Presidential Pecking Order

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    Listing of post-WWII President’s, from best to worst, by the noted Presidential Historian and Political Analyst, yours truly:

    1. Ronald Reagan

    Ronaldus Magnus; brought the Soviet Union to its heels, and won the Cold war; largest economic boom after taking over the mess Jimmy left with hyper-inflation; a good indicator of his greatness was simply the venom expressed by the media and liberal elites against Magnus (blaming him for everything from homelessness to AIDS – all of which magically disappeared on Jan. 20, 1993 after 12 years of “Reagan/Bush”); when will we see his like again?

    2. Harry Truman

    Courageously nuked the Japs, ending WWII, and saving countless American lives.

    3. Dwight Eisenhower

    Victorious General of Allied Forces; Brought US into post-war world.

    4. Richard Nixon

    Ended Vietnam War. Foreign Policy genius (ie established American relations with China with his famous visit); Supplied Israel with large quantity of emergency arms during ’67 war; loses points for Watergate (without that incident, would be recognized as one of America’s great President’s.)

    5. George H. W. Bush

    Spearheaded NAFTA (+); Broke no new taxes pledge (-).

    6. Gerald Ford

    Helped nation in post-Watergate healing process.

    7. John Kennedy

    Bay of Pigs fiasco; ruined the noble tradition of men wearing hats (with his hatless inauguration); gets some points for handling Cuban Missile Crisis.

    8. Lyndon Johnson

    Greatly mismanaged Vietnam War.

    9. Bill Clinton

    Impeached; scandal; scandal; scandal; disbarred.

    10. Jimmy Carter

    Need anything more be explained regarding Jimmy?; or 20% hyper-inflation; or the Iran hostage crisis; A forewarning what happens when a “peanut farmer” becomes President. How much worse will the “community organizer” be?

    (W.’s term is yet incomplete, hence his exclusion. Yet considering that the media and liberal vitriol against him challanges that of Reagan, it is certainly a good sign.)

    anon for this

    Thanks for sharing.


    joseph, the pecking order would be

    1. Vice president (president of senate) – Dick Cheney

    2. Speaker of house – Nancy Pelosi

    3. president pro tempore of senate – Robert “KKK” Byrd y”s

    4. Secretary of State – Condoleezza Rice

    5. Secretary of the Treasury – Henry Paulson

    6. Secretary of Defense – Robert Gates

    7. Attorney General – Michael Mukasey

    8. Secretary of the Interior – Dirk Kempthorne

    9. Secretary of Agriculture – Ed Schafer

    Skip Secretary of Commerce – Carlos Gutierrez (non-natural)

    Skip Secretary of Labor – Elaine Chao (non-natural)

    10. Secretary of Health and Human Services – Mike Leavitt

    11. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development – Steve Preston

    12. Secretary of Transportation – Mary Peters

    13. Secretary of Energy – Samuel Bodman

    14. Secretary of Education – Margaret Spellings

    15. Secretary of Veterans Affairs – James Peake

    16. Secretary of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff

    what you have is your top ten list of best presidents. very differant. but great non the less. and i do agree, bush jr will be either 2nd or third. though i do take up that the kennedy cuban missle crisis was a good thing for him. if not for russia thinking, and rightfully so, that kennedy did not have the stones to attack them, it never would have happened. also, nixon ended teh war in vietnam in defeat. he should have stuck it out and won!



    The only problem with #4 is that Nixon was not President in 1967. Johnson was. Nixon was elected in 1968 and began serving in 1969. Perhaps you meant that Nixon sent emergency arms during the Yom Kippur War in 1973. Even then, he and Kissenger had to be begged to send them – only the threat that Israel would arm and use nuclear missiles got Nixon to send the weapons.

    You neglected to mention that Ford pardoned Nixon, which was a huge mistake. Nixon should have been prosecuted.

    Eisenhower is viewed as a weak President. Being a “Victorious General of Allied Forces” does not make him a good President.

    Chag Samayach!



    What you are referring to is the presidential line of succession, which is based on the Presidential Succession Act of 1947. I gave Kennedy some points for the Cuban Missile Crisis, nut nonetheless he was a mediocre (as well as short-served) President. Are you of the opinion that Kennedy handled that crisis well?


