wrong, unbiased on hlacha, bad, extreme, etc.

    What causes a stable kid is when the important people in their life are on the same page and they listen to the child and their needs. Not every kid should go to the same high school or yeshiva.

    Of course you can disagree with some decisions or rules. But you need to do it nicely. With the agree to disagree attitude. Not negativity and outright put downs that confuse the child. Forgrt it if the entire Internet is bashing a child’s authority figure….

    Oh and DY I have questions back for yours. I’m just on busses and out so I can’t write that now. Bezras Hashem I can respond in a few hours.


    Thanks Shopping.
    Especially in light of the fact that, as you point out, there’s a lot of bashing of authority figures going on. The fact that parents may be whispering behind their children’s backs and trying to keep their kids off the internet might not be enough to curb the damage.
    Hope you come join us again when you’re off the bus.
    And may all our tefillos for our children and our children’s children be answered with boundless chessed even if we’re undeserving.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    golfer – many people speak out very strongly against those who have that permissive attitude but I feel like you left out the middle route. Shopping is harping more on schools making rules and parents disrespecting them and the authority figures who enforce them.

    The problem that I think is being referred to here is that schools can have rules, and parents need to support them, and kids can handle that, but when schools make rules and are: 1) not clear about defining what is Halacha and what is a school rule, 2) clear but wrong in labeling non halachos as halachos, (perhaps hoping for compliance?) 3) using humiliation to enforce rules.

    I have mentioned before that I know a boy who was sent home DURING DAVENING (from a dorm, one hour walk from his home) for wearing socks that are not halachically problematic but are a problem at that school. Is the yeshiva allowed to have such rules? of course. Will that rule make a kid go OTD? of course not. Will throwing a kid out of the bais medrash during davening, in front of everyone, sending him on a one hour walk that with no doubt meant missing mussaf send a kid OTD? Whatever your answer, I believe you understand the point being made.

    Kids can deal with a rogue staff member but depending how many, how often, and how humiliating (besides how inappropriate…) may answer that question.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    “When the halacha keeps changing it makes the whole thing sound fake”
    Yes! that is the problem many kids face, the perceived changing makes the whole thing sound fake.

    Shopping613 🌠

    I’be got two minutes to add to syags post.

    I do think it would be better if things were outlines better. In 12th grade my school totally redid the rule book and separating things under 3 catrgories;

    – uniform/ in school rules
    – halacha
    – hashkafa aka chumrah.

    How a bas yisroel should act out of school and rules about Internet etc was a seperate. And everyth8bg has sources or letters from rabanim in the rule phamlet.

    If your school doesn’t do this perhaps call them up and request them to. When I send my kids to school one day I will ask them to do that and even offer to write the phamlet for them. 8f that doesn’t go well i would sit with my kids and go through each rule and have a discussion.

    Whoever got thrown out for wearing the wrong pair of socks that was about uniform. He knew he could get thrown out as did we when we tried to skirt the rules. No one was surprised.

    Parents should take the responsibility to make sure there kids adhere to uniform and let them know if they skirt the rules any issues are their fault.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    ” Whoever got thrown out for wearing the wrong pair of socks that was about uniform. He knew he could get thrown out as did we when we tried to skirt the rules. No one was surprised. Parents should take the responsibility to make sure there kids adhere to uniform and let them know if they skirt the rules any issues are their fault.”
    You are way off. And once again you speak as if you were there, tossing aside someone elses experience as if it was nothing. May be worth a re-read or a humbling “it seems to me” before your responses.
    No, he didn’t know he would be thrown out because it wasn’t clear enough of a violation. No, you don’t kick people out of Davening before musaf and send them packing for a one hour walk that will ensure they miss musaf for a “uniform violation”.
    No, it is not true that no one was surprised. People were horrified. It was a very damaging experience to both student and spectators.
    Their parents are responsible, the rules just change across staff members, students, and time.


    “Such as hearing a rule from a school then hearing their own parents bash it by saying it’s wrong, unbased on halacha, bad, extreme, etc”

    I couldnt agree more.
    The issue though is, what should parents do if a school says not having hair 4 inches past shoulders is halacha (im not saying this school said that) and the child asks her parent if this is true. should they lie?

