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Lately I have seen many frum women wearing maternity clothes that are totally (imho) not tznius. I understand the trend today is to wear tight fitting maternity tops. But that’s in the secular world. Why has it infiltrated into our world. Yes I know – many “outside” styles have become part of our world but that doesn’t mean it’s right?
Are these ladies buying these clothes because they can’t get any other kind? Is there any place left where a frum lady can get tznius stylish maternity clothes?
Given the topic of this thread, I’m not sure the mods will let it post. And if they do, some ppl might find it offensive. I apologize for that but it really bothers me to see this.
i hear ya. my question is, why are not pregnant women wearing maternity? A recent style is to wear these very loose sleeveless tops over a long sleeve shell and the front of these sleveless tops are gathered with a design of some sort or a seam across the top with teh rest of the shirt hanging loosely, similar to the maternity style…
But you have a point except that its not only a problem with maternity clothing…
Mods – I don’t think thread is appropiate for a mixed crowd.
I don’t understand, Why should YOU apologize? Some people might find it offensive??? Got news. Some people might find their apparel offensive. Highly. Soo disgu.. and not tznius.
I think its disgusting. I will stick to my 10yo “tent” maternity clothes, thank you very much. Even the frum stores don’t sell decent clothes, and the prices!! OUCH!!
There are fingers to point all around. At females who dress in a way they know they shouldn’t. At the husbands and fathers who allow their wives and daughters to dress a certain way, and the frum storekeepers who stock and sell clothing they know they should not. The same is true of males who dress in a way that they should not, but the thread seems to focus on specific females, so will leave the males for a separate thread.
Loshon Horah pure and simple.
aries,
Where did you see any loshon horah?
maybe the women are fat and not pregnant….Gefen why are you spending so much time looking….
One of my pet peeves- Why is spandex somehow permitted once pregnant? If you/your spouse doesnt wear clothing that is so clingy it appears to have been sprayed on all year round, then durning pregnancy should be no different.
Perhaps Gefen is an OB?
DY, it is loshon horah because you are picking on women who dress in a manner that they choose to dress instead of just role modeling and asking your own kids NOT to dress that way. Or asking your own wives NOT to dress that way. What is the point of speaking badly about these women? Why be so judgmental? It is NOT nice seriously. You won’t solve the problem here and you are just venting pure loshon horah here.
Here is another perspective. Men want to marry size 2 women. Yes only skinny, skinny women and then they get pregnant and they feel fat. The maternity clothes are huge and ugly, not stylish and not pretty at all. Here you have tiny women who now can no longer fit into their tiny clothes and now look like their fat counterparts who their husbands would never have dated in the first place. They don’t want to feel fat. They just want to look pregnant. How do they do that? They still want to be attractive to their husbands and they still want to dress as they dressed when they were a size 2. They are brainwashed from the time they were teenagers to be skinny, skinny, skinny. Who did this to them????? So no they don’t want to wear ugly maternity clothes. They want to wear clothes that make them feel thin and cute just like before. Maybe that is the problem.
So stop looking for reasons to judge others. It is pure loshon horah. And to the men, stop looking at women!
aries2756:
It is not loshon horah because no one was specified. It’s like saying “you’re not allowed to steal”, is speaking loshon hara about thieves! C’mon! She has a VALID point. Oh, and whoever feels uncomfortable about her pointing it out – DON’T LOOK HERE. (Just like you’re telling the men and others disgusted at the sight not to look)
No. There’s no mitzvah to ENCOURAGE wrongdoers.
a) it is NOT loshon horo
b) sometimes it is just uanvoidable when . . . ok I won’t go into detailed description here but it is GROSS and UNACCEPTABLE!!!
You chose a whole group of women to specify and yenta about. if there is a purpose in this it would not be. If this was about helping someone or starting a line of cute and youthful maternity clothes that didn’t look frumpy and baggy, but actually was meant for young 20 somethings and not 40 somethings so that they wouldn’t wear spandex and way too revealing clothes then that would be a whole different discussion. But this is a thread about how disgusting these young women are for doing what they are doing. So yes, that’s loshon horah.
Zeeskite, yasher koach!
aries,
DY, it is loshon horah because you are picking on women who dress in a manner that they choose to dress instead of just role modeling and asking your own kids NOT to dress that way. Or asking your own wives NOT to dress that way. What is the point of speaking badly about these women? Why be so judgmental? It is NOT nice seriously. You won’t solve the problem here and you are just venting pure loshon horah here.
So when you speak badly about Rebbes ->here, or people involved in the NASI project ->here, or Torah Umesorah, and for that matter, boys in general, ->here you think that you will solve the problem here, so for you it’s not loshon horah?