    Thanks for the correction. Yes, it was the ’73 war that Nixon/Kissinger supplied Israel with emergency arms during the war, to their enormous credit. I’m glad Ford issued the pardon, and it has been deemed the appropiate course in retrospect by the vast majority of historians (who are liberal as is.)


    Oy, Joseph. Is negative media attention really such a key indicator of a good president? I doubt that even your beloved talk radio brainwashers would agree with you there. I find your list amusing, particularly the placement of JFK.

    This is why “for the people, by the people” scares me so much.


    a guten moed, all.

    MMM….On some matters I am starting to like joseph-ok- don’t go overboard- only on SOME matters! Anyone who calls Ronald Reagan “Ronaldus magnus” is a faithful listener to a certain radio program (rhymes with sosh) and is on the “right” side of the argument! congratulations!


    squeak, No, negative media attention is absolutely meaningless. Hence, W will be recognized as a great President, despite his harsh media critics. JFK was a nothing, and only is held in any esteem due to the method he departed life, despite what your brainwashing liberal blogs may have read.

    rabbiofberlin, I’m glad you are “right” at least some of the time! 🙂


    joseph, my mistake, i thought you were saying teh way he handles it was good. he handled it horribly, and the only reason it happened was because russia thought of him as weak. (sound like obama anybody!?)


    Presidents, once assasinated, are seen like many posthumous speeches/awards ceremonies, where the person could not have done a thing wrong in his life.

    about W, when 9/11 happened would anyone have belived that no terrorist would have attacked us in *7* years??? I certainly thought that we would be the subject of more attacks. Nuclear, biological, chemical….

    And we are WINNING the war in Iraq, the surge is WORKING (but the liberal media wont admit it…Obama, in his most recent position on Iraq-which contradicts his earlier statements-, said the war is working…

    and many of the issues like the economy and the high budget on the military is due to CLINTON’s administration (who should be in jail for federal crime of perjury)


    havesomeseichel – Even 9/11 was a direct result of Clintonian inaction for 8 years (remember it occured merely 7 months after he left office). Clinton failed to respond to the American Embassy bombings in ’98, other than sending a bomb on a drug factory to distract attention from Monica, and utterly did nothing in response to the terrorist bombimg of the USS Cole in 2000.


    jospeh: you better watch out. people who cross the clintons wind up dead!

    James McDougal – Clinton’s convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr’s investigation.

    Mary Mahoney – A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

    Vince Foster – Former White House counselor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock’s Rose law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.

    Ron Brown – Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown’s skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.

    C. Victor Raiser II & Montgomery Raiser – Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

    Paul Tulley – Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton as a “Dear friend and trusted adviser”.

    Ed Willey – Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in Virginia of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

    Jerry Parks – Head of Clinton’s gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park’s son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

    James Bunch – Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a “Black Book” of people containing names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

    James Wilson – Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

    Kathy Ferguson – Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson died in May 1994 was found dead in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she was going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

    Bill Shelton – Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancee.

    Gandy Baugh – Attorney for Clinton friend Dan Lassater died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

    Florence Martin – Accountant sub-contractor for the CIA related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. Died of three gunshot wounds.

    Suzanne Coleman – Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

    Paula Grober – Clinton’s speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.

    -Danny Casolaro – Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparent suicide in the middle of his investigation.

    Paul Wilcher – Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 “October Surprise” was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

    Jon Parnell Walker – Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993 Was investigating Morgan Guarantee scandal.

    Barbara Wise – Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.

    Charles Meissner – Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

    Dr. Stanley – Head Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton’s advisory council personally treated Clinton’s mother, stepfather and brother.

    Barry Seal – Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, Death was no accident.

    Johnny Lawhorn Jr. – Mechanic, found a check made out to Clinton in the trunk of a car left in his repair shop. Died when his car hit a utility pole.

    Stanley Huggins – Suicide. Investigated Madison Guarantee. His report was never released.

    Hershell Friday – Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

    Kevin Ives & Don Henry – Known as “The boys on the track” case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. Controversial case where initial report of death was due to falling asleep on railroad track. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.



    Joseph- thank you for further proof that Clinton was not all that he has claimed to be…

    Oh, and he should have sat in jail for more then just perjury. How about conspiracy to commit crimes… like foster and others…

    anon for this

    Do you really believe the Clintons had all those people killed? Really really? Because if they did, why didn’t they just get rid of Obama the same way? And Ken Starr, for that matter?