    I dont think chinuch is 100% the purview of the school, parents have a role too. And parents are at an advantage in some ways as it is easier to personalize the chinuch and deliver nuance. IT is easier for the school to say “The policy is no hair longer than 4 inches past the shoulders as is required al p ihalacha by all bnos Yisroel” Than to deliver nuance. Parents are better equipped to deliver nuance to their child. Though it has to be done carefully.

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕

    DY says (tongue in cheek?) that the cause is whatever your pet peeve is.

    I’m pretty sure nobody blames OTD on things being done the way they want it to.

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕

    Ubiquitin, interesting that you agreed with #2, yet added to #1 that there’s confusion about chumra vs. halachah. If the standards in a certain place are a certain way, going below those standards becomes a violation of halachah.

    I’m not saying that’s necessarily the case here, but neither do we know that this was presented as halachah.

    I think there’s no question that how someone wears their hair can be tzniusdik or untzniusdik (aside from the chiyuv for married women to cover it), and despite the fact that there’s no specific halachah addressing it, it can be a violation of tznius to wear the hair a certain way, depending on the minhag hamakom.

    Someone may feel that a specific number is arbitrary, but there has to be a line somewhere.


    And a small PS to Syag,
    Telling teen age boys what socks they can wear doesn’t fall into any of the categories I discussed. No connection to Halacha, minhag, chumra, or hashkafa..
    IMNSHO this is plain narishkeit.
    I would hesitate to embarrass the young man in question in the manner in which it was done if he had transgressed an actual issur. But for this narishkeit? Please.


    The measuring thing makes no sense to me. Whether or not the hair length is proper depends on how it looks. So look.


    Syag, I think we can both agree that the middle road, as in most cases, is the best.
    And the socks story does leave me puzzled. Socks? Maybe we just need to leave our kids alone. Sounds a bit excessive.
    Shopping, I liked what you said but there’s one part of your post that I objected to. (Are you still riding a bus? Might’ve been a slip of the mouse.)-
    Hashkafa and chumra are two very different things and there’s no equating the two. Hashkafa is your outlook on life, how you define various subjects such as you connection to HKBH, your connection to Torah, your identity as a member of klal Yisrael, the synthesis of ruchniyus and gashmiyus both of which are necessary parts of your life and impose different, sometimes opposing obligations and restrictions on your daily life. You get the idea.
    Chumros are physical restrictions that go beyond the actual letter of the law (or Halacha) that are imposed for various reasons, most notably to keep us away from the point where we may come to transgress and commit an aveira. There are restrictions that some consider Halacha and other people classify as chumra, which is why it’s always good to have your own LOR to identify what’s what. A lot of practices that are part of the original subject at hand, namely tznius, fall into this category.
    A practice is either Halacha le’Moshe mi’Sinai or it’s not. But Halacha is not a matter of hashkafa, or one’s own personal outlook on life. It’s a matter of studying the relevant sources, beginning with Torah Shebiksav and through the full body of Torah Shebe’alpeh, and coming to the correct conclusion, a daunting task best left to a Rav who has dedicated years of his life to the pursuit of this knowledge.
    Chumros, or added stringencies, are a matter of minhag, family practices passed on through the generations, or minhag hamakom, those accepted in a particular location or community. A lot of the confusion today stems from the amazing advances in transportation and communication making the world a very small place and bringing together people from distant communities that in the past had very little to do with one another. We have unprecedented opportunities to come together in beautiful displays of achdus, and also unprecedented opportunities to become very confused as to how a G-d fearing, Torah observing Jew looks and acts.
    Saying you reject a certain practice because it’s not in line with your personal haskafa is just plain wrong. Finding a Rav who will quantify and qualify observance of Torah and Mitzvos for you is a much better route.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    “And a small PS to Syag,”

    thanks for the hug…


    A minhag or chumra that a kehila maintains becomes actual Halacha.


