November 3, 2008 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1139023
yanky when my kids are sick i bring them to the pediatrician when i want gun facts i go to the appropriate sources, maybe when your child has a toothache take him to the car mechanicNovember 3, 2008 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #1139024
Eric- Are you afraid to ask your pediatrician this question? Afraid you’ll look foolish
for asking about guns when there are kids in the house?
Did you ever consider that maybe your pediatrician saw victims of gunshot wounds when he/she was a resident?
Why do you think the Pediatric Association put out a statement about this?
Because they KNOW that innocent kids get killed.
I’m not surprised you take this approach; you’re the guy who “enjoys” the drunks on Simachas Torah.November 3, 2008 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #1139025JosephParticipant
c’mon guys, it looks from your screen name your both the same age… be nice!November 3, 2008 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #1139026
Pediatricians ask parents about guns in the home for the same reason they ask whether the child is properly restrained in a car seat or exposed to secondhand smoke, and whether there are working smoke detectors in the home: because these are all factors that affect childhood safety/ mortality.November 3, 2008 9:38 pm at 9:38 pm #1139027
“c’mon guys, it looks from your screen name your both the same age.”
If that’s the case, I seem to have very advanced vocabulary for a toddler. 🙂
(That’s my attempt at humor. The 02 is actually for my birthday, February 2nd.)November 3, 2008 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #1139028
Excellent point, anon!November 3, 2008 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #1139029
you keep ignoring my point try and answer the question if more children die each year from electric shock should we bank electricity listen to your self, your having a knee jerk reactionNovember 3, 2008 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1139030
i was a resident at Cook County Hospital in chicago for 5 years, i saw a LOT of gunshot wounds
almost all of them were perpetrated on an unarmed person by an armed person. same for stabbings.
i never saw an accidental gunshot wound. (i dont mean to imply a scientific study here, take it for what you will, just my experience.)November 3, 2008 11:42 pm at 11:42 pm #1139031
Ok- now no one should own cars because per car, per mile, more people are killed yearly in car accidents then airplane crashes, or any other mode of transportation (except walking). So I want you all to flush your car keys down your toilet because it is a danger to your children! Ask your pediatrician- “how many kids in america are killed in car accidents each year?” Yep- the number will astound you.
Very few children are killed by guns each year- just each individual one is publicized nationally several times by the liberal media to promote gun control. Before making claims read Lapierre and John Lott!!!! They did the research and wrote THE books on the topic. And they were not paid by anyone to reach a certain conclusion.November 3, 2008 11:51 pm at 11:51 pm #1139032
thank you finally some people with seichel havesomeseichel very well saidNovember 4, 2008 3:06 am at 3:06 am #1139033The Queen of PersiaMember
tsgssdk: How can you speak for all gedolim? We asked a very prominent gadol whether or not to get life insurance years ago and he paskend against it. (for us). He is also against this panic to procure passports. And who is to say that a tragedy cannot occur in the “country” of Israel? (chas v’shalom). Nobody knows for sure.November 4, 2008 5:22 am at 5:22 am #1139034
feivel, County is an inner-city hospital. Would you say that your experience there would be typical of all hospitals? Would the ER patient load be similar to that seen at, say, Northwestern Memorial or Swedish Covenant?November 4, 2008 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #1139035squeakParticipant
1) Joseph – you made me laugh in a way I’ve never laughed before on YW. Thank you!
2) Guns: Many people have pointed out that the hype from guns and kids is mainly due to the shock value of it rather than the sheer statistics. Because if it was to go by statistics, then we’d be decrying people with kids and swimming pools (even fenced and locked ones, many kids die per year) or as someone else said, cars. The thing is, cars are too useful to ban around kids, i.e. the benefits outweigh the risks. With guns, it is easy to make the case that the risks outweigh the benefits. But that does not make the argument correct.
3) Insurance: Amongst Jews, it is certainly a minority view (in today’s age) to oppose life insurance (I assume that this is all about life insurance, or should I extend the discussion to disability income, health insurance, liability insurance, property insurance, lost luggage protection, and all other forms of pooled risk?). If your Rav taught you to follow this view and you think that it is a majority opinion or one that you should debate with others, then your Rav only told you half a story. Life insurance IS prohibited by many other religions, since they see it as defying G-d’s will.
