April 22, 2012 3:54 am at 3:54 am #603019
Would u hold back from a shidduch if the only problem is that the guy smokes and he promises to stopApril 22, 2012 3:58 am at 3:58 am #870514popa_bar_abbaParticipant
I would certainly not believe he was going to stop. So the real question is if you are willing to marry a smoker.
I would not marry a smoker.April 22, 2012 3:59 am at 3:59 am #870515CsarMember
Marry him.April 22, 2012 4:03 am at 4:03 am #870516LBKParticipant
yesApril 22, 2012 4:07 am at 4:07 am #870517yitayningwutParticipant
I would marry a smoker, as long as she has it under control.April 22, 2012 4:08 am at 4:08 am #870518
Csar & LBK –
Quit now before it’s too late!
Read the posts on the Issur to smoke topic!April 22, 2012 4:10 am at 4:10 am #870519Sam2Participant
Yoyo: I wouldn’t marry a smoker. Why can’t he stop (or at least start stopping) first? Second-hand smoke kills. Why would you put your life in danger by marrying him?April 22, 2012 6:10 am at 6:10 am #870520
Don’t believe it until you see it.April 22, 2012 6:14 am at 6:14 am #870521
You say this is the “only issue”. I think anybody in the shidduch parsha who smokes has a much bigger issue. Why did he start in the first place? It has been known for years that smoking is addictive and dangerous. The fact that he started in the first place should raise red flags about him.
Peer pressure? That’s not an answer, just another red flag. It means he might fall to peer pressure about other issues later on.April 22, 2012 8:24 am at 8:24 am #870522NechomahParticipant
Maybe he would agree to marry a girl who is currently overweight if she promises she is going to lose weight?April 22, 2012 8:50 am at 8:50 am #870523computer777Member
Yoyo: my answer is no.April 22, 2012 12:36 pm at 12:36 pm #870524menucha12Member
it really depends on the guy if he is really sincere and it also depends on the reasons he started smokingApril 22, 2012 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm #870525LBKParticipant
Health – the question was “would you hold back” and I answered yes. Why does that imply that i smoke?April 22, 2012 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #870526
ATTN: YW Moderator-42
I was going to write how your answer is unintelligent, to say the least, though I dont know where to even start!
I am also assuming that this CR column is your “only issue”, which according to you means that your are suffering from autism.
P.s. you have won the award for the most stupid answer CR answer in history.
Your teacher that asked you to listen in class!April 22, 2012 2:01 pm at 2:01 pm #870527
he said that once he starts dating he will stop.. in other words he hasnt started dating and doesnt want to smoke near family and stuff.
everyone succumbs to peer pressure but on diff levels and that is def not the only reason why he smokesApril 22, 2012 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #870528
the problem is allot of guys smoke these days.. especially those in yeshivaApril 22, 2012 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #870529popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Yes. A lot of guys do smoke, so you need to decide whether you are willing to marry a smoker. But I don’t think you can assume there is any difference between a guy who promises to stop, and a guy who promises not to stop. They will both not stop until they die of lung cancer.April 22, 2012 2:35 pm at 2:35 pm #870530
Obviously nobody has the intention to hold onto it forever!
On the other hand when you date a guy and he smokes, you have to take into account:
1: you started dating him, and you knew he smokes.
5: never judge the flaw of another! To quit smoking might be harder than you all can imagine.April 22, 2012 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #870531gefenParticipant
I actually agree with Popa on this one!!! Wow.April 22, 2012 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #870532
im not dating yet but there are guys who ive heard alllot abt they are great guys but they smoke…and say they have stopped many times have allot of self control and will stop!
i am very aganist smoking but should i go for a guys whos a little less but doesnt smoke?!?!April 22, 2012 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #870533
LBK -“Health – the question was “would you hold back” and I answered yes. Why does that imply that i smoke?”
