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  • #603019
    yoyo56
    Member

    Would u hold back from a shidduch if the only problem is that the guy smokes and he promises to stop

    #870514
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I would certainly not believe he was going to stop. So the real question is if you are willing to marry a smoker.

    I would not marry a smoker.

    #870515
    Csar
    Member

    Marry him.

    #870516
    LBK
    Participant

    yes

    #870517
    yitayningwut
    Participant

    I would marry a smoker, as long as she has it under control.

    #870518
    Health
    Participant

    Csar & LBK –

    Quit now before it’s too late!

    Read the posts on the Issur to smoke topic!

    #870519
    Sam2
    Participant

    Yoyo: I wouldn’t marry a smoker. Why can’t he stop (or at least start stopping) first? Second-hand smoke kills. Why would you put your life in danger by marrying him?

    #870520
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    Don’t believe it until you see it.

    #870521
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    You say this is the “only issue”. I think anybody in the shidduch parsha who smokes has a much bigger issue. Why did he start in the first place? It has been known for years that smoking is addictive and dangerous. The fact that he started in the first place should raise red flags about him.

    Peer pressure? That’s not an answer, just another red flag. It means he might fall to peer pressure about other issues later on.

    #870522
    Nechomah
    Participant

    Maybe he would agree to marry a girl who is currently overweight if she promises she is going to lose weight?

    #870523
    computer777
    Member

    Yoyo: my answer is no.

    #870524
    menucha12
    Member

    it really depends on the guy if he is really sincere and it also depends on the reasons he started smoking

    #870525
    LBK
    Participant

    Health – the question was “would you hold back” and I answered yes. Why does that imply that i smoke?

    #870526
    TIGER69
    Member

    ATTN: YW Moderator-42

    I was going to write how your answer is unintelligent, to say the least, though I dont know where to even start!

    I am also assuming that this CR column is your “only issue”, which according to you means that your are suffering from autism.

    P.s. you have won the award for the most stupid answer CR answer in history.

    Sincerely,

    Your teacher that asked you to listen in class!

    #870527
    yoyo56
    Member

    he said that once he starts dating he will stop.. in other words he hasnt started dating and doesnt want to smoke near family and stuff.

    everyone succumbs to peer pressure but on diff levels and that is def not the only reason why he smokes

    #870528
    yoyo56
    Member

    the problem is allot of guys smoke these days.. especially those in yeshiva

    #870529
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Yes. A lot of guys do smoke, so you need to decide whether you are willing to marry a smoker. But I don’t think you can assume there is any difference between a guy who promises to stop, and a guy who promises not to stop. They will both not stop until they die of lung cancer.

    #870530
    TIGER69
    Member

    Obviously nobody has the intention to hold onto it forever!

    On the other hand when you date a guy and he smokes, you have to take into account:

    1: you started dating him, and you knew he smokes.

    5: never judge the flaw of another! To quit smoking might be harder than you all can imagine.

    #870531
    gefen
    Participant

    I actually agree with Popa on this one!!! Wow.

    #870532
    yoyo56
    Member

    im not dating yet but there are guys who ive heard alllot abt they are great guys but they smoke…and say they have stopped many times have allot of self control and will stop!

    i am very aganist smoking but should i go for a guys whos a little less but doesnt smoke?!?!

    #870533
    Health
    Participant

    LBK -“Health – the question was “would you hold back” and I answered yes. Why does that imply that i smoke?”

    Sorry -I thought the yes was going back on Csar’s post.

    #870534
    Health
    Participant

    yoyo56 -“im not dating yet but there are guys who ive heard alllot abt they are great guys but they smoke…and say they have stopped many times have allot of self control and will stop!

    i am very aganist smoking but should i go for a guys whos a little less but doesnt smoke?!?!”

    This is what I don’t understand or actually I do because of Kol Hodom Kozave.

    The guy(s) who’s with it & smokes to be part of the crowd are great guys, but the guy who doesn’t is “a little less”.

    Olam Hasheker!

    #870535
    yoyo56
    Member

    i didnt mean it in that way this guy is an amazing person but he smokes thats his flaw others guys have other flaws and dont smoke chap?

    also many guys who are in yeshiva smoke…should i go for a guy whos not in yeshiva which means hes home isnt goin to be a totaly torah based home? or maybe it is if im lucky to find a guy who is out of yeshiva and wants a torah home?

    i guess this is all abt giving up sumthing for another!

    would u make the sacrifice if u were inmy case?

    #870536
    dhl144
    Member

    if smoking is the only issue defenetly go 4 it not the bigggest deal

    #870537
    Health
    Participant

    yoyo56 -“i didnt mean it in that way this guy is an amazing person but he smokes thats his flaw others guys have other flaws and dont smoke chap?”

    Oh, I chap, but you don’t.

    “also many guys who are in yeshiva smoke…should i go for a guy whos not in yeshiva which means hes home isnt goin to be a totaly torah based home? or maybe it is if im lucky to find a guy who is out of yeshiva and wants a torah home?”