I will assume that Queen of Persia is Jew and not an representative of another religion that opposes insurance. Therefore, Queenie should not try to “educate” everyone else about this minority view. I’m sure your Rav didn’t tell you to.November 4, 2008 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #1139036
eric55- it is an uphill battle against illogic that we must band together to bring the truth and facts to the world! The liberal media is so against guns that they will do anything, including stretch facts and lie, to get congress and states to pass laws against them. Oh- did I mention that big anti-gun advocates own them? Diane Feinstein (CA-D) owns one when she has private security! I could go on but there were some who were so anti-gun that when someone “broke into and entered” they took out a gun and shot the tresspasser to save their family. Hmmm.November 4, 2008 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #1139037The Queen of PersiaMember
Squeak: Let me clarify. According to many posts, Life Insurance is a MUST, and any other opinion is WRONG. All I’m trying to say is that there ARE OTHER OPINIONS. Even if they are the minority. And yes, yes, yes! I do agree that it is a minority opinion. But an opinion it is, never the less.November 4, 2008 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1139038yaakov doeParticipant
If and when you all panic and flee, I can pick up a house in in nice heimish community for next to nothing. But I doubt that more than a dozen Yidden will leave the US after the election.November 4, 2008 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #1139042insuranceguyMember
Do you have health insurance.? if yes why then. dont you have betochon that you will be ok?November 4, 2008 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #1139043langhuntMember
A Yid should always have passports for all the family. It is apparently only in USA that not everyone has them. I dont know anyone here in my locality in UK that doesnt.November 4, 2008 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #1139044
no anon the experience there is not the same as it would be at other types of hospitals.
cook county hospital deals with neighborhoods that are much more crime ridden, as you know.November 4, 2008 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #1139045
feivel, thank you for clarifying. So would you say it’s possible that in other hospitals accidental/ self-inflicted gunshot wounds are more common, and that the demographics of these hospitals are more likely to reflect the types of communities in which the posters on this board live?November 4, 2008 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #1139046
feivel, thank you for clarifying. So would you say it’s possible that in other hospitals accidental/ self-inflicted gunshot wounds are more common, and that the demographics of these hospitals are more likely to reflect the types of communities in which the posters on this board live?November 4, 2008 5:48 pm at 5:48 pm #1139047
feivel, thanks for clarifying. So would you say it’s possible that in other hospitals there’s a larger proportion of accidental/ self-inflicted gunshot wounds, and that the demographics at these hospitals more accurately reflect the types of communities in which most of the posters here live? (sorry for the run-on)
By the way, five years at County must have been quite an experience. Were you an ER resident then?November 4, 2008 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #1139048
you sound like a lawyer
yes it is possible
it is even possible that the majority of er visits at those hopitals are from accidental gunshot wounds within the home
but i believe my experience is typical of most ers that gunshot wounds are almost always caused by an armed person against an unarmed person.
it is even possible,and even more likely in my opinion that the percentage of gunshot wounds at these other hospitals (armed upon unarmed) is even higher.
not an er resident
rotating intern, lots of er time for 2 years, while also moonlighting in er
then eye residency, lots of facial GSWs
also spent 2 years majority of time there in medical schoolNovember 4, 2008 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #1139049srf611Member
Queen of Persia : You said you asked your Rav years ago about getting life insurance. Maybe you should ask again, cuz it could be his opinion has changed after all these years. My father was killed at a young age in a car accident just a few days after applying for life insurance. Who in the heck would’ve thought that such a thing could happen to a young man with a beautiful family? I do not wish such a thing upon anyone, but please don’t try to imply to anyone not that one might not need life insurance.
It’s just foolish
About Obama and fleeing the country: Anyone who says they will stay in America with no worries, etc. kind of makes me worried and upset for hearing such a hashkafa (or lack of).
Even if we can’t live in Eretz Yisrael just yet, at least we should have some sort of desire or plan to move there sometime in the future.
Someone who says they bought their home in America with their hard earned money and plan on staying there is really digging their own grave. I’m sorry to be so blunt, and I sure hope there isn’t gonna be a second Holocaust, but I wish to say the following.