Sorry -I thought the yes was going back on Csar’s post.April 22, 2012 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #870534
yoyo56 -“im not dating yet but there are guys who ive heard alllot abt they are great guys but they smoke…and say they have stopped many times have allot of self control and will stop!
i am very aganist smoking but should i go for a guys whos a little less but doesnt smoke?!?!”
This is what I don’t understand or actually I do because of Kol Hodom Kozave.
The guy(s) who’s with it & smokes to be part of the crowd are great guys, but the guy who doesn’t is “a little less”.
Olam Hasheker!April 22, 2012 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #870535
i didnt mean it in that way this guy is an amazing person but he smokes thats his flaw others guys have other flaws and dont smoke chap?
also many guys who are in yeshiva smoke…should i go for a guy whos not in yeshiva which means hes home isnt goin to be a totaly torah based home? or maybe it is if im lucky to find a guy who is out of yeshiva and wants a torah home?
i guess this is all abt giving up sumthing for another!
would u make the sacrifice if u were inmy case?April 22, 2012 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #870536dhl144Member
if smoking is the only issue defenetly go 4 it not the bigggest dealApril 22, 2012 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #870537
yoyo56 -“i didnt mean it in that way this guy is an amazing person but he smokes thats his flaw others guys have other flaws and dont smoke chap?”
Oh, I chap, but you don’t.
“also many guys who are in yeshiva smoke…should i go for a guy whos not in yeshiva which means hes home isnt goin to be a totaly torah based home? or maybe it is if im lucky to find a guy who is out of yeshiva and wants a torah home?”
FYI -There are many Good guys in Yeshiva who don’t smoke.
“i guess this is all abt giving up sumthing for another!
would u make the sacrifice if u were inmy case?”
The scarifice is only in your mind. My curiosity is – who is feeding you this info? Who told you that it’s only the Cool With- It smoking guys that are Bnei Torah?
This is what I was talking about with Olam Hasheker. There is no such thing as a Non-smoking Ben Torah?!?! In my mind, an addicted smoker, no matter how well a learner he is, can’t be a Ben Torah.
A “Smoking Ben Torah” is an oxymoron!April 22, 2012 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #870538
no one told me that the cool with it smoking guys are bnei torah!!
why cant a smoker be a ben torah??April 22, 2012 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #870539writersoulParticipant
Someone brought up smoking and being overweight. The difference is that smoking will harm you and your future kids as well. Second hand smoke can kill– forget about first hand smoke.April 22, 2012 11:54 pm at 11:54 pm #870540
Being overweight can harm you too. For many overweight people it is just as hard to become healthy as it is for a smoker to stop, in other words – they just can’t do it.
If I were a girl, I would rather marry a guy who works and doesn’t smoke then a yeshiva guy who smokes. Yes, there are always exceptions but most guys who smoke are not the “good bochurim” who you want to marry.
I have major taynas against anybody who started smoking in the last 20 years. I think it is a major tayna against them, either their upbringing, self-control, intelligence, etc or a combination of those factors.
And I love how yoyo said she knows someone who stopped many times! ROTFL!
I think boys should be required to stop smoking for a full year before being allowed to date. And for every time they cheat an extra month should be added to that freezer so if a guy cheats and smokes during that year he now has to wait 13 months…April 23, 2012 12:08 am at 12:08 am #870541writersoulParticipant
Mod: By “you” I meant the girl who would go out with a guy who smokes. Maskim(ah) with EVERYTHING you said. If it were between a boy who works and a boy who smokes for me, there wouldn’t even be the first semblance of a contest.April 23, 2012 1:43 am at 1:43 am #870542Think firstMember
Yoyo- seems like u need to figure out what ur looking for because ur coming up with situations that aren’t real. When you find a guy you really like you may just overlook smoking and not even ask us here.April 23, 2012 4:59 am at 4:59 am #870543NechomahParticipant
Thanks 42 for the backup. I brought up being overweight as a parallel because there are similarities. Overeating and smoking are both habits that have a psychological as well as a physical aspect to them. Obviously a person cannot stop eating completely in order to lose weight, but they have to learn self control and stop overeating. They need to develop good habits like portion control and exercise to undo the damage that has been done.