    The School has every right to make this rule, the question is IMO should. I personally dont think very many people will keep more mitzvoh because of it, However I do think it might cause some to leave. Excessive chumras is not THE cause of OTDness, however it is a cause (There are many causes). A person can find out this is a chumras and not a halacha and then not belive anything else you say


    A minhag develops the status of a din in shulchan aruch for a member of a kehilla where the minhag has been maintained.
    Questions arise today when the borders between kehillos overlap or intertwine or become blurred. A Rav can answer your questions about whether and to what extent you need to observe the minhag of not eating gebroktz on Pesach the same way he can pasken regarding the quantity of wine in the kos you use for arba kosos.
    And a person has to have a very authoritative voice with the backing of a vast amount of Torah learning to attempt to establish new minhagim in our generation. It’s one thing to decide that in your own home you might like your wife to prepare a particular dish that you and your kids enjoy in the Sukkah and another thing to insist that all your neighbors start following the same recipe. As for socks… I think I’m done with those.

    The little I know


    You wrote: “As long as it doesn’t violate halacha, Jewish school can make rules (even arbitrary and capricious ones) , just like all other private schools – even if such rules are not required by halacha.”

    I take strong issue with this. I know I will be drowned out, but I am fully aware that it is Elul, and I cannot accept concepts that are blatantly wrong. My conscience is perfectly clear.

    As a private school, these yeshivos and schools certainly CAN make any rules they wish. Unless, of course, the rules themselves violate halacha. But SHOULD they? I believe that these rules that are arbitrary, contribute zero to ruchniyus, do not make talmidim/os feel welcome, appreciated, and do not otherwise benefit the talmidim are destructive. They prove to the world, and to the neshamos the schools are supposed to value, that the image of the yeshiva and its administration reign supreme. Rules that do not benefit the student body are not just useless, but are potentially destructive.

    In too many cases, rules are there to boast to other mosdos that this one is better, holier, and more machmir. In too many cases, these rules serve to exclude some, punish others, and embarrass a whole lot more. And in my book, exclusion, punishment, and shame are severely negative factors in chinuch (I include parents in this, not just yeshivos).

    I noted this many times before in other threads, but we are presently gifted to have a substantial selection of seforim from Gedolei Yisroel or our generation and few previous ones onthe subject of chinuch. These are precious reservoirs of Torah guidance on how to be mechanech (again both parents and yeshivos). Their knowledge and wisdom is Torah derived, so no one has a complaint that these are modern or secular. NONE of them accept the types of exclusion, punishment, or shaming that are commonplace in today’s yeshivos and schools. We are busy questioning whether today’s yeshivos can make rules. Yes, they can. They can require all pens be blue ink or black ink. They can require pencils to have erasers or not. They can require yarmulkas to be certain colors, sizes, and number of sections. They are not public servants, but purveyors of private enterprises. They are not עוסקים בצרכי ציבור. The special שכר granted to עוסקים בצרכי ציבור does not apply to them. So they CAN make such rules. But if we examine whether these rules are of benefit to the mission that one would expect them to have, as providing an opportunity to the younger generation to be connected to the mesora of Torah from Har Sinai, they fail completely. And it is a real shame, because they can choose to be that conduit. They can choose to be a public service, but they opt out of that.

    I am not addressing any individual yeshiva or school. I speak to the trend that has gripped them all, not different from the addictions that affect so many. To justify that which is destructive is what the drug addict does when he/she risks death or injury with each high.

    For those who would attack me that I am being motzi shem rah, I assure you that I have no such intention. I beg that we recognize the great potential that every yeshiva has, as a prime source of עידוד וחיזוק to every single neshomoh, to help each child learn to enjoy Torah and Mitzvos, and grow in Ahavas Hashem and Yir’as Hashem. To divert the energy to these small matters strips the potential of the yeshiva from accomplishing the mission for which it is needed.


    “Someone may feel that a specific number is arbitrary, but there has to be a line somewhere.”

    Im not sure There HAS to be a number. As a kid We couldn’t have a yarmulke that was “too small” the Rebbi decided what was too small and quietly told those who needed larger one. there was no rulers involved and we werent lined up in front of our peers to have them literately shatz up how frum we were.