    Sometimes I wonder how people can believe nutty anti-semitic conspiracy theories, for example that the Jews control the financial markets (as in _The Protocols of the Elders of Zion_) or that the Jews caused the 9/11 attacks. Besides an unhealthy dose of anti-semitism, adhering to these theories requires one to believe the most unlikely, improbable ideas. But when I see the beliefs held by posters to this board, whom I’d expect to have above-average intelligence, I no longer wonder about this.


    Firstly, Obama was only in the way of Hillary’s career (and not such a big stumbling block as she can just run in 2012 and can stay in the Senate meanwhile) and wouldn’t get them into FEDERAL PRISON.

    Are you too blind or closed minded that you cannot bear to hear something bad about your beloved former president? He definetly did commit perjury but we had a liberal government who wouldnt convict him. Just check the videos of his testimony. Oh, it all depends on the definition of is, isn’t it?

    Aren’t liberals suppossed to be “open minded, non judgmental, eager to hear new points of view”? Oh yeah- only those that agree with their preconceived ideas.


    anon for this: do i really believe the clintons had them ALL killed? no, but i find it very ironic that everyone who starts to have information against them that may incriminate them, they wind up dead. how many people do you know who was killed or committed suicide. they know over 25!! don’t you think that is a little suspicious?

    and btw, us controlling the financial markets isnt too nutty. we were the bankers in europe. this is a fact. now there was a reason for it. it was because the goyim didnt allow us into many fields of work, and they knew if we were the bankers, they can renege on their loans, and no one would enforce it. the 9/11 attacks is a ridiculous one. and we had a huge part, and still do, in the movie making in the us, and in the newspapers as well. in ny alone, the times, sun (olev hashalom), and the daily news are all run by jews. (yes, the idiots running the times are jino’s, jews in name only!) if anything we should be proud! we did this all in 3-4 generations!

    anon for this

    Yes, I believe Bill Clinton committed perjury, but I don’t believe he had any of those people killed. I also don’t believe all the Jews working in the WTC got a call to stay home on 9/11, or that the buildings were imploded; or that the diary of Ann Frank was a forgery. But seeing what apparently intelligent, fairly well-educated people on this board believe, I know longer why so many people do believe these things.


    First thing- I have actually heard someone claim that the Jews all were involved on 9/11… and that the buildings were imploded! A reason they might think so is that they dont want to blame the poor, underprivileged, discriminated against palestinians whom they love so much.

    Second- I am not saying that the Clintons murdered all of these people. Maybe conspiracy to commit murder? Assisted suicide? Convinced them that if they dont commit suicide their lives will be destroyed??? They had something to do with at least a few of them… how can someone commit suicide with bullets to the back of their head? and a few bullets at that?Once they shot once, they would be unable to shoot again! I dont belive in many conspiracy theories, but still- there is something to be said about knowing over 25 people who were killed or commited suicide! I dont think I know one person who was murdered on the streets or was a victim in a “random shooting” or commited suicide! And they had close connections with over 25!


    anon for this: you have now said this statement twice “But seeing what apparently intelligent, fairly well-educated people on this board believe, I know longer why so many people do believe these things.”

    care to share some examples of what people believe?

    and the fact that you dont see an alarming amount of murders and suicides around the clintons is a bit shocking! you probably are one who believes obama is god gift to humanity is isnt a marxist type socialist!


    Mariner, I am sure that “anon for this” isnt as oblivious to facts as you might think. Of course he realizes that Obama is a full fledged marxist- it is so obvious! “redistribution of the wealth” means welfare and starts to give me the shivers….communism….in America…after the cold war…

    anon for this

    Regarding the list posted by mariner, it isn’t accurate. Vince Foster is probably the best known name on the list. Ken Starr led a 3-year-investigation of his death & concluded that he was not intoxicated or drugged, there was no sign of a struggle, and the body had not been moved. He did not leave a suicide note, but did leave a draft resignation letter in his briefcase in which he described the stress he was undergoing due to recent bad press against him. Ken Starr was not exactly a friend of President Clinton, and had no reason to cover up any crime Clinton may have committed; certainly over the course of such a long investigation he would have found any evidence of murder if it existed.