Here is another perspective…
From what I’m led to believe, the lack of tznius in these women doesn’t begin with maternity.
And to the men, stop looking at women!
Absolutely correct, but it’s not an excuse.
DY, I take offense to your prodding me into an argument.
The NASI project was an ad in the paper that was brought into this forum for discussion pros and cons. I participated in that discussion. It was NOT a venting of how disgusting a certain group of women were. As far as your other issues, please tell me when I started a thread to bash or speak L”H on your other subjects. YOU owe me an apology DY. I’m waiting.
As far as the remark “From what I’m led to believe, the lack of tznius in these women doesn’t begin with maternity.” pure Loshon Horah. Is this the way we are supposed to behave while our Tzaddikim and tinokim are dying? This is what we have taken upon ourselves?????? It doesn’t matter that we are all anonymous here, Hashem knows who we are!
Everyday I look at the misaskim list, everyday I look at the News right here on YWN and see more and more tragedies and instead of writing about things that show “mi k’amcha yisroel” this is what YOU choose to speak about. Shame on all of you.
“And to the men, stop looking at women!
Absolutely correct, but it’s not an excuse.”
Absolutely correct, and how hypocritical of her after just telling us to stop picking on others and focus on role modeling.
DY – Wow, you pulled a quick one.
I saw one of those females (I refuse to call them women) in a chassidish men’s clothing store, walking among the men without shame. UGH!
Gefen, I think you’re 100% right. AHM, I honestly don’t know what I would do if I got pregnant again (not likely at my age, but still…). And honestly, I have no idea what I will do when my daughters byz”H get pregnant. I don’t think there is ANYTHING available on either side of the ocean that is suitable for a pregnant woman who wants to be tznius to wear. Now if she still wants to be “cute and youthful” when she’s as big as a whale (sorry, don’t mean to be offensive, but I had a 10-lb plus baby so I know what it means to be BIG!!), then it’s time to rethink things.
Now, I agree with Aries, that we teach our daughters the wrong things if they think they always have to be skinny to be pretty. It’s so hard not to when that’s what everybody thinks is necessary to get married. (I have heard of some not so skinny girls getting married in Meah Shearim and those environs, but I’m no expert.) But still, I think we need to get some frum women to start designing some clothes like what I was able to buy a few years ago but have all but disappeared from the shelves and stores. I read somewhere once that the front of a pregnant woman should be covered with something “flowing” over. My daughter wants to learn sewing – she’s 15. I want to send her so she’ll know how to make tznius clothes even if she can’t find things in the stores. That may be our only answers.
Oh, just as a comment about the seeming flip-flop of non-pregnant women (even unmarried girls and young teenagers) wearing those maternity-looking tops that have the little pleats at the empire waist – my daughter wouldn’t be caught _____ in such clothes. It’s embarrassing for her when she sees unmarried girls in such clothes. And anyway, I don’t think they make those things big enough to cover a pregnant woman’s tummy in the 9th month.
i totally agree about that. it happens to be there is an expecting woman in my class and she wears loose tops and such and she looks great.
nechomah, your daughter sounds like s/o i would want to be friends with. when empire waist came out, i said NO NO. and i still do. why would a single girl want to look pregnant?
aries:
Let me try. Again. Pointing out a certain fallacy in the trends, IS NOT LOSHON HORA. (Syag would agree, right?)
And maybe this IS the right thing to amend in light of the recent tragedies. Am Yisroel has a bit more than so call “Mentchliche” middos. That’s only part. And we do it because it’s a mitzvah, not because it’s ‘gemutlich’.
The Chofetz Chaim (yeah, the one who invented the.. Chofetz Chaim, Shmiras Hadibur), wrote a strong letter regarding tznius issues. And HE pointed out that a breach in tznius brings calamities upon us. So, yes, if one wants to take recent tragedies to heart and begin on something, that’s certainly a step in the right direction.
When people realize, upon reading here, how unbecoming it is for a Jewess to be so attired, how much “es past nish”, they’re probably going to look for alternatives. So, yes, she’s doing a big service to Am Yisroel. (All the more so for being attacked for it!)
Let this alone be a merit for the Yeshiva World Coffee Room!
Why would a Torah Jew DEFEND this disgust???