    Rebyid put it best ” Whether or not the hair length is proper depends on how it looks. So look.”

    Shopping613 🌠

    Syag- the way they threw him out was definitely wrong. No matter what rule you break. That has nothing to do with what he did. A school should never throw out and embaress someone publicly. Sorry if I didn’t mention that part. I was just thinking about how we got sent home in high school for socks and shoes…but it was never like that.

    The little I know

    A friend told me about a rebbe he had that walked into class, and almost every bochur was wearing a rather small yarmulka. One of those bochurim had parents who had traveled to Israel, and brought back this package of kipot for their son and his entire class. The rebbe sat down, took out a dime from his pocket, gazed back and forth at the coin and yarmulkas. The bochurim all changed to their regular yarmulkas. Not a word spoken. No one embarrassed. No discipline – just simple, basic education.

    Any rebbeim like this left? Or are we too busy legislating, imposing, and focused on control?


    One point some of you are forgetting is that when a teacher quietly pulls aside a girl telling her that her hair is too long, there will invariably be comparisons and kvetching of “why just me” etc. — behavior every parent with more than one child is familiar with. Rulers don’t lie, so it’s actually easier for girls to accept.

    Additionally, since the hair was measured before the school year started, there’s really no embarassment involved since no rule was broken yet. And hair, unlike Yarmulkes which was used as an example, actually grows. Which means it’s very easy for it to become too long. So among her peers, parents and faculty it’s taken in stride, with no reason for shame.

    Yes, once taken to task, it needs to be corrected to follow the school rule, but girls generally make light of the whole issue – whether we want them to or not – or worst case scenario give an exaggerated sigh…

    Most of you are overestimating the fragility of our Bais Yaakov girls.

    Shopping613 🌠

    1. Genuine concern? People make it out like this is abuse, which it most definitely is not. If you think it is, don’t send your kid there. If you are sending your kids there, it’s not abuse…unless you think your abusive for sending them to an abusive school.
    2. I used to have sources…I could most definitely get them. Speaking as a girl, not yet married- I personal have struggled with hair. I don’t just cut my hair off for nothing. I truly beleive long hair is not tzniyudsik. Sure it’s a chumrah, but it has basis, not kihalacha per say but more like something that isn’t advised and brings negetivity, and pritzus to the world… (last I checked I’m pretty sure the Zohar said that…plus there are some other sources. Plus on another note, my hair is actually bright. It’s red. It’s curly. If it’s long you can see it from 3 blocks away (I’ve had people tell me that beofre)….definitely falls under “eye catching”. Hair also smells good after showering, and the longer it is the more scent it takes up…point is I’m saying it’s not bidavka the length, it’s what comes out as a direct link from the length.
    3. Sure it’s not comfortable, life isn’t always comfortable. But it’s a school rule. They aren’t always comfortable either. Like wearing nude tights in middle of the winter in Yerushalayim when it is snowing!!
    4. If you really cared, and it truly bothered you, and you truly did not agree with the school you’d move elsewhere for your kids’ chinuch’ sake….just saying. Or you would shut your mouth. You wouldn’t blow up on twitter and push your kids to be negetive toward their own school.
    5. What is venting going to do? Make you feel better? Why do it online? Why cause this uproar? If you have a problem, why publisize it for no reason? If you cared enough you would take action, call the school, etc….you obviously don’t care if you are making an uproar…to just vent. Do you feel better after venting on the internet in a anonymous comment senction maybe 600 people will actually read?

    6. If you don’t know the school…why do you care?
    7. Agreed. lol.

    1. It’s online…close enough.
    2. Aha….okay. I read it, maybe missed that part. I thought they were okay with long hair being OUT.
    3. Yes, I don’t agree with it either. At least not publicly….but yeah, I’m saying this isn’t a new concept. But the internet thinks it is.
    4. Um you know….to other schools. They exist.
    5. That’s true, but that was done by an askan from lakewood. Why did it have to be a public issue worldwide?
    6. Good
    7. Many many many frum schools have chumros, we weren’t allowed cellphones in high school (even kosher ones) or technically we had to call before going to babysit and ask if they had any secular books, media, movies, music, magazines, or newspapers…oh and unfiltered internet. If they said yes to any we weren’t allowed to babysit. Or if they let us use any electronics…
    If you don’t agree with chumros, don’t send your kids there. Chumros isn’t new. I have yet to see a BY without chumros in their rule book. What makes this chumrah different?