In Germany, there were MANY Jews who owned beautiful comfortable homes which they bought with their hard earned money. Within just a few years they were dragged from these homes to be taken to their deaths. These homes were confiscated by the Germans or anyone wishing to take a Jews home without any hard earned money. Only Hashem can keep us secure.November 5, 2008 5:06 am at 5:06 am #1139050
To all those who have their passports- you were right! You planned correctly! Get your bags ready because Biden said Obama will win and during his first term a major crises will happen in America. The first part came true =( so now the second part must be. Biden must be the prophet for the messiah…November 5, 2008 7:29 am at 7:29 am #1139051skatesMember
Everyone needs to seriously relax!! world has never had a place safe for Jewish people! we depend on Hashem for everything and that includes safety and protection. So I am not convinced running to Eretz Israel is the solution- it has its dangers as well, especially since its surrounded by its enemies who are waiting for the right moment to strike!
We need to have bitachun in Hashem and not run off anywhere without serious evaluation and YES…asking your Rov for the correct guidance!November 5, 2008 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #1139053
OKay, so now that he won, which one of you guys went out and bought a gun?November 5, 2008 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1139054yoshiMember
Yanky55 – Better yet, who here actually “fled” America?November 5, 2008 5:10 pm at 5:10 pm #1139055squeakParticipant
I’m hoping that with everyone fleeing, I’ll be able to afford a house in Boro Park.November 5, 2008 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #1139056
If we told you we had a gun, that would invite BATFE into our home and if we said we didnt, then we are inviting people to rob our home…November 5, 2008 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #1139057
First of all, how would they find “havesomeseichel”?
Second, I believe you can buy a shotgun w/o any license. You can get a handgun with a license. It’s perfectly legal. So why would anyone come after you?November 5, 2008 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #1139058
I don’t believe a single one of you big talkers will buy a gun or flee America.November 5, 2008 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #1139059
Maybe some people already are using their second amendment rights and OWN ALREADY????
Ever thought of that?
And about the liscences, it all depends on where you live. Some places it is easier to use your RIGHT while in others the government is working harder to stop your constitutional right…November 5, 2008 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #1139060
Yes, I thought of that. Okay, so I will rephrase my question. How many of you guys either own a gun (and now feel a bit more safe with a black president) or plan to go out and buy one?November 6, 2008 12:01 am at 12:01 am #1139063yoshiMember
No need to go out and buy, my guns are my muscles! OOHRAH!!!November 6, 2008 12:14 am at 12:14 am #1139064
Time to rephrase again, sorry. Maybe STATE LAWS prevent them from doing so? They would want to, but where they come from may be an issue. Like NY and CA have really strict gun laws, as do many other states, and now North Dakota does as well (or maybe it was south dakota that outlawed lead bullets for hunting on tuesday? all bullets for hunting have lead in them!) Maybe their age gets in the way? There are many reasons why one may not be able to own a gun- they are making it harder and harder to own what is constituionally your right to own! We can’t pick and choose constitutional rights!
So maybe many people want to own guns but are legally unable to!November 6, 2008 5:24 am at 5:24 am #1139065shkoyachMember
Now that the dude is prez… how about we go buy some heavy duty sefarim and siddurim and put them to good use. Shteig away……….. POW! or we could always revert to the good old way they protected themselves b4 guns… Anyone have any nice swords around the house (hey any laws against obtaining those????) I am sure our dear cousins in the mideast will have a nice supply for us relatives! I think I’ll stick with my first idea though 🙂November 7, 2008 5:32 am at 5:32 am #1139066
“now that the dude is prez” Thanks, that made me laugh.
havesomeseichel, why are you concerned with ND’s or SD’s law against using lead bullets on Tuesdays? Do you plan to buy a hunting gun to protect yourself, or did you actually want to go hunting?
srf611, I suppose I have a lack of hashkafa according to you. I don’t think it’s wise to make a blanket statement like that. I’m not staying in America because I have a comfortable home, I’m staying there because I don’t see a need to be worried. (Actually, I’ll still be in Israel for Obama’s first four and a half months in office, but then I’ll return to America.)November 9, 2008 1:15 am at 1:15 am #1139067Pashuteh YidMember
Jfem, I personally don’t think that just because feminists are posting on YW it is any reason to flee America. However, there may be others who disagree.November 9, 2008 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #1139068srf611Member
Jewishfeminist, I was responding to a post that some Sarah poster made about staying in America right in her home that she bought with her hard earned money.
All I am saying is that as Jews, even if we don’t currently live in Israel (I happen to live there) we should have a desire to one day move there. To have the attitude, “I am staying right here where I planted myself in MY country of America” can be disastrous.