    According to Delaware’s top medical examiner, Stanley Huggins died of viral myocarditis & bronchial pneumonia, not suicide. Similarly, Barbara Wise’s death was ruled to be a result of severe health problems, including liver ailments, perhaps resulting from her alcoholism. The bruises were likely a result of bone marrow treatments.

    Ron Brown and 34 others died when his airplane crashed into a mountain while landing in Croatia, due to what the Air Force investigators called a “failure of command” and “aircrew errors”. The hole in his skull did not have a corresponding exit wound, and no bullet or bone fragments were found; it was likely the result of the crash.

    These are just a few examples; please see for a more thorough analysis of these deaths, including the deaths of the “boys on the track”.

    havesomeseichel, if you investigate carefully you’ll see that this list of murders/ suicides is simply not accurate; therefore the number of supposed suicides is much smaller than originally thought. But actually I would expect that the Clintons would have been connected in some way to many more people who’ve been murdered and/ or committed suicide than have you and I, simply because they know so many more people, who in turn know many people, etc. Please keep in mind, too, that many of the people on the list are not directly or not at all connected to the Clintons either, except due to the fact that the Clintons allegedly arranged their deaths.

    I think it’s clear from what I’ve explained above that the list cited isn’t accurate. And I am surprised that so many people uncritically believe that it could be true, simply because they hear it from someone or see it on the internet. It simply doesn’t make sense that a couple who have been so thoroughly investigated could have gotten away with so many murders. And anyone who investigates these or similar lists would quickly find out that they aren’t true.

    I’ve wondered for some time about why people believe things that just don’t make sense, without thoroughly investigating the facts on their own. Why do people even today believe Jews kill Christian/ Muslim children for their blood, when Jews are not even allowed to consume animal blood? Why do some people believe that the US government covered up the existence of UFOs and alien abductions, or that the moon landing was faked? Why do some people believe that the 9/11 attacks were somehow orchestrated by the Israeli and/ or American governments, when these attacks hurt both of those governments?

    I think that people believe ideas that make no sense and actually conflict with provable facts because these ideas somehow resonate with their own deeply held beliefs or prejudices. If someone believes, deep down, that the US government is evil and manipulative, it’s possible for him to also believe that the government would cover up the existence of UFOs and alien abductions in order to avoid frightening the people, or fake the moon landings in order to impress them. And of course we know that anti-Semitism is a “halacha b’yadua”, so it’s not surprising that people hold beliefs about Jews that don’t make sense. And if people believe that the Clintons committed serious financial/ legal crimes for which they haven’t been sufficiently prosecuted, and are evil people who wouldn’t stop at murder, it’s possible for them to uncritically accept the list of names cited in the previous post as “Clinton murders”.

    Now, I’m not saying that President Clinton was not a flawed president; no president, no human, is perfect and in some ways he was more flawed than many. Indeed, there are valid criticisms of the Clinton administration. But this list of names isn’t it.

    Regarding Senator Obama, I’m not sure how disagreeing with this list of “Clinton murders” makes me a supporter of Obama. Even if I were claiming President Clinton was the greatest president ever, which I’m not, surely you are aware that the Clintons are not close personal friends of the Senator?

    anon for this

    havesomeseichel: by the way, I’m a woman.


    anon- “He” is just a term for an anonymous person. I wasn’t being sexist.

    I checked Snopes and they said that some of the deaths are still being investigated, after 10-20 years. “The FBI is still investigating the deaths…suspicious”.

    This means its a) a cold-case and they have no leads

    b) they cannot release the truth…. or wont. so they say its #a.

    Also, some of the deaths were ruled accident, like the two boys on the train tracks. But the medical examiner made many mistakes in his past, and he said they overdosed and fell asleep. So his testimony cant be trusted.

    anon for this

    Regarding Henry & Ives, the boys on the track, you are correct in stating that Dr. Fahmy Malak ruled that they overdosed & fell asleep, and that a grand jury concluded he was wrong & the boys were dead before they were place on the tracks. But if you’d carefully read the article on snopes, you’d have seen that Katherine Brightop testified on this matter before a US magistrate, She said that her ex-boyfriend, Paul Criswell, told her that he & three others beat the boys to death & placed the bodies on the track because the boys tried to steal cocaine from them. So their deaths were, indeed, drug-related, just not Clinton-related.