    FYI -There are many Good guys in Yeshiva who don’t smoke.

    “i guess this is all abt giving up sumthing for another!

    would u make the sacrifice if u were inmy case?”

    The scarifice is only in your mind. My curiosity is – who is feeding you this info? Who told you that it’s only the Cool With- It smoking guys that are Bnei Torah?

    This is what I was talking about with Olam Hasheker. There is no such thing as a Non-smoking Ben Torah?!?! In my mind, an addicted smoker, no matter how well a learner he is, can’t be a Ben Torah.

    A “Smoking Ben Torah” is an oxymoron!

    #870538
    yoyo56
    Member

    no one told me that the cool with it smoking guys are bnei torah!!

    why cant a smoker be a ben torah??

    #870539
    writersoul
    Member

    Someone brought up smoking and being overweight. The difference is that smoking will harm you and your future kids as well. Second hand smoke can kill– forget about first hand smoke.

    #870540
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    Being overweight can harm you too. For many overweight people it is just as hard to become healthy as it is for a smoker to stop, in other words – they just can’t do it.

    If I were a girl, I would rather marry a guy who works and doesn’t smoke then a yeshiva guy who smokes. Yes, there are always exceptions but most guys who smoke are not the “good bochurim” who you want to marry.

    I have major taynas against anybody who started smoking in the last 20 years. I think it is a major tayna against them, either their upbringing, self-control, intelligence, etc or a combination of those factors.

    And I love how yoyo said she knows someone who stopped many times! ROTFL!

    I think boys should be required to stop smoking for a full year before being allowed to date. And for every time they cheat an extra month should be added to that freezer so if a guy cheats and smokes during that year he now has to wait 13 months…

    #870541
    writersoul
    Member

    Mod: By “you” I meant the girl who would go out with a guy who smokes. Maskim(ah) with EVERYTHING you said. If it were between a boy who works and a boy who smokes for me, there wouldn’t even be the first semblance of a contest.

    #870542
    Think first
    Member

    Yoyo- seems like u need to figure out what ur looking for because ur coming up with situations that aren’t real. When you find a guy you really like you may just overlook smoking and not even ask us here.

    #870543
    Nechomah
    Participant

    Thanks 42 for the backup. I brought up being overweight as a parallel because there are similarities. Overeating and smoking are both habits that have a psychological as well as a physical aspect to them. Obviously a person cannot stop eating completely in order to lose weight, but they have to learn self control and stop overeating. They need to develop good habits like portion control and exercise to undo the damage that has been done.

    A smoker, on the other hand, has to completely stop smoking (in my opinion IMMEDIATELY) and control himself not to take another smoke. I also agree that anyone who starts smoking has a major tayna, but I do wonder if that’s at all different here in EY. My daughter’s close friend has a brother who started to smoke. How could his parents let him? My daughter feels it’s an influence from the yeshiva, where most of the rebbeim smoke, but still, there is so much bad stuff known about smoking, how can they let their talmidim start up as well. Maybe they don’t believe the medical info? On Purim I was pretty shocked when I heard that a father promised his kids cigarettes as a prize for doing a mitzvah. Totally backwards to me.

    #870544
    HaKatan
    Participant

    “On Purim I was pretty shocked when I heard that a father promised his kids cigarettes as a prize for doing a mitzvah. Totally backwards to me. “

    It is assur, and backwards, and the father is, with all due respect, a total moron. To intentionally and as a reward give these carcinogens to his children? In his defense, certain sects/societies of our holy nation are, unfortunately, still backwards in this way and still consider smoking to be normal, and both young and old do smoke, R”L!

    Back to the issue: absolutely do not marry him if he is a smoker or has been for any amount of time! If someone can swear that he’s been clean for, say, 6 months or a year, then MAYBE it’s worthy of consideration.

    Smoking is a medical addiction and you will not be able to get him to stop. With tremendous Siyata Dishmaya, HE can stop, if he works at it. But quitting for a week doesn’t mean he’s won’t relapse.

    Ask a doctor how long it takes to be very sure he will not relapse, and take it from there to a trustworthy Rav.

    Remember that responsibilities usually increase as one gets older, and stress is only one thing that drives smokers back to this disgusting and devastating habit (which should never have started), Hashem Yishmor. Better to remain single and have one’s health than ch”V endanger one’s self in any way for any reason.

    #870545
    Sam2
    Participant

    Mod 42: I wouldn’t go as far as you. Teenagers do stupid things sometimes. Maybe he was just stupid to start and now he’s hooked. I don’t think it shows other major flaws in the person, but definitely is a strong reason in and of itself not to date someone.

    And what about people who don’t overeat but are overweight anyway?

    #870546
    takahmamash
    Participant

    why cant a smoker be a ben torah??

    Because he’s knowingly violating an issur d’oreita.

    Because he’s putting himself at risk for heart disease.

    Because he’s putting himself at risk for hypertension.

    Because he’s putting himself at risk for emphysema.