I am not saying Obama will cause us to flee by bringing terror upon the Jews. Who knows what will be?! I am just saying, it’s a matter of attitude and perspective. And that is that we should all want to come here. Period.November 10, 2008 3:46 am at 3:46 am #1139069
jewishfeminist- 1. once they start outlawing lead bullets, then they can take away the guns because those are not necessary (since you cant shoot without bullets). By taking away the right to bare arms in one state, it makes it that much easier to be taken away in the other 49.
2. Who said that I do not live in those states that are affected by these insane laws?
3. Who says that I may not own or want to own a gun- it is my right!
How else can we protect our families if the government wont do it for us? In Israel, many terrorists were stopped because CIVILIANS HAD GUNS ON THEM!?!?!? How many in America were not stopped because they were outlawed?
Israel- Merkaz Harav, the few times the tractors were driven by Arabs to kill Jews…
When every second counts, the police are only minutes away.November 10, 2008 7:18 am at 7:18 am #1139070
havesomeseichel, you said before that “all bullets for hunting have lead in them”. I have never owned nor used a gun and know nothing about them, but from your phrasing it sounds like bullets that are not used in hunting guns do not have lead. Therefore, if you own a gun to protect yourself and not to go hunting, you should not be affected by this law even if you do live in one of the Dakotas.
Furthermore, if the law only applies to Tuesdays, there is no way the government could confiscate hunting guns. What would they do, force citizens to drop off their guns at an office every Tuesday morning and pick them up again on Wednesday morning?
(I searched the Internet and could find no reference to or information about this law in the first place. Your recollection seems shaky, as you couldn’t remember which state it was. Is there a possibility that you are wrong about this?)November 10, 2008 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #1139071
No- You misunderstood me. Almost all bullets have lead in them (some have steel which is also forbidden). This new law just took away the right to hunt,period, as you cannot have any bullets for the guns. Many liberals allow sports-guns but now that they are forbidden, they will just take away all of them! Once they have a reason to take it away, especially now with such a liberal government.
The law doesn’t only apply to Tuesdays. It started on last tuesday, november 4–ELECTION DAY! “(or maybe it was south dakota) that outlawed lead bullets for hunting on tuesday? “November 10, 2008 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #1139072
Jewish feminist- to clarify- it was North Dakota. I found it by googling “lead ammunition ban+Dakota” It was not in the first few, but after searching a bit I found it.
And North Dakota said that “lead poisoning from bullets used in game hunting have not found any health risks….” Just a scare to prevent people from having access to guns and bullets!November 10, 2008 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #1139073
Ah, I see. Sorry about the misunderstanding.November 10, 2008 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #1139074
Lead shot has been banned for all waterfowl hunting in the US since 1991 (because of concern about the lead affecting surviving waterfowl). Nevertheless, people are still legally shooting waterfowl. That’s because there is lead-free hunting ammunition available; it’s made of copper, which is more expensive than lead. So a ban on lead shot is not a ban on hunting after all.
The ban on using lead shot for hunting is, as you wrote based on concerns regarding leadNovember 10, 2008 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #1139075
Sorry, clicked enter too soon; here is the rest of my post:
The ban on lead shot (for hunting deer and other land game) was, as you wrote, based on concerns regarding lead exposure in those who ate shot venison. A study released last week by the North Dakota Department of Health & the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) found that those who ate a lot of wild game tended to have higher blood lead levels than those who did not; more recent wild game consumption correlated with higher blood lead levels.
Even if you argue that the ban on lead shot is unnecessary, the ban is intended to protect those who eat wild game from lead exposure. It’s not an attempt to take away ammunition, since lead-free ammunition is available.November 10, 2008 10:38 pm at 10:38 pm #1139076
the ban on lead in bullets was begun to protect people. they did a multi-million dollar very large study, multi-institutional, funded by the federal government and National Institutes of of Health, regulated by the Federal Drug Administration, and monitored by the CDC.
it was found that when people were shot with lead bullets they often developed very serious health problems as well as a high frequency of death.November 10, 2008 10:51 pm at 10:51 pm #1139077
Good point. I can’t find a source for this, but I remember reading that many of those who died in Civil War battles succumbed not to the actual impact of the shots but to the effect of lead poisoning.
The ban I was referring to was on lead shot used for hunting.November 10, 2008 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #1139078charliehallParticipant
Why are Jews worried about hunting?
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