    Please read the article carefully & post which deaths, specifically, you still think are suspicious.


    havesomeseichel, “he” is not just “a term for an anonymous person”. It specifically means a male, just as in Hebrew we have the word “hu” which means a male. For space and clarity, many people use the male tense to refer to a mixed group in English; in Hebrew the male can actually grammatically mean a mixed group. (This is why I find the Gemara’ statement “b’neichem v’lo bnoteichem” so puzzling. But that’s a discussion for another time.)

    Nobody is accusing you of being sexist, but just know that it is not always acceptable to use the word “he” to refer to a person of unknown gender, and never acceptable to use it to refer to a woman.


    The Economist (a highly respected publication from London) magazine always uses the term “he” when referring to an unknown party.

    Btw, I dare suggest your “puzzlement” about the Gemora stems from the Torah preclusion of women learning Torah Shel Baal Peh, of which the Gemorah is part of. See this old thread for a longer discussion on this issue:


    Thank you Joseph. It gets so taxing to write he/she, him or her, his or hers…. I generally write in the male tense unless I knew for a fact the audience or to whom the comment was directed towards. I could assume to use the feminine for “jewishfeminist” or “semgirl” or other obviously female people. I mean in no way to be insulting to anyone’s gender….

    anon for this

    havesomeseichel, don’t worry, I wasn’t offended. I just wanted to make sure to mention it because it seems that many people on this board prefer to know the gender of the people they’re addressing, and I don’t want people to think I’m misleading them.

    If you’d care to respond to my previous post, I’d like to know what you think.


    To Joseph: Some corrections of your information:

    Ronald Reagan did not bring down the Soviet Union – it collapsed of its own weight and failures. (Richard Nixon’s sales of wheat to the Soviet Union in the ’70’s helped sustain the Soviet Union and prolong its life.)

    The inflation/stagflation of the late ’70s was defeated by the policies of Paul Volker, the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board who was appointed by President Carter. (Alan Greenspan recently acknowledged that part of the reason for the current failure of the US financial system was inadequate regulation of complex financial instruments. The lack of regulation of these instruments was a result of the misguided idealogy championed by Ronald Reagan.)

    I do not recall any media blaming Reagan for AIDS. Reagan expressed concern for its victims. Have you?

    Richard Nixon became president in 1969; he could not have supplied arms to Israel in the ’67 War.

    Richard Nixon took more than 4 years to end the Vietnam war and lied about his plans in 1968 to get elected. Many of the deaths of Americans and all others in that war occurred after he became president.

    Richard Nixon built his early career as a red-baiter, demonizing China. His “genius” was reversing his own mistakes. If a Democrat had wanted to open relations with China, Nixon would have led the charge against the Democrat who tried.

    Richard Nixon committed crimes for which you or I would be jailed.

    “Japs” is a disrespectful term. Find another way to refer to the people of Japan, who were created by Hashem.

    Eisenhower was not president when he led Allied forces in WWII.

    I do not recall whether GHW Bush supported NAFTA while he was president, but he did not succeed in enacting it during his administration. It was enacted during the Clinton administration, as a result of Clinton’s efforts to enact it.

    JFK – Hats? Bay of Pigs fiasco: bad. Iraq war: good?

    LBJ – Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act – no big deal?

    Clinton – economic boom – no big deal? Yes, he was a disgrace to himself.

    Carter – brokered the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel, which has lasted 30 years. Lately, Carter has lost his mind, but what do you expect – he’s older than McCain.



    A large reason that the Soviet Union collapsed, were Reagan’s policies and actions. For example, Star Wars, initiated by Reagan, scared the dickens out of the Soviets causing them to increase their military spending, directly causing their economic collapse.

    Reagan’s supply side economics gave the U.S. economy an enormous boost causing the largest employment gains to date (at the time.)

    The media skewered Reagan blaming him for the spread of AIDS and anything else they could attempt to tarnish him with.

    I corrected myself regarding Nixon in a subsequent comment. It was the ’73 war that Nixon heroically supplied rapid emergency arms to Israel in the midst of war.

    Nixon inherited the Vietnam War from Kennedy and Johnson. He honorably ended it.

