January 20, 2011 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #1152822YW Moderator-80Member
no i think youre right
i believe i was mistaken
but ill leave my post up
maybe someone has better knowledge of the issueJanuary 20, 2011 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #1152823ddParticipant
Rav Jachter has an article summarizing the halchic issues of pet ownership. (Google Jachter pets – it’s easy to find). It’s a very good practical starting point to see what the issues are and the different opinions.
Don’t forget that a dog is a huge responsibility – it’s fantastic having a dog in the house, but don’t underestimate the work and responsibility.January 20, 2011 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #1152824mikehall12382Member
“There was a non-Jewish vet where we used to live who would “buy” the dog before the surgery, then “sell” it back afterwards”
We do it with chumetz, why not Rover too 🙂January 20, 2011 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #1152825anon for thisParticipant
I believe most animal shelters spay/ neuter cats and dogs, so someone who obtains a shelter pet can avoid that issue.January 20, 2011 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #1152826charliehallParticipant
There are opinions recorded (even in the gemara) that it is asur even for a non-Jew to sterilize an animal. As I reported earlier, I was given a psak that even I as a Jew could have my animal sterilized, but there are clearly a wide variety of opinions on this.January 20, 2011 3:38 pm at 3:38 pm #1152827emanParticipant
Regarding Basar V’chalav with basar neveiloh you cannot guarantee that all the pet food comes from neveilo. The kosher slaughterhouses send their treifos (including sofek traifoh) and the hind of the animal to the Aino Yehudim for processing.January 20, 2011 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #1152828WolfishMusingsParticipant
Regarding Basar V’chalav with basar neveiloh you cannot guarantee that all the pet food comes from neveilo.
My understanding of basar v’cholov is that it is dependent on the species of animal, not whether the individual animal is kosher. In other words, a cow (or any other kosher mammal) can be subject to basar v’chalav regardless of whether it was properly slaughtered or not.
Or am I mistaken in this?
The Wolf (who, like all canines, is clearly NOT subject to basar v’chalav).January 20, 2011 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #1152829popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Wolf is correct.January 20, 2011 5:18 pm at 5:18 pm #1152830Sam2Participant
Mamash, the “selling” wouldn’t work. That would still be Lifnei Iver. I can’t sell my pet to a non-Jew for real if I know that he will spay/neuter it.
Charlie, how in the world did you get that P’sak? It doesn’t make sense. If you did it yourself it’s a clear Lav and as far as I know the vast majority (if not all) the Poskim hold that Sirus is Assur for a Goy also.
Wolf, as I said earlier it’s a Machlokes Acharonim between the Dagul Mervavah and the Chasam Sofer as to whether Basar Neveilah Bechalav is Assur Behana’ah or not (no one mentions Treifah but I assume that it would be the same Machlokes).January 20, 2011 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #1152831charliehallParticipant
“Charlie, how in the world did you get that P’sak? It doesn’t make sense.”
I asked my rabbi; he wasn’t sure so he checked with HIS poskim. I was frankly stunned by the responsum (as was another rabbi when I mentioned it). The logic was that animals exist to serve humans and if their going into heat was a big problem for the humans (and if you have ever seen a female cat in heat you will know what that means) then it is permissible to have it sterilized.
” If you did it yourself it’s a clear Lav “
I would never do that on something like that. I had expected to be told to sell the cat to a non-Jew for the purpose of the operation, and then to buy it back.
“and as far as I know the vast majority (if not all) the Poskim hold that Sirus is Assur for a Goy also.”
I don’t think you are correct on that; we talk a lot about the seven Noachide laws and this would be an eighth Noachide law. It certainly does not appear to be the majority opinion in the gemara. And the reason given in the gemara is pru urvu, which is not one of the seven Noachide commandments (even though it was given to Adam Rishon).January 20, 2011 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #1152832Sam2Participant
There are several more than “Seven Noahide Laws”. It’s a misconception and a nice phrase. There are seven main ones that go together. However, there are still other things that are forbidden for non-Jews to do. And that S’vara doesn’t make sense at all.January 21, 2011 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1152833YW Moderator-80Member
Drs. Bruno Chomel, a professor at the University of California, Davis, School of Veterinary Medicine, and Ben Sun, chief veterinarian for California’s Department of Health, say in a study to be published in next month’s issue of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) Emerging Infectious Diseases.
The authors, both experts in zoonoses, which are diseases or infections transmitted from animals to humans, reported that “the risk for transmission of zoonotic agents by close contact between pets and their owners through bed sharing, kissing or licking is real and has even been documented for life-threatening infections such as plague, internal parasites” and other serious diseases.
As strange as it may be to canine lovers, more people have cats than dogs, and these felines also carry disease. This study and several others show that disease from cats is far more prevalent, and often more serious.
Take cat scratch disease, for example. The bacterial infection, caused by Bartonella henselae, comes from infected fleas and flea feces and is transmitted to humans, often simply by a cat strolling across a food preparation area that isn’t disinfected before food is placed on it. Mostly, the victims of cat scratch disease are children, infected by the scratch, lick or bite of a cat. The pathogen can cause swelling of the lymph nodes and sometime lethal damage to the liver, kidney and spleen of humans.
The CDC estimates that more than 20,000 people can contract cat scratch disease a year, but the federal disease agency could offer no information on the number of deaths.
* A 9-year-old boy from Arizona got the plague because he slept with his flea-infested cat.
