December 6, 2010 3:29 pm at 3:29 pm #593335
My friend has a great personality but is not at all photogenic…what should she do when asked to provide a photo for her Shidduch profile?(She jokes that she wants to send a pic from ten years ago and write beneath it:ADD TEN YEARS TO THIS.)December 6, 2010 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #907421
Only vain men insist on a photo for a shidduch. She shouldn’t want to marry such vain people.December 6, 2010 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #907422
Listen, it is what it is.
I always attach a photo because that is what is expected. I have been told by countless Shadchanim (and dates) that I look much better than my photo, but what can you do? You do what you gotta do, and leave the rest up to Hash-m.
(And pray that boys dont decide whether or not to go out w you based on a 4×6 image… which they do)December 6, 2010 4:55 pm at 4:55 pm #907423
Why would she marry a boy who bases his decision on a picture?
If the boy says “no” because he didn’t like the pic, then she should be happy she didn’t marry him.December 6, 2010 5:15 pm at 5:15 pm #907424
Find a good photographer who can make her photogenic.December 6, 2010 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #907425
Forget the photo.. have them read some of your posts on the CR, so they can really get a feel for the person you are.
Personaly, I would not consider a shidduch for my kids if I can’t see the person in the real world. Does not have to be a formal intro, but if the person can not get me a visual (at a simcha, at lunch on the avenue), it either means the girl is hermit, or the person doing the intro does not know the girl personaly (my guess, its the latter).
Photos are misleading, and demeaning. As a parent, I’d not ask for, nor supply one.December 6, 2010 5:32 pm at 5:32 pm #907426
Photoshop it to make her look like a model. It ought to serve the bum right for asking for a photo.December 6, 2010 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #907427
I am a girl but still beleive a boy is allowed to ask for a picture and evenm make a decision from it. Why should he waste his time going out with a girl who he wont be able to look at?! Why dissapoint her after a date, rather say no before going out! She doesn’t have to know why he said no!December 6, 2010 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #907428
I guess you believe all you have to offer can be summed up on a 3×5 photo. Sad.December 6, 2010 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #907429
Not i- if a boy is stupid enough to believe that a picture looks exactly like a real live girl, then he should wait to marry a model.
Give the girl a chance and meet her personally.
Or have a family member meet her unofficially(in a grocery, at a wedding etc…).December 6, 2010 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #907430
Not I- did you ever read “The Scar” in Peoples speak? I love that story, I think it brings out the point very nice how not to base a shidduch on looks alone. If you/or anyone else never read it ill recap it if you want.December 6, 2010 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm #907431
Anyone can get an idea of what the person looks like from a picture. Although I personally don’t send pics, I don’t think it’s so terrible.
She’s not being summed up in a 3×5. That’s being provided in addition to lots of other info.December 6, 2010 6:56 pm at 6:56 pm #907432
I have a better idea.. let him marry the photo.
Really, Not I, you (and all girls) deserve better treatment than this. Demand it.. you’ve earned it!December 6, 2010 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #907433
Blinky – Please recap! Its sounds like a great story.December 6, 2010 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #907434
Everyone…thank you.Great advice.
I just thought of THE BEST idea!A book should be published with all the best advice threads from the coffee room.Call the book ….um….”Cookies” and Cappucino…wait,no.Advice From your “Mice”…Whatever you call it,it could be a best-seller,no?Minus the silly arguments,that is.December 6, 2010 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #907435
“I am a girl but still beleive a boy is allowed to ask for a picture and evenm make a decision from it” – not I
IDK, sounds to me like it wouldnt bother her to be judged solely on the pic…December 6, 2010 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #907436
“Minus the silly arguments”
I guess that means I’m on EDITED listDecember 6, 2010 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #907437
Its not exact but this is the gist of the story- So basically there was this young girl who was playing and a group of Arabs who started to chase her. A boy goes over and starts to make the teen chase after him instead, letting the girl escape. She always wanted to know what happened to her savior. Anyway years later this girl goes out with this amazing boy but he had this HUGE scar on his face. She was convinvced that its not going to happen bec. of his scar (even though she had a good time)Anyway she asked him at the end of their first date how he got the scar and he said that he saw a girl being attacked by arabs so he diverted their attention and they came to him and struck him with a wood that had nails sticking out of it and it cut open his face…..Yes they got married!!!!