    Nixon established diplomatic relations with China, where previously the U.S. had only diplomatic relations with Taiwan. Historians widely credit Nixon for establishing U.S.-Chinese relations.

    If you or I committed such so-called crimes, no one who have batted an eyelash.

    The Japs maliciously and treacherously surprised attacked us in Pearl Harbor. They are worthy of nothing but contempt.

    Eisenhower was the General of all Allied Forces in Europe during WWII. He deserves high credit for our victory there.

    George H.W. Bush not only supported NAFTA, he negotiated NAFTA and brought it about. Its ratification process was ongoing as he left office.

    Kennedy & Johnson, bad.

    The economic boom came subsequent to the Republican takeover of Congress in ’94. Congress has far greater control over the economy than does the President.

    Carter negotiated the so-called “peace” treaty at Camp David indeed. Some “peace” it has been. And that includes the Egyptians. Clinton negotiated Wye. Thankfully it never came to fruition, or it would have been a greater disaster than Camp David.





    Bush II





    Bush I




    I would put Bush Jr. quite close to the top, probably number two.


    Is this supposed to be a list of all the greatest presidents or just the greatest within peoples lifetimes?

    If it is the former, we should list Washington and Lincoln as well.

    Also the actuall descision and command to attack Pearl Horbor probably rested only with a few individuals at the top of the Chain of command in Imperial Japan.

    I would not blame all Japanese for the descisions of those few anymore then I would blame all Jews for what some corrupt Israeli politician does.

    Now as a country we were at war with, it was certainly right and proper to vilify them as much as possible and view them as the enemy, to be smashed to bits and to violently hate.

    But now that the war is over, to hate their descendents would be like the antisemites who lie about what “the Jews” supposedly did to their guy who falsly claimed to be G-d, and then blaming Jews today for it even if it were true (and it wasn’t and isn’t).

    Also remember some of them helped save many Jews escaping from the nazis in Europe who eventually made their way to Shanghai China which was controlled by the Japanese till the end of the war (even though after about 6 months or so as I remember a video about it saying, the Japs did put the Jews into a type of Ghetto at the insistance of their allies, the Nazis, Yerach Shmo).


    Clearly Truman is #1. He won the war with Japan, stopped Soviet-supported aggression in Korea, created the Marshall Plan and NATO which stopped Soviet expansion in Europe, and recognized the State of Israel. He was helped by some sympathetic Republicans who didn’t believe in obstruction for obstruction’s sake.

    Clearly Bush 43 is at the bottom. He got the US into two never-ending wars, one of which is now the longest war in US history. He turned a huge budget surplus into a massive budget deficit with nothing to show for it except those wars. His economic policies led first to a huge decline in the value of the US dollar and then a complete economic collapse in his last months in office. And his Road Map for Peace demanded essentially nothing of Israel’s enemies other than words. There were no successes to balance off these disasters.

    One can argue about the relative position of most of the rest but it should be noted that the three most antagonistic to Israel were (in order of decreasing antagonism) Eisenhower, Ford, and Bush 41. (Carter’s hostility didn’t manifest itself until after he left office; while in office he was actually better than Ford.)

    Johnson gets credit for tipping Israel off to the planned Arab attack in 1967, not responding to the USS Liberty attack, and making Israel into a US ally. I would rank Ford as second from the bottom as he had no foreign or domestic policy successes, was incredibly hostile towards Israel, and offered no response to a terrorist attack carried out on the streets of Washington DC by agents of a hostile foreign government (but one with a lot of apologists in Washington).


    It was the ‘other’ liberals, not Bush who “got us into the wars”.

    Bill Clinton for example could have gotten Bin Ladin and thus we never would have had an attack on the Twin Towers we had to respond to.

    And Bush inherited a recession from Clinton, it may have been just starting the month before Bush took over, but Bush fixed it then we had 911 which was hard on the economy which Bush also led us through recovery from.

    It was the liberal media that even before Bush took office, started talking down the economy and kept it up all through Bush’s term trying ti scare people into not buying and whe they finally responded it put people out of work who then couldn’t pay their mortgages and thus the downward spiral started caused by the liberal media, not Bush.


    Agree with fabie. Now that Bush Jr. retired since the OP was composed, I would place him around second on the list.