Teaching young women how to sew is an excellent idea. It should be a required subject in every girl’s school especially when we realize how the economy has taken such a nose dive. It is important for young women and future mothers to know how to create their own clothing and that of their children or to know how to take an article of clothing and make the appropriate changes to make it useful and either tznius, age appropriate or wearable whatever the case may be. Why pay for designer clothes at ridiculous prices? Why wear what everyone else is wearing just to conform when you have the freedom to create what YOU like with your own twist, or buy something at a ridiculously low price and turn it into something fabulous? Why not take an amazing sweater and add a contrast fabric to turn it into a maternity top, or take a great skirt and add a panel to use it for maternity? When you know how to sew you can make magic. You can buy an inexpensive piece of fabric and turn it into the most adorable matching outfits for your kids without breaking the bank.
Do you know that you can buy a dress that is a bit short cut it by the thigh, add a contrasting fabric panel and add six inches to it, meanwhile you just made a striped dress that looks like it was the style to begin with. Many dressmakers come up with great ideas like adding a beaded sleeve and belt to make a jumper into a dress, or adding another layer under a dress to add length, or making a dress a little shorter and adding a layer under or adding appliques or flowers to cover up a rip, a tear or an untzniusdik opening if you don’t want to use a shell underneath. If you know how to sew you can do magic to any garment. Why should you spend and invest huge amounts of money for maternity clothes you don’t even like and are not flattering just because you don’t want to walk out in a garbage bag or you don’t want people to speak about you like those women that are being spoken about here? Every single high school girl, even middle school girl should learn how to sew. By the time a girl is 16 she should be able to sew her own clothes.
miritchka, gefen, Nechomah, yentingyenta – I don’t get what you find offensive about non-pregnant women wearing “pregnancy style” clothing. Gathered empire waists, etc. are not exclusive to maternity styles. If you automatically associate such cuts with maternity, fine. But they aren’t doing anything wrong.
Sometimes it just depends on what is available. It’s very hard to find good sneus clothes out of town for most ladies and the in-town cost is very high. Obviously tight is not ideal but it’s better than the inverse. Each person should pick their battles. When it becomes a klal issue the gedolim will speak up.
Aries is so right. It is most definitely lashon Hara to talk about this. Even though you are not necessarily saying specific names it is still Lashon Hara. For example, when you see a rainbow you are not supposed to point it out because it is like you are speaking Lashon Hara about Klall Yisroel.
Another thing, Unless you know the whole situation, you absolutely may not judge. Everybody has their struggles and tznius may be theirs. I’m not justifying what these women are doing but judging them is so not right.
Maybe tznius is not your struggle so you don’t know how it feels.
It’s like when we learn about how Bnai Yisroel used to be oved avodah zarah we say how can they have done that? it’s completely irrationa1. we cannot comprehend how they could have done things like that. If Bnai Yisroel from that generation would see us now they wouldn’t believe how we can do what we do now. But Hashem gives everybody their specific nisayon and unless you are in that persons shoes you cant judge them.
So Aries, +1
please tell me when I started a thread to bash or speak L”H on your other subjects. YOU owe me an apology DY. I’m waiting.
Please cite for me where in sefer Chofetz Chaim it says that L”H is only when starting a thread, not in continuing an existing discussion.
As for an apology, I wasn’t trying to insult you, I was trying to point out that you know yourself that, as ZK points out, it’s not L”H to discuss an issue when there’s nobody specific named (although the people at NASI are specific people so you probably owe them an apology).
If you mistakenly took personal insult, I apologize for the lack of clarity.
davkanik1 – …what’s the “inverse,” and how is it worse?
Saying that every girl must learn to sew is totally ridiculous ive never heard such a crazy thing in my life!
You may as well say that every boy MUST learn plumbing and joinery and electricianry because thats whats always needed in a house! I mean COME ON!!!! Sewing isnt so easy you know! (i know from personal experience i learnt sewing in school and high school and sem and i STILL cant sew!!)so thank goodness for dressmakers!
Plus sewing is boring and takes ages and there are much more exciting and interesting things to do with ones life.
As a matter of practicality, sewing might be a better subject to teach girls than “an in depth look at how 17 classicalmeforshei tanach analyze sefer iyov” and then ask the girls to write a 42 page essay summarizing the 17 opinions and to contrast it with how these same miforshim understand the 1st perek in sefer chabakuk.
This thread is fascinating.
ZeesKite and aries, you are both writers par excellence, why are you wasting your talents in the coffee room? You should be out there writing books.
As for the topic at hand, I agree that the problem of tight-fitting clothes doesn’t start with maternity clothing. It’s a general tsnius problem of young girls/women who feel the need to emphasize their curves – pregnant or not.
Is it the guy who insists on marrying a size 2 or is it the MOTHER IN LAW who wants it??
My wife got tznius maternity clothes at motherhood
however your comment needs addressing
I think it’s because there is a certain lack of tznius even when they aren’t pregnant
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