Obviously the point of the story is hasgacha pratis, but a side point- if she would have seen a picture first she wouldn’t have considered it- its scary.December 6, 2010 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #907439
I know someone who only wanted a thin girl – it was his top priority. Shallow? Maybe. But if that’s what he wanted and saw a pic of a girl who isn’t thin, why should he have gone out with her? It’s a waste of both their times. For the record, he is happily married (to a thin girl) with several children.December 6, 2010 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #907440
I have just been own this road with my daughter. We were getting redd boys and they were asking for a photo, we asked our Rav who told us under no circumstances are we to give a photo. If they will not go out without seeing one and just by the shadchans description then it is not for us. If the shadchan never met the girl and wants to see a photo that is fine but it must be returned.I blamed it on my rav, if the boys mother wants to argue with a rav then over a picture I am not interested in that family.
B”H my daughter marrried the first boy she went out with and she was 19 without the boy seeing a picture.
What I know boys mothers do is find out when the girl who was redd to their son is going to a simcha and they will try to get a look at her while she is at the simcha.December 6, 2010 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #907441
BP Totty…there will be a BLACK MARKET EDITION called “ALL THE EDITED POSTS”!December 6, 2010 8:45 pm at 8:45 pm #907442
Men who marry for looks usually end up with a beautiful witch.December 6, 2010 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #907443
i only want a rich football player….i wanna see a picture and a bank statementDecember 6, 2010 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #907444
I know a guy who only wanted a fat girl. Everyone told him he should look deeper than just looks, but that was his thing and he insisted.
So, he would always ask for a picture. If they refused, he would go out with her.December 6, 2010 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #907445
I like the photoshop idea.December 6, 2010 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #907446
L.Q.T.M.(laughing quietly to myself)December 6, 2010 10:25 pm at 10:25 pm #907447
“The black market edition” 😉
Blinky – great story. In the outside world, there’s a saying, “scars are tattoos with a better story behind it”
Meaning, scars are “proof” of having lived a life in the rough-and-tumble world. True, not everyone gets a nail to the cheek, but a scar from a ball-playing accident or something similar is a testament to the life you led. I suppose its more fitting to tell this to a boy than a girl, but that’s the story.
And yes, I have scars (but no tattoos, thank g-d)December 7, 2010 12:54 am at 12:54 am #907448
I’m a bochur (if the name didn’t give it away). I would never dream of asking for a picture. Personally I think the best response is to draw/print out a female face silouette and write across “your preferred looks here.” Should send the message. If not, there are always male relatives with bats.December 7, 2010 1:03 am at 1:03 am #907449
Are you dating yet? You might be more willing to see a picture if you had someone fly in to meet you who you rejected based on looks after the first date.December 7, 2010 7:52 am at 7:52 am #907452
Anyone that is not currently in shidduchim should not be able to post here. I have been in the parsha for 2 and a half years, and I’m a big picture fan. I may be wrong, but I very much like to think of myself as a boy with depth, a heart of gold, and good Middos. I do not feel comfortable myself that I need to but trust me it has been very helpful. It is an emotional roller coaster, and extremely time consuming. I promise you I’m not looking for a model or anything close to that. But, I do know which look I am comfortable with or not. Your right, a picture does not always do justice, but it can give a good idea.
There is a misconception that ”its just a night”. Its not. Its usually a week event, between planning, thinking about before and after, renting a car, researching places to go, talking to rebbeim. . . Its not so simple.
Please do not judge us till you are in our shoes.