    1. See DY answer
    2. Ditto
    3. They have a rule, this doesn’t look so public. It looks like there’s a line, it’s not a ceremony or a football game where everyone is watching. They just need to check it…
    4. Ditto
    5. Ditto
    6. Ditto I guess
    7. Ditto…

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕

    Shopping, I’m not saying I agree with the thinking behind posting the video and complaining, I’m trying to help you understand the possibile mindset.

    Of course it’s not abusive. Throwing the word abuse around for a situation such as this belittles genuine abuse; it’s like the leberals do with the word racism.

    Shopping613 🌠

    DY. I agree with both points. Especialy the last one. I see POV of the other side.. I just think it’s wrong. It’s stupid and immature to bash things online like this. Wash just trying to show how stupid the idea of bashing them really is.

    Basically trolls.
    Under the guise of “this is why people go OTD”
    ACTUALLY that sounds a lot like Joseph and Rebyidd…

    I have coined a new term.
    Frum soldier trolls.

    I am a genious lol


    so we all agree that this won’t make the child go OTD
    BUT it is extremely embarassing to be send home in middle of seder (reply to earlier comment)
    and you know what, embarassing someone (publicly) is considered murdering them.


    “It’s stupid and immature to bash things online like this.”

    This is part is without question wrong, it was the viral sharing that led it to be stopped.
    and Speaking of real abuse it was likely the bloggers that led to the real problem of child abuse being somehwat acknowledged in the frum velt.

    “f you really cared, and it truly bothered you, and you truly did not agree with the school you’d move elsewhere for your kids’ chinuch’ sake….just saying. Or you would shut your mouth. You wouldn’t blow up on twitter and push your kids to be negetive toward their own school.”

    This line is silly too. first of all how do you know the people who posted/discussed the video told their kids how they felt. And The suggestion that people should move or accept (what some view) as degradation is beyond absurd.


    The Beis Yaakov did not stop measuring. It still remains their policy to continue measuring.


    I think a larger point needs to be made:
    Focusing on tznius and measuring is not what keeps are girls frum and erlich. You know what works? Giving them a love for Hashem and themselves! And explaing why they need to be tznius, explaining the hashkafa. Of course halacha needs to be taught, but the focus nowadays is only on the rules. When you ask about certain Lakewood schools, they tell you all the rules! Where’s the warmth, the love, the focus on ahava for themselves and Hashem?
    Without girls wanting to be frum, without them being taught why to be machmir, we now have an epidemic of girls coming out of High School and throwing away all the rules! Give a girl a hug, a smile, and teach a class about tznius. but the focus on all the rules is causing a lot of immodesty.

    Shopping613 🌠

    Chabadgal I agree. But the problem there wasn’t the rules. It was how they gave punishments. You could have threes rules and still make that mistake and you could have 76 rules and give consequenses is a not traumatizing your kid for life type of thing.. Two desperate issues completely.

    It was stopped… At a price. Thousands of people have seen the video, and people are making a mockery of this type of Judaism.

    I’m saying it’s stupid to have an outrage online. If you truly think your kid is being degraded go do something useful!!! Don’t you think your older kids didn’t see people bashing online if you grant them Internet access? You helped share the negetivity by bashing it.

    I disagree fs12.
    Rules are important. Hashkafah is important too. Why can’t we focus on both? Surely if a school is focusing on only rules that would be bad. But actually in the case of this Lakewood school I see a lot of people annoyed. Read the mailbag on the homepage of a mom who is extremely happy with their chinuch a a claims her daughter has a strong hashkafah and love.

    Of course that clip didn’t go viral. Why I assume they only focused on rules? From a 3p second viral clil? They learn 8 hours a day.


    You don’t get to decide what kind of troll I am.

    And even if you disagree that measuring hair is too invasive, you should be able to understand why people think so.

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