* A 48-year-old man and his wife repeatedly contracted MRSA (methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus), which their physicians eventually attributed to their dog. The animal “routinely slept in their bed and frequently licked their face,” the California experts reported.
Kissing pets can also transmit zoonoses. A Japanese woman contacted meningitis after kissing her pet’s face.
But disease can easily be transmitted by your pet kissing you. The study cited cases where a woman died of septic shock and renal failure after her cat, with whom she slept, licked open sores on her feet and toes. In another case, a 44-year-old man died of infection after his German shepherd puppy licked open abrasions on his hands.
Your pet’s food can also be a source of disease. A study published last August in the journal Pediatrics tracked an outbreak of salmonella in 79 people between 2006 and 2008 that was caused by contaminated meat in dry cat and dog food.
Half of the victims were children, who CDC investigators said “might also have played with the pet food and then put their hands — or the food itself — in their mouths.”
The disease also could have come from pets who rolled or played in their feces, where salmonella can stay alive for up to 12 weeks.
Where do our pets they pick up these diseases? Fleas are a likely starting point. And most of your pets will eat the droppings of other animals.
Take a dog to any beach, park or trail through the woods almost anywhere and watch the speed at which it will find something really foul-smelling and dead in which to roll.
Cats usually do their own killing for food and fun. And just think about the infectious bugs that laced the dead and dying rodents, birds and other critters they eat or try to bring into the home.May 15, 2016 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #1152836mik5Participant
If your pet, without your prompting, uses its claws to cut toilet paper on Shabat, you can use the cut toilet paper. (I actually asked this shilah and that was the response I got!)
I am not sure about this. If the toilet paper was muktzah bein hashemashos, it remains muktzah the whole day. Really, a Jew can also tear the muktzah toilet paper with a shinui, in a case of dire need, but if something else (separated tissues, napkins) is available for cleaning, or a goy is available to tear the paper, then…May 16, 2016 1:25 am at 1:25 am #1152837
Really, a Jew can also tear the muktzah toilet paper with a shinui, in a case of dire need
Then it shouldn’t be muktzeh.
You could also use the toilet paper without ripping it.
Besides, even if it would be muktzeh, it would be kli shem’lachto l’issur, and you’re moving it l’tzorech gufo.May 16, 2016 3:16 am at 3:16 am #1152838
One thing is clear from this old thread:
That Moderator-80 guy, he’s some smart cookie!May 16, 2016 3:24 am at 3:24 am #1152839
One thing he failed to mention though in the last post ( obviously copied) is that toxoplasmosis, a very serious disease to a fetus if the mother is exposed while pregnant, is fairly commonly transmitted by exposure to domestic cat feces. If he was an ophthalmologist, like me, he certainly would have mentioned it. (Toxoplasmosis also can effect the brains and retinas of adults, I’ve seen it many times, always in cat owners)May 16, 2016 5:32 am at 5:32 am #1152840Avi KParticipant
DY, its use is not prohibited. It is a useless object (muktze machmat gufo) as you cannot use it on Shabbat (unless you are a Chabadnik – the Ball HaTanya allows ripping toilet paper). The reason why it can be used in a case of dire need (altouugh not ripping on the perforations) is that it is an issur d’rabbanan being that you do not care about the exact size of the paper. Kevod haberiot overrides d’rabbanans.May 16, 2016 6:43 am at 6:43 am #1152841
First, it’s a machlokes whether it would be in the category of muktzeh machmas gufo or kli shem’lachto l’issur (in which case tiltul l’tzorech gufo would be muttar and the only issur would be the tearing, which as you mentioned, could be reduced to a d’rabbanon if not torn on the perforation, but in fact it doesn’t need to be torn at all).
I think that since it’s primary use is one which would be muttar for kavod habrios, it might not be muktzeh altogether. I’ll bl”n look around and see if any of the contemporary seforim discuss it.May 16, 2016 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #1152842zahavasdadParticipant
I do not own a pet, nor do I want one, However the post about diseases carried by them is greatly exaggerated, In fact many people are actually healthier because of their pets. Dogs especially are very social animals and crave attention. Owners of them especially those who live alone tend to have heathier lives.
Its quite soothing to have a dog jump on you to relax and be petted. I just dont want one because I am not in the mood to walk it when its 5 degrees outside and snowing and cleaning up after itMay 16, 2016 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #1152843
Zahavadad. What you say is true. However that does not in the slightest make the dangers “exaggerated”.
What it does do, is to give weight to the other side of the scale of the benefit/risk ratio.May 17, 2016 2:14 am at 2:14 am #1152844
??? ??? says bathroom tissue is not muktzeh since there are permissable ways to use itMay 17, 2016 2:47 am at 2:47 am #1152845
One thing is clear from this old thread:
That Moderator-80 guy, he’s some smart cookie!
And modest too.May 23, 2016 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #1152846Francorachel3Participant
What? The leash must not be taut? I was taught that it must be taut! Which is it????May 24, 2016 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #1152847HealthParticipant
feivel -“One thing is clear from this old thread:
That Moderator-80 guy, he’s some smart cookie!”
Anyone who believes in the Anti-vaxx movement, ain’t too smart!May 24, 2016 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #1152848
Speaking for myself, although I understand and am sympathetic with the motivations of the anti vaccers, I consider their movement to be both incorrect and dangerous.
As for Mod 80, I have a feeling he shares my thoughts regarding this.
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