And a tip for the wise, if you are comfortable with your picture, then send it along with your resume. If a boy has a few names to look into that sound great, but one has a picture and he thinks its in his ball park he will look into it first. Trust me.
Hatzlacha to all singles, and iy”h may you all find your bashert very soon!!December 7, 2010 4:04 pm at 4:04 pm #907455
To those of you who have referred to guys who ask for pictures as “stupid, shallow, vain, bums” or whatever other derogatory terms you choose, here’s a couple things you might want to consider before condemning us like that.
1. Not every guy and girl live in the same city, some even live outside of the NY/NJ area (chas v’shalom) and some of those guys and girls are working (chas v’shalom again). So, for some people, just going on one date can be a big expense. Dating is hard enough on it’s own. When you have to spend hundreds of dollars, miss work (although I can’t really say I “miss” it), go through airport security and then you find out that the girl, or guy (apparently now it’s ok to make girls travel for first dates) doesn’t look anything like what you can be attracted to, that, is an unreasonable amount of stress to put on someone. If they saw a picture first, it’s a whole lot easier for everyone.
2. Even when the guy and girl live in the same city, dating is not easy and takes up a lot of time and money. Having to say no to someone after a date b/c of looks, takes just as much toll on a guy/girl as being told no, by the other party (at least it should). Again, if they saw a picture first, it’s a whole lot easier for everyone.
I’m not saying looks are the most important thing, or that you can tell everything about someone from a picture. I am saying that it is an important factor and you can tell from a picture if someone’s looks are not at all what you like. I hate asking for pictures (just asked for one for the first time) and I don’t much like giving out my own picture, but, at least for me, it’s a whole lot better than the alternative.December 7, 2010 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #907456
new2thescene and youdontknowme:
Very well said! And this is coming from a girl!December 7, 2010 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #907457
i have no problem with sending a picture, as long as the guy extends the same courtesy. what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.December 7, 2010 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #907458
youdontknowme- you have a valid point, BUT there are some ppl who ask for pictures for DIFFERENT reasons! Some are local who just want a picture to see if she’s pretty…and analyze every detail of her high school photo, which many times do not reflect the girl today at all!! And them there are some that ask for pictures because their SISTER wants to see if its appealing to HER and just makes it sound as if her brother wants to see it (i actually know examples that happened in both of these cases) And im sure there are other not so kosher reasons also but these are ones i know for sure so as much as what you say may be true i would be hesitant to give out pictures because not everyone thinks the way you do.December 7, 2010 4:38 pm at 4:38 pm #907459
Interesting story. A mother was looking into a girl. She asked one of the references if she had a picture of her friend. So the girl goes to drop one off..
The boys mother was really interested in seeing the friend (in person)!!December 7, 2010 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #907460
“Its usually a week event, between planning, thinking about before and after, renting a car, researching places to go, talking to rebbeim”
Know what? Other than the car rental, the girl goes thru the same kishke-wrencher. Oh, and she’s working full time and/or still in school, (where tests are still given) to boot.
Not sure if you’re working or still in yeshiva, but if its the latter, stop whining. You have a ways to go before you’ve earned that right.
Oh, and one more thing.. do YOU provide a photo, or is it a given that all bochurim are AA++ top of the line?December 7, 2010 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #907461
The difference is if the boy JUDGES from the picture, and he won’t go out with her unless she looks PERFECT, or he just uses the pic to see if the girl look ok enough for him.December 7, 2010 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #907462
i feel personally stood up for. thanks for your post.December 7, 2010 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #907463
blinky: I don’t have a problem with them looking to see if she’s pretty, even if they’re local. Also, she should provide a current pic, not one from high school. As for the sister, and mothers, I agree, it’s ridiculous. I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to send a pic, I just don’t think it’s fair to say that anyone who asks for one is bad.
BP Totty: I don’t see why it matters if new2thescene is working or learning, his point stands and I don’t think he’s whining.