A smoker, on the other hand, has to completely stop smoking (in my opinion IMMEDIATELY) and control himself not to take another smoke. I also agree that anyone who starts smoking has a major tayna, but I do wonder if that’s at all different here in EY. My daughter’s close friend has a brother who started to smoke. How could his parents let him? My daughter feels it’s an influence from the yeshiva, where most of the rebbeim smoke, but still, there is so much bad stuff known about smoking, how can they let their talmidim start up as well. Maybe they don’t believe the medical info? On Purim I was pretty shocked when I heard that a father promised his kids cigarettes as a prize for doing a mitzvah. Totally backwards to me.April 23, 2012 6:09 am at 6:09 am #870544HaKatanParticipant
“On Purim I was pretty shocked when I heard that a father promised his kids cigarettes as a prize for doing a mitzvah. Totally backwards to me. “
It is assur, and backwards, and the father is, with all due respect, a total moron. To intentionally and as a reward give these carcinogens to his children? In his defense, certain sects/societies of our holy nation are, unfortunately, still backwards in this way and still consider smoking to be normal, and both young and old do smoke, R”L!
Back to the issue: absolutely do not marry him if he is a smoker or has been for any amount of time! If someone can swear that he’s been clean for, say, 6 months or a year, then MAYBE it’s worthy of consideration.
Smoking is a medical addiction and you will not be able to get him to stop. With tremendous Siyata Dishmaya, HE can stop, if he works at it. But quitting for a week doesn’t mean he’s won’t relapse.
Ask a doctor how long it takes to be very sure he will not relapse, and take it from there to a trustworthy Rav.
Remember that responsibilities usually increase as one gets older, and stress is only one thing that drives smokers back to this disgusting and devastating habit (which should never have started), Hashem Yishmor. Better to remain single and have one’s health than ch”V endanger one’s self in any way for any reason.April 23, 2012 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #870545Sam2Participant
Mod 42: I wouldn’t go as far as you. Teenagers do stupid things sometimes. Maybe he was just stupid to start and now he’s hooked. I don’t think it shows other major flaws in the person, but definitely is a strong reason in and of itself not to date someone.
And what about people who don’t overeat but are overweight anyway?April 23, 2012 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #870546takahmamashParticipant
why cant a smoker be a ben torah??
Because he’s knowingly violating an issur d’oreita.
Because he’s putting himself at risk for heart disease.
Because he’s putting himself at risk for hypertension.
Because he’s putting himself at risk for emphysema.
Because he’s putting his family at risk for all these diseases from second hand smoke.
Because he’s putting himself at risk for an early death, making his wife an early widow, and his children early orphans.
I hope this answers your question.April 23, 2012 2:43 pm at 2:43 pm #870547
yoyo56 -“why cant a smoker be a ben torah??”
Because we just had a topic on smoking – clearly most Gedolim say it’s Ossur to smoke. Even if a Bochur deludes himself and says -“It’s not that dangerous”, he can’t possibly be a Ben Torah because he doesn’t listen to most Gedolim.April 23, 2012 7:56 pm at 7:56 pm #870548mommamia22Participant
I think you need to differentiate between promises and action.
A promise is like a thought with intention; action is acting on that thought. Many of us have well meaning intentions that are never realized because of inaction. IMHO, action signifies the intention of bringing that thought to fruition.
So, personally, I think a promise is fairly meaningless in the absence of action.