    Because he’s putting his family at risk for all these diseases from second hand smoke.

    Because he’s putting himself at risk for an early death, making his wife an early widow, and his children early orphans.

    I hope this answers your question.

    #870547
    Health
    Participant

    yoyo56 -“why cant a smoker be a ben torah??”

    Because we just had a topic on smoking – clearly most Gedolim say it’s Ossur to smoke. Even if a Bochur deludes himself and says -“It’s not that dangerous”, he can’t possibly be a Ben Torah because he doesn’t listen to most Gedolim.

    #870548
    mommamia22
    Participant

    Yoyo

    I think you need to differentiate between promises and action.

    A promise is like a thought with intention; action is acting on that thought. Many of us have well meaning intentions that are never realized because of inaction. IMHO, action signifies the intention of bringing that thought to fruition.

    So, personally, I think a promise is fairly meaningless in the absence of action.

    Stopping smoking is easier said than done. I wouldn’t take a promise so seriously unless there was action coupled with it (and even then…).

    #870549
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    To bring in another side: I know a nice, good ben-Torah who has been trying to stop smoking for many years now. When he started dating, he stopped; when he got married, he stopped; when he had his first child, he stopped… As you can see, he knows the dangers yet can’t help himself. How/why he started in the first place I don’t know, but he is now a big talmid chacham and ben-Torah, although he still sometimes smokes. His wife was very against the smoking thing when they got married and still is, yet they got married.

    #870550
    Imaofthree
    Participant

    I hate the smell of cigarettes and so does my husband B”H.

    #870551
    haifagirl
    Participant

    P.s. you have won the award for the most stupid answer CR answer in history.

    Sincerely,

    Your teacher that asked you to listen in class!

    I don’t think there was anything wrong with his answer.

    And I pray you weren’t his English teacher.

    #870552
    bpt
    Participant

    Would he marry a girl that smoked, and promised to quit?

    Regardless of his answer, turn him down. He is a ticking time bomb

    #870553
    Parshaman
    Member

    I think it is ridiculous to say someone who smokes Can not be A Ben Torah. That means if the guy listens to everything his Rebbeim tell him and he learns Shtark and he does Chessed and he is a Huge Ba’al Middos but his issue is that it is hard for him to stop smoking, he’s not a Ben Torah. Everyone has different Ta’avos, do not judge another person until you have been in his shoes. I think it is very possible and even likely that there are B’nei Torah who smoke.

    #870554
    MDG
    Participant

    It also depends on sensitive you are to smoke and the smell that lingers.

    I had a morning charvuta that would smoke in the evening. The next morning, when we would learn, I found it repelling to speak with him.

    #870555
    far east
    Member

    yoyo- theres only one question here. Do YOU mind living with someone who smokes. Forget everyone else’s opinion on smokers it is completely irrelevant here. It’s your life and this is an important decision you have to make. You have to decide how much of an issue you believe smoking is and then decide if you can spend your life with someone who smokes.

    I wish you much hatzlacha and whatever decision you make should be the best for you!

    #870556
    Health
    Participant

    Parshaman – “I think it is ridiculous to say someone who smokes Can not be A Ben Torah.”

    With this logic you can say: -I think it is ridiculous to say someone who is an Alcoholic Can not be A Ben Torah.

    -I think it is ridiculous to say someone who watches TV & Movies Can not be A Ben Torah.

    -I think it is ridiculous to say someone who goes mixed swimming Can not be A Ben Torah.

    I could go on & on. If you are doing Issurim all the time over & over – No you are Not a Ben Torah!

    #870557
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    “If the guy listens to everything his Rebbeim tell him…”

    This would mean his Rebbeim don’t tell him not to smoke. In which case you have a kasha on his Rebbeim…

    #870558
    TIGER69
    Member

    Attn Haifagirl:

    Subject: YW Moderator-42

    Reason for such:

    #870559
    Parshaman
    Member

    Smoking is very addictive. I do not smoke but my Chavrusa does and he is trying to quit but it is not easy. He smokes much less than he used to though, and I would call him a Ben Torah. and Health- Smoking is not comparable to any of those cases, you clearly are very against smoking and I too am not a fan but it doesn’t mean that someone who does it is not a Ben Torah, especially those who are trying to quit. Like I said everyone has different Ta’avos and especially for those who have never been smokers how can we expect to understand how hard it must be to quit after they have started, even if they really want to quit.

    Obviously I am not saying everyone who smokes is doing the right thing but I am still saying that just because someone smokes doesnt mean he can;t be a Ben Torah. You have to look at the whole person not just ONE aspect!

    #870560
    haifagirl
    Participant

    And there’s the reason you don’t teach people with autism. It isn’t a disease. Your ignorance is showing. I hope you’re not anybody’s teacher.

    #870561
    YW Moderator-42
    Moderator

    This randomly reminded me that brooklyn19 once claimed to be my Morah or something. Wow! What was ages ago :}

    #870562
    dhl144
    Member

    yw moderator your on a roll!!!! lol!!!

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