Smartcookie: So, why are you so quick to assume (based on your earlier comments) that guys who say no b/c of a pic are judging or looking for perfection?December 7, 2010 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #907464
BP: I don’t think he was whining about it. He was just pointing out the difficulty. Of course for the girl it is hard as well. For that reason alone girls should insist on sending a picture.December 7, 2010 5:43 pm at 5:43 pm #907465
“I don’t see why it matters if new2thescene is working or learning”
Because being in yeshiva full time is nowhere near as hard as working full time and / or going to college.
No one gets fired from yeshiva from doing a poor job, and last I checked (which was last night) no one “fails” a zman if you don’t pass a test (as there are none).
I should know.. I’m surrounded by boys in yeshiva, whose days (and nights) are filled with loads of discresionary time, and have friends whose daughters work and/or go to school, with scedules that are tougher than mine.
Boys have nothing to complain about. Nothing.December 7, 2010 5:44 pm at 5:44 pm #907466
And as far as the picture goes, I’d possibly be ok with that, if boys were asked to to the same.
Are they? (I somehow doubt it)December 7, 2010 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #907467
BP Totty: I wouldn’t know, I’ve been working for a long time. I would imagine learning isn’t that easy. Anyway, I don’t think he was complaining. He said that dating is not as easy, as “it’s just a night” and that’s true, regardless of whether he’s learning or working.December 7, 2010 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm #907468
I’m going to agree w the boys, sometimes dating can be a little bit of a big deal (we take MUCH longer to get ready!)
But imagine the flip side, the hurt of those girls sitting home month after month without a date! They would love to slave over their hair, makeup, outfit choice!
And for what, because you didnt like a picture?
(BPT, for all the I dont know, MILLIONS of times I’ve been asked for a picture, I have never gotten one in return, ’tis life)December 7, 2010 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #907469
Sac, you get asked for a photo, ’cause its one well worth looking at! The boys, on the other hand…well, that a whole ‘nother story.December 7, 2010 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #907470
Because being in yeshiva full time is nowhere near as hard as working full time and / or going to college.
Yeshiva and learning Torah is harder than working. If there is anyone who shouldn’t be complaining, it is those who are in college or working. The Yeshiva guys should be handed a silver platter for the Avodas HaKodesh they sweat for.December 7, 2010 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #907471
Yeshiva and learning Torah is harder than working. If there is anyone who shouldn’t be complaining, it is those who are in college or working. The Yeshiva guys should be handed a silver platter for the Avodas HaKodesh they sweat for.
This is so funny and wrong I don’t even know where to begin.
I’ll just say you are disagreeing with Rav Moshe Wolfson, who says learning is a much easier lifestyle (since that is the language you understand).
If you want to debate this please start a new thread.December 7, 2010 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #907472
Isn’t it a gemara Asur l’odom sheyikadesh isha ad sheyirena? There is no crime in wanting to be attracted to a potential wife. It is not shallow. It is a metzius. Of course the midos and personality must be there, but if one is totally turned off by the looks, then it is rare that one will go ahead and marry the person.
Most men are attracted to about 90% of women in their age bracket, or we would not have so many halachos like yichud, etc. He just wants to verify that he finds her pleasant.December 7, 2010 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #907473
Invest in a great photographer or great photo editing software. You’ll have lots of dates. Many guys unfortunately, have “lists” longer than their arms and the looks of a girl often make or break who gets the date, all other factors being equal.
At the same time, demand a photo of the young man from the shadchan, it would be very interesting to hear why a young man might turn down such a request.December 7, 2010 11:01 pm at 11:01 pm #907474
“But imagine the flip side, the hurt of those girls sitting home month after month without a date! They would love to slave over their hair, makeup, outfit choice!
And for what, because you didnt like a picture?”
As a working guy who lives OOT, I don’t need to “imagine” it. Not all guys have lists. Yeah, I agree it’s even harder for most girls, but I maintain that seeing pictures makes it easier for everyone.
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