Stopping smoking is easier said than done. I wouldn’t take a promise so seriously unless there was action coupled with it (and even then…).April 23, 2012 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #870549
To bring in another side: I know a nice, good ben-Torah who has been trying to stop smoking for many years now. When he started dating, he stopped; when he got married, he stopped; when he had his first child, he stopped… As you can see, he knows the dangers yet can’t help himself. How/why he started in the first place I don’t know, but he is now a big talmid chacham and ben-Torah, although he still sometimes smokes. His wife was very against the smoking thing when they got married and still is, yet they got married.April 23, 2012 8:51 pm at 8:51 pm #870550ImaofthreeParticipant
I hate the smell of cigarettes and so does my husband B”H.April 23, 2012 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #870551haifagirlParticipant
P.s. you have won the award for the most stupid answer CR answer in history.
Your teacher that asked you to listen in class!
I don’t think there was anything wrong with his answer.
And I pray you weren’t his English teacher.April 23, 2012 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #870552bptParticipant
Would he marry a girl that smoked, and promised to quit?
Regardless of his answer, turn him down. He is a ticking time bombApril 23, 2012 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #870553ParshamanMember
I think it is ridiculous to say someone who smokes Can not be A Ben Torah. That means if the guy listens to everything his Rebbeim tell him and he learns Shtark and he does Chessed and he is a Huge Ba’al Middos but his issue is that it is hard for him to stop smoking, he’s not a Ben Torah. Everyone has different Ta’avos, do not judge another person until you have been in his shoes. I think it is very possible and even likely that there are B’nei Torah who smoke.April 23, 2012 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #870554MDGParticipant
It also depends on sensitive you are to smoke and the smell that lingers.
I had a morning charvuta that would smoke in the evening. The next morning, when we would learn, I found it repelling to speak with him.April 23, 2012 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #870555far eastMember
yoyo- theres only one question here. Do YOU mind living with someone who smokes. Forget everyone else’s opinion on smokers it is completely irrelevant here. It’s your life and this is an important decision you have to make. You have to decide how much of an issue you believe smoking is and then decide if you can spend your life with someone who smokes.
I wish you much hatzlacha and whatever decision you make should be the best for you!April 23, 2012 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #870556
Parshaman – “I think it is ridiculous to say someone who smokes Can not be A Ben Torah.”
With this logic you can say: -I think it is ridiculous to say someone who is an Alcoholic Can not be A Ben Torah.
-I think it is ridiculous to say someone who watches TV & Movies Can not be A Ben Torah.
-I think it is ridiculous to say someone who goes mixed swimming Can not be A Ben Torah.
I could go on & on. If you are doing Issurim all the time over & over – No you are Not a Ben Torah!April 23, 2012 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #870557
“If the guy listens to everything his Rebbeim tell him…”
This would mean his Rebbeim don’t tell him not to smoke. In which case you have a kasha on his Rebbeim…April 24, 2012 12:18 am at 12:18 am #870558
Subject: YW Moderator-42
Reason for such:April 24, 2012 3:54 am at 3:54 am #870559ParshamanMember
Smoking is very addictive. I do not smoke but my Chavrusa does and he is trying to quit but it is not easy. He smokes much less than he used to though, and I would call him a Ben Torah. and Health- Smoking is not comparable to any of those cases, you clearly are very against smoking and I too am not a fan but it doesn’t mean that someone who does it is not a Ben Torah, especially those who are trying to quit. Like I said everyone has different Ta’avos and especially for those who have never been smokers how can we expect to understand how hard it must be to quit after they have started, even if they really want to quit.
Obviously I am not saying everyone who smokes is doing the right thing but I am still saying that just because someone smokes doesnt mean he can;t be a Ben Torah. You have to look at the whole person not just ONE aspect!April 24, 2012 4:10 am at 4:10 am #870560haifagirlParticipant
And there’s the reason you don’t teach people with autism. It isn’t a disease. Your ignorance is showing. I hope you’re not anybody’s teacher.April 24, 2012 5:09 am at 5:09 am #870561
This randomly reminded me that brooklyn19 once claimed to be my Morah or something. Wow! What was ages ago :}April 24, 2012 5:10 am at 5:10 am #870562dhl144Member
yw moderator your on a roll!!!! lol!!!
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