    As far as being friendly to Israel (a different question than the OP), I would rank Truman, Nixon, Reagan, and Bush Jr. as the four best while putting Jimmy “the peanut farmer” Carter as the absolute worst.



    Bush II: The economy tanking under his administration and his lack of fiscal restraint are negatives.

    Eisenhower: Yes, he basically threatened Israel in 1956.

    Truman: He took over during WWII from a hugely popular president at a tumultuous time.

    Johnson: He took over for the assassinated Kennedy just as the Vietnam war was ramping up.


    I would say that those peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan are worthless, because all they did was give Egypt an dJordan respectively breathing room tgo build up thdeir weapons and armies after Israel had devestated them.

    They did not actually make Israel safer, in any way.

    Egypt still has terrorist traffiking and smuggling tunnels bringing in terrorists to Israel and Jordan has had terrorist shooting into Israel from within their territory.

    Egypt’s attitude is that in any next wars between the Arab

    countries and Israel Egypt will side with the Arabs, and not just “remain neutral”.

    Jordan I believe, has the same attitude.



    Is this supposed to be a list of all the greatest presidents or just the greatest within peoples lifetimes?

    As per the original post, “…post-WWII Presidents…”


    Eisenhower was the only president to actually threaten Israel.

    Carter has become an apologist for Arab terror, but he wasn’t this way while in office.

    Truman and Nixon were the presidents who helped Israel at the time it was in the greatest danger. Ironically, they were both anti-Semites personally.

    I would put Bush II before Reagan.

    In 1981, the U.S. joined the rest of the world in condemning Israel’s raid that destroyed Iraq’s nuclear reactor.

    Bush II regularly defended Israel in the U.N., including against the Goldstone report.


    Truman and Nixon were the presidents who helped Israel at the time it was in the greatest danger. Ironically, they were both anti-Semites personally.

    ICOT: Which brings up an interesting, and pertinent, side-point. You can never trust a nochri no matter how good a “friend” he is. In front of you they’ll be your buddy buddy, but when the chips are down (and behind the doors of their private clubs) don’t count on them. We saw this vividly during the holocaust when our Polish and German and Slovakian (etc.) “friends” and “neighbors” suddenly turned on us and joined hand-in-hand with the “German enemy” (in the case of the Poland, Slovakia, Ukraine, and Croatia) to liquidate and annihilate the Jews. When the opportunity to kill the Jews presents itself, we have very few “friends” indeed.

    (Sure there were notable exceptions, but the population at large was largely in cahoots or at most indifferent to the Nazi’s final solution. And this includes the population of German-occupied countries. The Nazis never had any trouble finding quislings amongst the occupied locals when it came to killing Jews.)



    While you are right about the countries you mention, there were “notable exceptions” that shows that not all nochrim are out to do us in. For example, Finland did not let the Nazis touch even a single Finnish Jew — even though the country was allied with Hitler through most of the war.


    There is no question that Eisenhower was absolutely the most hostile President as far as Israel was concerned. There was a real possibility of a US invasion of Israel in 1956; the US did invade Lebanon two years later.

    Lyndon Johnson has not been given credit for the events of 1967. The US had not been an ally of Israel up to then (see 1956), but Johnson tipped off Israel to the fact that Egypt was about to attack, and didn’t respond to the attack on the USS Liberty. Furthermore, his flip to being supportive of Israel (but not settlements) is a policy that has been maintained with no significant change by his eight successors.

    Carter deserves condemnation for his repeated unfair blasts at Israel, but those didn’t start until he left office. While President he was actually an improvement over Ford. As mentioned by another commenter, Bush 41’s policy became a lot more benign once Shamir was replaced by Rabin despite the prominent presence of noted anti-Semite James Baker in the administration.


    I can only try,

    Bush 43 may have been a better President for Israel than for the US. Unfortunately, he was the US President and not the Israeli Prime Minister and in the former role he had no successes whatsoever and had many failures.


    I can only try,

    The assassinations of Orlando Letelier, a Chilean exile, and Ronni Karpen Moffit, a US Citizen Jew (not a Chilean citizen) were part of an international terrorist ring called Operation Condor that were supported by multiple authoritarian governments in Latin America. Another target of Operation Condor was Ed Koch. The parallels with what we face today are scary. The Ford administration did squat as a response, fortunately the Democrats had a huge majority in Congress and under the leadership of Ted Kennedy slapped sanctions on the Chilean despotism, which finally gave up power in 1990. (One of the first things that the new democratic Chilean government did was to pay reparations to the US government and to the families of the victims. I look forward to Arab governments doing the same to the families of the victims of the terror they helped to sponsor, but I suspect I may be waiting a long time for that.)

    anon for this

    charliehall, I agree with ICOT that Bush 43 did not “get us” into the war in Afghanistan. Pursuing Osama bin Laden was the correct choice; I think that if sufficient troops would’ve been sent after him he might already have been captured & killed. Unfortunately Bush instead chose to engage in a war with Iraq, which had no significant connection to the 9/11 attacks. As a result, there were not enough troops to do the job in Afghanistan properly.

    For decades, Iran & Iraq had been at war with each other. While destructive to the two countries, this war meant that neither country could pose as severe a threat to others. The US war in Iraq weakened that country so Iran could concentrate on building its nuclear arsenal and threatening Israel & the US. And since the US was already fighting in two other Muslim countries, Ahmedinijad knew that it would not attack Iran.


    charlie: Finland is by far the exception to the rule.

    Bush Jr. was one of the best U.S. President’s, even without consideration of his almost unprecedented strong pro-Israel administration.

    anon: The Iran-Iraq war ended long before the 2003 Iraqi War. Ending Saddam Hussein’s rule over Iraq was absolutely the correct, proper, and timely thing for the United States to do. (Even if 9/11 never happened. Don’t forget how many times the U.S. came close to war with Iraq under the Clinton Administration — which at the end of the day didn’t have the necessary resolve to take on Saddam’s repeated provocations.)



    The treaty with Jordan was more of a recognition of facts on the ground than a breakthrough. Israel and Jordan had already had good relations for several years before its signing.


    There certainly were and are exceptions. Relatives of mine survived the war while hidden away by chasidei umos haolam.


    Finland was an ally of Germany only by necessity, due to Soviet aggression, invasion, and theft of its territory. There was never a declaration of war between Finland and the U.S., and while Britain and its commonwealths did declare war on Finland, it was a formality more than anything else, intended to pressure Finland against Germany. The only allied country that Finland fought was the USSR.

    I do hope the Flatow family, the Klinghoffer family and others that sued various hostile Arab countries and groups get to collect something for their losses.

    anon for this

    All done.

    Gut Shabbos.


    I can only try;

    So that provision wasn’t added.

    Now, what can anyone do if the other Arab states attack Israel and Egypt in violation, joins them anyway?

    If Israel had not signed that treaty, the Egyptian economy probably would have collapsed from trying to build up, to keep fighting Israel, and Israel would have had far more land by keeping the Sinai (on maps I have seen it looks to me like at least twice, Israels entire present, land mass).

    This was why Sadat said “I feel sorry for Begin, we got all this land back, and all he got was a piece of paper”.

    anon for this

    volvie, if removing Saddam Hussein was the right thing to do, perhaps we should also consider regime change in North Korea. After all, many millions more are suffering in North Korea than were in Iraq. Also, if the Clinton administration “lacked the resolve” to attack Iraq, what’s your opinion regarding Bush 41, who didn’t finish the job either?

    I know that Iran & Iraq were not actively fighting, but the two countries were definitely not at peace, and the possibility of war tempered each country’s nationalistic ambitions to some extent.

    ICOT, I agree that this consequence was not intended but it should have been foreseen. And domestic opposition to foreign incursions isn’t the only reason why a US attack on Iran isn’t likely. The main problem is that because the US is already fighting two other wars, they simply don’t have the troops to do it, unless a universal draft is reinstated.


    We *should* initiate regime change (with military action if necessary) in N. Korea, if that objective can be achieved. Yes to Iraq and yes to N. Korea. But I think Iraq was a greater priority and it was wise we eliminated Saddam first. America had a greater national interest in ridding the world of the Butcher of Baghdad than in Kim Jung mentally-Ill. Thank You President Bush 43!

    And, indeed, President Bush 41 can be faulted for not finishing the job in Iraq when we had a beautiful chance to do so in 1991.

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